Well, the Penguins have an old as dirt PP specialist coming to camp on a PTO, with an outside shot to stick as a 7th defenseman.

The Flyers have an old as dirt PP specialist coming to camp who is being counted on to play big minutes, like he did last year.

The Penguins' general defensive depth is just fine. The only issue is going to be solidifying the 2nd pair, but they have Cole, Pouliot and Dumoulin to choose from.
- hardnosed

Streit still put up some good #'s doing it. If it were up to me he gets traded at the deadline for picks.

Cole and Dumoulin strike me as pretty big question marks as far as playing effective 2nd pair minutes for a full season. Cole was good last year for you guys though so maybe he is more of a sure thing.

The Flyers have the greatest defensive prospect pool ever assembled in the modern era and no other team will be able to compete with them by 2020.
- jfkst1

Umberger 2 years left at 4.5 per
Vinny 3 years at 4.5 per
Streit 2 years 5.2 per (decent player but not at 5.2 per!)
Macdonald 5 years!!! at 5 per
These 4 together make more then Cosby and Malkin combined.... Will be at least 2-3 years before Phily is relevant again as a cup contender...... as far as d prospects ... they re hit or miss... look at the Pens the last few years... What is Pouliot? What is Dumo? ...Nurse and Reinhardt in EDM? Pulock on long Island? Who knows???

I mean, I've mostly just been focused on PIT and PHI but yeah the Jackets are not in a great position on defense.

I meant more along the lines of Mattaa is coming back from some pretty nasty injuries/surgeries and may take some time to acclimate. By no means is he unproven, you're absolutely right.
- Mordecai

Murray, who projects to be CBJ's 1D next season, has missed a ton of time the last two years. CBJ has also finished in the bottom half of SA and GA the last two seasons. And they have suffered fewer injuries on the defense than Pittsburgh has over that time so don't use the injury excuse.

Umberger 2 years left at 4.5 per
Vinny 3 years at 4.5 per
Streit 2 years 5.2 per
Macdonald 5 years!!! at 5 per
These 4 together make more then Cosby and Malkin combined.... Will be at least 2-3 years before Phily is relevant again as a cup contender...... as far as d prospects ... they re hit or miss... look at the Pens the last few years... What is Pouliot? What is Dumo? ...Nurse and Reinhardt in EDM? Pulock on long Island? Who knows???
- Brianandr1

Doesn't matter. There is a future Orr, Coffey, Lidstrom, and Chelios waiting in the Flyer's system. All other defensive prospects will look like AMac in comparison.

Murray, who projects to be CBJ's 1D next season, has missed a ton of time the last two years. CBJ has also finished in the bottom half of SA and GA the last two seasons. And they have suffered fewer injuries on the defense than Pittsburgh has over that time so don't use the injury excuse.
- jfkst1

Weren't you just arguing with me about projections on unproven players? Why is Murray suddenly their #1D? What had he proven to be given that title other than being drafted really high?

It's not a excuse, just something to consider . I get what you're saying.

Doesn't matter. There is a future Orr, Coffey, Lidstrom, and Chelios waiting in the Flyer's system. All other defensive prospects will look like AMac in comparison.
- jfkst1

Now you're just being silly.

Weren't you just arguing with me about projections on unproven players? Why is Murray suddenly their #1D? What had he proven to be given that title other than being drafted really high?

It's not a excuse, just something to consider . I get what you're saying.
- Mordecai

He's not entirely unproven like every single one of the Flyers' prospects. He's played well in the NHL. And yes, if healthy he is their best dman. The rest are best suited for the 4D spot or lower.

He's not entirely unproven like every single one of the Flyers' prospects. He's played well in the NHL. And yes, if healthy he is their best dman. The rest are best suited for the 4D spot at best.
- jfkst1

You act as if I labeled the kids as the next 5 generational dmen to enter the league. I said that the flyers have an insane pool of d prospects.

That was it. Sorry if my word choice got you riled up.

I even went on to agree that not all prospects (especially dmen) pan out as projected.

But when you have 5 of them, I think it's safe to assume that at least 1, probably 2 will become legitimate top 4 men with the potential to be top 2.

You act as if I labeled the kids as the next 5 generational dmen to enter the league. I said that the flyers have an insane pool of d prospects.

That was it. Sorry if my word choice got you riled up.

I even went on to agree that not all prospects (especially dmen) pan out as projected.

But when you have 5 of them, I think it's safe to assume that at least 1, probably 2 will become legitimate top 4 men with the potential to be top 2.
- Mordecai

D prospects are tricky and usually take longer to develop... and are often sheltered from the other teams top guys early on... again what is Pouliot or Nurse? both are projected to be top 4, even top 2... Will they?
Forward prospects that can score find the NHL faster and "work on the d as they go"

Letang played on the 2009 cup team as 21 year old... 3rd round pick with a lot to learn in the d end... but he was 5-6 d man playing sheltered minutes... he s a success... failure to become a solid to4 is much more common

1976
The Flyers are a bottom 9 and 6 defensemen away from being able to spell playoffs. And our future is just fine despite actually putting effort into being a contender every year. We have 2 future NHL starter goaltending prospects and a talented, dynamic young defense with 2 future all world talents that are both 21. We have Sprong and in 5 years trading Letang, Kessel, Malkin and even Crosby will bring back multiple first round picks and high end prospects. At the end of the Crosby and Malkin reign we might have 2 bad years before we are right back at contender again. When was the last time the Flyers had true contender status? The 90's? How bitter and jealous can you Flyer fans be?
- Dcoms

2. The number of times Pittsburgh tanked the season. On purpose.

As for the future of the Flyers, we'll see how it goes.

Yup, you don't sound bitter.

2. The number of times Pittsburgh tanked the season. On purpose.

As for the future of the Flyers, we'll see how it goes.

Yup, you don't sound bitter.
- wolfhounds

Talking tank - 66 was targeted but it saved the franchise - twice. It wasn't overly successful but it has cemented ice hockey in the place it should be.

Now if you want to head down that road let's talk early to mid 70's. Now had the league sanctioned games properly then would the Flyers have won their cups? Had physical assault on the ice been stopped, would the bullies have won their cups?

So some tank (some more than others - looking at you Buffalo & Edmonton), & some break social laws (& some may argue that they still do for games against a certain team ). So what's worse, the Pens tanking for their saviour or a team that just fights & bashes the poop out of their opposition to win (both are part of history lessons but you guys just love bringing 1 of them up ALL the time! ).

So bring 1 up bring them both up.

I'm not surprised where Ryan had fleury he hasn't been shy about his thoughts about him. I personally would not trade fleury for holtby, mason, or bob. I would for Schneider and hank.

Talking tank - 66 was targeted but it saved the franchise - twice. It wasn't overly successful but it has cemented ice hockey in the place it should be.

Now if you want to head down that road let's talk early to mid 70's. Now had the league sanctioned games properly then would the Flyers have won their cups? Had physical assault on the ice been stopped, would the bullies have won their cups?

So some tank (some more than others - looking at you Buffalo & Edmonton), & some break social laws (& some may argue that they still do for games against a certain team ). So what's worse, the Pens tanking for their saviour or a team that just fights & bashes the poop out of their opposition to win (both are part of history lessons but you guys just love bringing 1 of them up ALL the time! ).

So bring 1 up bring them both up.
- Aussiepenguin

boston was no different at that time. Actually hockey then was way more emotional and reactionary unlike todays nhl where we have staged fights and the like. Back in the 70 the flyers get the most attention to the rough stuff...but every nhl team was similar to the ways the flyers played. It was just the generation of the game.

2. The number of times Pittsburgh tanked the season. On purpose.

As for the future of the Flyers, we'll see how it goes.

Yup, you don't sound bitter.
- wolfhounds

Don't forget sitting Crosby one of the last games of the season and because they wanted to lose and not have to play the flyers in the first round. I now see why.

Talking tank - 66 was targeted but it saved the franchise - twice. It wasn't overly successful but it has cemented ice hockey in the place it should be.

Now if you want to head down that road let's talk early to mid 70's. Now had the league sanctioned games properly then would the Flyers have won their cups? Had physical assault on the ice been stopped, would the bullies have won their cups?

So some tank (some more than others - looking at you Buffalo & Edmonton), & some break social laws (& some may argue that they still do for games against a certain team ). So what's worse, the Pens tanking for their saviour or a team that just fights & bashes the poop out of their opposition to win (both are part of history lessons but you guys just love bringing 1 of them up ALL the time! ).

So bring 1 up bring them both up.
- Aussiepenguin

and lets be on point here as well. The pens were going bankrupt and threatening to move so the league stepped in and gave the team a hand out and made them who they are now. Odd how a huge fan base and loyal fans completely throws away a team because they aren't winning and then all of a sudden they become relevant again and the fans come back. The pens are also acting like the flyers of old in trading away picks and young talent on the hopes of winning...now.. remember your team has 4 very large and long contracts eating up a third of your cap. kinda hard to keep this going on that spending.

and lets be on point here as well. The pens were going bankrupt and threatening to move so the league stepped in and gave the team a hand out and made them who they are now. Odd how a huge fan base and loyal fans completely throws away a team because they aren't winning and then all of a sudden they become relevant again and the fans come back. The pens are also acting like the flyers of old in trading away picks and young talent on the hopes of winning...now.. remember your team has 4 very large and long contracts eating up a third of your cap. kinda hard to keep this going on that spending.
- jmdodgeser4

Agreed on the latter part (I cannot say what social wealth existed back in those days to support a team), & I'm sure nearly everyone on here as Pens fans want to win but don't want the selling off of the future. As Ryan has pointed out many times there are smarter ways to do things & hopefully that ideology will have its place in future moves. Fortunately for us the moves made this off season 'appear' to have a solid team off the next 4-5 years health prevailing (& our young D stepping up).

Winning definitely makes a fan base grow, & having an organisation that gives a damn has a wonderful effect on those fans.

boston was no different at that time. Actually hockey then was way more emotional and reactionary unlike todays nhl where we have staged fights and the like. Back in the 70 the flyers get the most attention to the rough stuff...but every nhl team was similar to the ways the flyers played. It was just the generation of the game.
- jmdodgeser4

What are the other nicknames given to the violent teams you mention - serious question as I don't know?

What are the other nicknames given to the violent teams you mention - serious question as I don't know?
- Aussiepenguin

I am not sure but if you watch the documentary on the broad street bullies we only beefed up our ability to fight due to boston and the rangers steam rolling our team physically. We only adapted to what other teams were doing, we just did it better at the time and since we won the cups back to back it sticks to the team. Nobody was complaining when the flyers whipped the crap out of the Russian team. Odd.

Agreed on the latter part (I cannot say what social wealth existed back in those days to support a team), & I'm sure nearly everyone on here as Pens fans want to win but don't want the selling off of the future. As Ryan has pointed out many times there are smarter ways to do things & hopefully that ideology will have its place in future moves. Fortunately for us the moves made this off season 'appear' to have a solid team off the next 4-5 years health prevailing (& our young D stepping up).

Winning definitely makes a fan base grow, & having an organisation that gives a damn has a wonderful effect on those fans.
- Aussiepenguin

We have always had the mentality of winning now even when our roster was really never cup caliber even with our additions. We dryed up our minor leagues and have been able to get lucky on a few picks to keep us mediocre and if things went well we would do well in the playoffs. Like in 2010...that was a crap pile of a team coming together at the right time and lots of luck. Im thrilled we are finally trying to put a team together through the draft and im fine with a two bads years to right the ship now rather then try to patch some holes with vets with high salaries and unable to keep our young emerging players because of the cap. We have horrid contracts especially the likes of vinny,amac, and umberger. the only one of those that will prolly be around awhile is amac. I don't see umberger past this year..buy out. and vinny I would be shocked if he doesn't terminate after this season or retire especially if he sits for awhile during the season. Im shocked he didn't terminate tis year and go to a team that would welcome his ability as a third line center. Either way we will emerge from this cap hell within two years especially with our young d looking to take a spot or two. L scheen comes off the books this year and streit is def movable. Amac..not a chance..this russain guy isn't signed more then a year, who knows what to expect from him...

Tanking - Flyer fans' own little version of Godwin's Law.

Tanking - Flyer fans' own little version of Godwin's Law.
- hardnosed

Like Pens' fans bringing up the 70s.

Regardless, the season is close to starting, and it should be fun and interesting to see how both teams perform with all the changes made.

Like Pens' fans bringing up the 70s.

Regardless, the season is close to starting, and it should be fun and interesting to see how both teams perform with all the changes made.
- wolfhounds

I only mention that due to the history you guys seem to bring up a lot.

Really I just had a look at some recent blues & fair dinkum you blokes should ask some questions about what you want to do?? Flyers Caps had some good examples - Symonds holding Erskine while Lecavalier throws a right, just to name 1.

Like Pens' fans bringing up the 70s.

Regardless, the season is close to starting, and it should be fun and interesting to see how both teams perform with all the changes made.
- wolfhounds

Am I on a Flyers' blog and just don't know it or something?!? I'm sure you can get a lot of play with "tanking" talk over on your own.

I only mention that due to the history you guys seem to bring up a lot.

Really I just had a look at some recent blues & fair dinkum you blokes should ask some questions about what you want to do?? Flyers Caps had some good examples - Symonds holding Erskine while Lecavalier throws a right, just to name 1.
- Aussiepenguin

Simmonds was very upfront about that in after game interview. Erskins turned down Simmonds went after a scorer who lets face it cant fight and went to his mates side. I don't blame him for it. Unlike when rinaldo took out letang and everybody just stood around.

Simmonds was very upfront about that in after game interview. Erskins turned down Simmonds went after a scorer who lets face it cant fight and went to his mates side. I don't blame him for it. Unlike when rinaldo took out letang and everybody just stood around.
- jmdodgeser4

Good for Rinaldo. It was a real turning point in the season for Philly...