Bill Meltzer: Roster Battles, Systems, Gostisbehere, Prospects and More

Seems as though there's a different vibe around camp this year. B Schenn seemingly performing really well.

Schenn is coming off a 47 point season where he bounced around playing 3 different positions.
Did he have that bad a season?
Yes, he could have produced more being on the 1st power play unit, but it seems like Umberger, & Lecavalier are getting a longer leash because of the contracts.
Seems if Schenn can't play where he's most needed, (LW), he's not considered a part of this teams future.

Bill Meltzer: Roster Battles, Systems, Gostisbehere, Prospects and More
- bmeltzer

can someone please get the Pope to bless the teams

FWIW, here is how I think the roster shapes up.

Forwards
I really think they are just trying to light a fire under Brayden Schenn, as he seems to often disappear for long stretches of time. From what I've seen, he's been much better than Sam Gagner and I think he will replace Gagner in the lineup for opening day.

In regards to VLC, I understand the respect thing and I recognize that he still has a shot and can probably be an asset on the powerplay, but his skating looks pretty much the same as last year and that is a big red flag. If Hakstol wants to play an uptempo, pressure the puck in all 3 zones type of game, I can't see Vinny in the lineup. I think he's in the press box come opening night.

So, my best guess is the opening night forward group will be:
Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Umberger-Laughton-Schenn
VDV or Porter-Bellemare-White
2 spares: Vinny and Gagner

Either Porter or VDV, along with MacDonald will be waived and sent down
Obviously all bets are off if someone is dealt.

RE the D
The top 6 looks pretty set. I think L Schenn will get traded if there is a deal to be made that won't cost the Flyers any additional assets, nor require them to take a bad contract back. Because Luke is in his final year, I could see the Flyers agreeing to retain some salary to get a deal done.

If Luke isn't traded, then Manning likely gets waived and sent down. If for some slim chance he gets claimed (which I feel is highly unlikely), they have enough call up depth in Allentown, so I don't think its a big deal. Either way, I expect them to open up with 14 forwards and 7 D.

Of course trades and injuries could complete alter their plans.

Schenn is coming off a 47 point season where he bounced around playing 3 different positions.
Did he have that bad a season?
Yes, he could have produced more being on the 1st power play unit, but it seems like Umberger, & Lecavalier are getting a longer leash because of the contracts.
Seems if Schenn can't play where he's most needed, (LW), he's not considered a part of this teams future.
- puckhead17

I really think they are just trying to motivate the kid and make him bring it every shift, every game. IMO, he's been much better than Gagner.

I really think they are just trying to motivate the kid and make him bring it every shift, every game. IMO, he's been much better than Gagner.
- BiggE

I am motivated to see the Schenns moved

Nothing better to read on a Sunday morning than a nice hockey article. Thanks Bill

If Umberger and Vinny are in the top 9, Gagner's spot in the lineup is safe for now, and the 4th line is set then doesnt that imply BSchenn will be a healthy scratch on opening night?

I get the vibe that the Flyers will sell low on B. Schenn, and he will become a 25/60 player elsewhere. He's got his warts, but he's been bouncing around from Center/Wing, I'd like to see him left at one position for a full season and see how he does.

I think Laughton should make the roster, as Ghost should have, but because of sunk costs like VLC, L. Schenn, Macdonald etc... they will likely start the season in the AHL.

If Umberger and Vinny are in the top 9, Gagner's spot in the lineup is safe for now, and the 4th line is set then doesnt that imply BSchenn will be a healthy scratch on opening night?
- Feanor

It would, except I really don't see Vinny nor Gagner in the top 9 or in the lineup at all based on what I've seen so far. Maybe they see something different in practice, but from what I've seen Gagner has been pathetically weak on the puck and is useless in both the neutral and D zone. In Vinny's case, his skating is weak, and while he can be effective on the pp, he seems to be a big liability at ES.

I really think they are just trying to motivate the kid and make him bring it every shift, every game. IMO, he's been much better than Gagner.
- BiggE

Strange how he gets the "tough love" act, and Courturier doesn't.
No offense I love Courturier, but it seems like they are affording him the contract extension, and the patience, whereas Schenn is not.
We struggled scoring goals last season, and a 47 point scorer is placed on a 5th line?
And once again we have 6 comfortable centers playing on 4 lines. Seems like this every year.

I get the vibe that the Flyers will sell low on B. Schenn, and he will become a 25/60 player elsewhere. He's got his warts, but he's been bouncing around from Center/Wing, I'd like to see him left at one position for a full season and see how he does.

I think Laughton should make the roster, as Ghost should have, but because of sunk costs like VLC, L. Schenn, Macdonald etc... they will likely start the season in the AHL.
- PLindbergh31

If he's moved & becomes a 60 point player elsewhere, it may be from playing in a comfortable position, (C or RW).
None of those positions are available here on scoring lines.

Strange how he gets the "tough love" act, and Courturier doesn't.
No offense I love Courturier, but it seems like they are affording him the contract extension, and the patience, whereas Schenn is not.
We struggled scoring goals last season, and a 47 point scorer is placed on a 5th line?
And once again we have 6 comfortable centers playing on 4 lines. Seems like this every year.
- puckhead17

Couturier is the much more well rounded player. When Schenn isn't producing offense, he brings basically nothing to the table. Couturier, OTOH, is the team's top defensive forward and best penalty killer, nor does he have the luxury of playing on a pp unit with Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek and Streit to pad his stats.

Last year, at ES, Schenn had 11 goals and 28 points, while Couturier at ES and Shorthanded had 14 goals and 31 points. This is pretty impressive when you consider that Couturier started most of his shifts in the D zone, faced the other teams top line on a consistent basis and was saddled with 2 injured and ineffective wingers for most of the season.

Re-signing Couturier over Schenn was a no brainer.

Yeah, BiggE, that's what I was getting at. I have no idea what they look like in practices but in the games Vinny and Gagner looked mediocre at best at ES. At least with Umberger you could see how much better his skating is.

Yeah -- I don't get it. From the games I've seen, BSchenn has kept his feet moving, has scored, has not been a defensive liability, and generally been in position.

I think Bill is right on the money, though, with the potential "framing" of VLC. I have never seen a contract act as such an albatross. It has simultaneously placed a stranglehold on the club, tarnished the clubs reputation for free-agents (as last season, at times it seemed Coach Chief was humiliating a respected player) and stunted the career of young players -- forcing players (like Schenn, but not just him) to play all over the lineup.

None of this is Lecavalier's fault. I mean, I will never fault a player for signing a contract that's offered. But watching him play, it seems like he's the only one out there that doesn't realize that he just doesn't have that extra je ne sais quoi anymore.

Yeah -- I don't get it. From the games I've seen, BSchenn has kept his feet moving, has scored, has not been a defensive liability, and generally been in position.

I think Bill is right on the money, though, with the potential "framing" of VLC. I have never seen a contract act as such an albatross. It has simultaneously placed a stranglehold on the club, tarnished the clubs reputation for free-agents (as last season, at times it seemed Coach Chief was humiliating a respected player) and stunted the career of young players -- forcing players (like Schenn, but not just him) to play all over the lineup.

None of this is Lecavalier's fault. I mean, I will never fault a player for signing a contract that's offered. But watching him play, it seems like he's the only one out there that doesn't realize that he just doesn't have that extra je ne sais quoi anymore.
- Moose_15

EDIT: from first line from the games I've seen "this preseason"

Thanks Bill. I would give Gagner a chance. He has to adapt to a new team, and the last game that he played in, he had a nose for the puck. Do I think that he will score 100 goals? No, but, he should chip in some timely goals.
I have no problem sending Scotty L down to play with the Phantoms. He would be a good call up, and another season in the minors could help him. However, I do realize that his time to join the Flyers is coming up soon.
VL should just part ways with the team. I don't know if Hexy or VL is holding up this transition, but it would benefit both if they would just admit their mistake, and move on.
RJ looks much better, and can chip in some timely goals as well. Plus, he can work on the PK, and improve things over last season.
B. Schenn has looked good in my opinion, but he put himself in a make or break situation. His brother Luke looks like he is ready to move on. I hope that Hexy can find a trade partner.
Two thumbs up for Zepp, and I hope that he catches on with some team this season; either in Europe or the NHL.

I think the simple answer is what bill was talking about they are positioning themselves to try and make Gagner and Vinny move able without attaching an asset to them. I actually believe hextall thinks umberger can help this team or he would of never traded for him. I think opening night you could see vinny Gagner and Schenn all in the lineup.

Raffl G Jake
Read coots simmonds
Gagner Vinny Schenn
Umberger Bellemare white

Vdv and Porter sit, McDonald waived and Laughton sent down.

Now if they can't position or coax an offer on these guys and Laughton has a torrid stsrt to ahl. I believe they'd do the right thing and bench the scrubs and bring Laughton up.

Strange how he gets the "tough love" act, and Courturier doesn't.
No offense I love Courturier, but it seems like they are affording him the contract extension, and the patience, whereas Schenn is not.
We struggled scoring goals last season, and a 47 point scorer is placed on a 5th line?
And once again we have 6 comfortable centers playing on 4 lines. Seems like this every year.
- puckhead17

Coots out scored BSchenn at ES despite getting 40% OZ starts to 58%, and is a great defender so that's why he has the extension and a secured spot in the ES lineup.

Schenn had a good year on the Top PP unit so I assume/hope he will stay there.

Top 6 are set and I have no idea how the remaining lines will look. What I do know is I have no desire to Umburger/Vinny/Ganger line. In fact I still don't see how Vinny cracks the 12 unless an someone is injured.

Couturier is the much more well rounded player. When Schenn isn't producing offense, he brings basically nothing to the table. Couturier, OTOH, is the team's top defensive forward and best penalty killer, nor does he have the luxury of playing on a pp unit with Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek and Streit to pad his stats.

Last year, at ES, Schenn had 11 goals and 28 points, while Couturier at ES and Shorthanded had 14 goals and 31 points. This is pretty impressive when you consider that Couturier started most of his shifts in the D zone, faced the other teams top line on a consistent basis and was saddled with 2 injured and ineffective wingers for most of the season.

Re-signing Couturier over Schenn was a no brainer.
- BiggE

Yeah, I see all you points, your correct the numbers don't lie.
And I do agree Couturier brings more to the table in regards to 2 way play, and producing without the consistency from his wingers.
Not taking a stance on Schenn, over Couturier, not at all.
But bouncing around the lineup like he has, and playing a position not comfortable for his game hasn't helped his cause.
I don't think we have a plethora of offensive weapons either to justify dumping him to a 5th line.

Yeah, I see all you points, your correct the numbers don't lie.
And I do agree Couturier brings more to the table in regards to 2 way play, and producing without the consistency from his wingers.
Not taking a stance on Schenn, over Couturier, not at all.
But bouncing around the lineup like he has, and playing a position not comfortable for his game hasn't helped his cause.
I don't think we have a plethora of offensive weapons either to justify dumping him to a 5th line.
- puckhead17

Coots could produce a lot more points with pp1 time also. But flyers are trying to build a pp 2 around him. If you flip their roles and make coots pp1 and Schenn pp2 I think the 10 point discrepancy would be swung bit time in coots favor

Top 6 are set and I have no idea how the remaining lines will look. What I do know is I have no desire to Umburger/Vinny/Ganger line. In fact I still don't see how Vinny cracks the 12 unless an someone is injured.
- MatveiDmitrii

I honestly think they've just been trying to showcase Vinny during the preseason out of desperation. I cant see him starting.

Coots out scored BSchenn at ES despite getting 40% OZ starts to 58%, and is a great defender so that's why he has the extension and a secured spot in the ES lineup.

Schenn had a good year on the Top PP unit so I assume/hope he will stay there.
- Feanor

Again, not bashing, or criticizing Coots, I love his game.
I'm the one who's always said that his 2way play clearly justifies his modest production, compared to maybe a Briere, who could easily score 60 points, but was considered a poor back checker.
Again, not bashing Briere, but he was not a good defensive player.
I just think Schenn's, all things considered, getting a bit of a raw deal.
He's on the 5th line, whereas Lecavalier is not?