Look. There's GIFs of John Scott scoring and celebrating goals on the internet too. What's your point?
- Victoro311

Look. There's GIFs of John Scott scoring and celebrating goals on the internet too. What's your point?
- Victoro311

- blacksheep1

Yall is funny

- Victoro311

"The stretch pass is also easier for lesser skilled defensemen as it is less time they have to handle the puck and make quick accurate passes in unison with other players."

This is counter-intuitive RW. Instead of an easier/shorter pass to a team-mate, you're suggested lesser skilled players are then somehow competent enough to string a tape-to-tape pass over a much greater distance.

"It's almost as if the players don't really care about these one or two games suspensions the league hands out. The Department of Player Safety is completely failing at their one intended reason for existence."

News Flash - players don't care and neither should we. For decades, the NHL was widely successful as a self-policing league; remove the instigator and F "Player Safety Office". You pointed out a failure of the current system. Dub's 1-game, cost him $31K, but failed to deter OTHER players from engaging in similar behavior. This is the players don't care angle. If Dub's was forced to drop the gloves and got his faced bashed-in however, it could possibly change his mind going forward. Retribution pays off.

Unfortunately, the goon mentality of the NHL does not help grow the game to casual fans in Amer. How savage. Don't like it; don't watch it.
- out_of_market

This...You are also leaving your unskilled Dmen much more exposed to odd man rushes. Its safe to say the stretch is better suited for better Dmen. But the Pens guys are pretty terrible.

Whatever, RW dreams of a roller hockey version of the NHL.

- smellmyfinger

This...You are also leaving your unskilled Dmen much more exposed to odd man rushes. Its safe to say the stretch is better suited for better Dmen. But the Pens guys are pretty terrible.

Whatever, RW dreams of a roller hockey version of the NHL.
- sammy87

Ok. What should the Pens be trying to do? The value in making short passes is that they can join the rush and provide puck support. Making one good initial pass is easier than the alternative of having them in close puck support. I'd rather the Pens be susceptible to big plays defensively than play conservatively like they have been.

I missed where the blogger titled this blog Oduya assaults Parise. So yeah.
- smellmyfinger

Malkin'g goal, there aren't words to express how sick that was. A back hand bell ringer? Are you kidding.

To all the head and neck, throat crosschecking, horrible. And even more horrible is the Mickey Mouse NHL and it's 'referees' that allow it!

F the NHL and it's owners.

"The stretch pass is also easier for lesser skilled defensemen as it is less time they have to handle the puck and make quick accurate passes in unison with other players."

This is counter-intuitive RW. Instead of an easier/shorter pass to a team-mate, you're suggested lesser skilled players are then somehow competent enough to string a tape-to-tape pass over a much greater distance.

"It's almost as if the players don't really care about these one or two games suspensions the league hands out. The Department of Player Safety is completely failing at their one intended reason for existence."

News Flash - players don't care and neither should we. For decades, the NHL was widely successful as a self-policing league; remove the instigator and F "Player Safety Office". You pointed out a failure of the current system. Dub's 1-game, cost him $31K, but failed to deter OTHER players from engaging in similar behavior. This is the players don't care angle. If Dub's was forced to drop the gloves and got his faced bashed-in however, it could possibly change his mind going forward. Retribution pays off.

Unfortunately, the goon mentality of the NHL does not help grow the game to casual fans in Amer. How savage. Don't like it; don't watch it.
- out_of_market

If I were I Buffalo or a Pens fan I would be much more satisfied seeing Arvidsson (or Dubinsky) get rag-dolled all over the ice and knocked out cold than I would be with just a suspension.

The mentality of the players has changed and removing the instagitor is pointless, you can't force a player to drop the gloves so a player like Dubinsky will still run wild and will simply refuse to drop the gloves when confronted, he'll turtle if a guy throws anyway and will laugh his ass of as that guy heads to the box and his team gains an advantage. We saw this during that exact game when Hornqvist ran Calvert with an unnecessary hit and then refuse to go when several guys including Calvert challenged him.

The only thing that is going to deter players is heavy hits to their check books, losing 31K going to deter a player like Dubinsky who gets paid millions to do exactly what he did but 20 games and 600k will certainly open his eyes.
- jaydogg1974

You don't make it a choice for Dubinsky. If he wants to run then you cheap shot him, because he seems to think cheap shots are fine.

Bullpoop. Remember when Boyle was running/punching Erik Karlsson in game 1 of the playoffs a few years back? The next game, Matt Carkner went out, grabbed Boyle and just unloaded on him (Dubi got thrown out as a 3rd man in). Oddly enough, Boyle stopped going after EK for the rest of the series. Must have been a strange coincidence.
- jmatchett383

I was literally going to use the exact same example!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94r8eauXqkU

If I were I Buffalo or a Pens fan I would be much more satisfied seeing Arvidsson (or Dubinsky) get rag-dolled all over the ice and knocked out cold than I would be with just a suspension.
- RonPielep

Satisfied? Absolutely. But I'm not sure it would go anywhere in injury prevention since its purely reactionary retaliation. Say Crosby got hurt on the Dubinsky cross check and one of our bigger guys like Cole, Plotnikov, or Dumoulin pummeled him. It wouldn't change the fact that Crosby was hurt. And would losing a fight really stop a guy like Dubinsky from making dangerous plays in the future? Would it deter other players around the league that relish being the villains on the ice? I'm not sure it would. It would just dish out punitive justice after injuries occurred.

The only thing in my mind that has a shot at stopping dangerous plays that lead to injury is disproportional punishment that costs players a chunk of their paychecks that they can actually feel. Once players get money taken away, then they'll think twice about boarding someone or dishing out checks to the back of the neck before they actually hurt someone whether intentional or on accident in the name of grinding their opponent down.

But I agree. Step one: take away the instigator rule. It has no upside and only serves to prevent the actual good fights in the NHL that have a purpose. These staged fights between goons that supposedly "swing momentum" are lame and boring. Fights where players are sticking up for teammates are a big part of the game and shouldn't be deterred by instigator penalties.

Funny, what were the "dirty plays" that Cooke pulled after Thornton and Kane beat him up? Also, Neal won't drop them, which is why the removal of the instigator would be needed.

I'm not saying it's the answer, but this poop never happened (well, not nearly as much) back in the 80/90s when the players policed the game until the NHL decided to reduce fighting ten-fold.
- jmatchett383

I'd love nothing more than watching Neal and Kadri have to pay for their bullpoop.

Actually, this guy would have, which is why the instigator penalty sucks.


- smellmyfinger

[/URL]

Satisfied? Absolutely. But I'm not sure it would go anywhere in injury prevention since its purely reactionary retaliation. Say Crosby got hurt on the Dubinsky cross check and one of our bigger guys like Cole, Plotnikov, or Dumoulin pummeled him. It wouldn't change the fact that Crosby was hurt. And would losing a fight really stop a guy like Dubinsky from making dangerous plays in the future? Would it deter other players around the league that relish being the villains on the ice? I'm not sure it would. It would just dish out punitive justice after injuries occurred.

The only thing in my mind that has a shot at stopping dangerous plays that lead to injury is disproportional punishment that costs players a chunk of their paychecks that they can actually feel. Once players get money taken away, then they'll think twice about boarding someone or dishing out checks to the back of the neck before they actually hurt someone whether intentional or on accident in the name of grinding their opponent down.

But I agree. Step one: take away the instigator rule. It has no upside and only serves to prevent the actual good fights in the NHL that have a purpose. These staged fights between goons that supposedly "swing momentum" are lame and boring. Fights where players are sticking up for teammates are a big part of the game and shouldn't be deterred by instigator penalties.
- Victoro311

Well after the fact nothing is going to change the fact Crosby is hurt.

Depends who Dubi lost a fight to and how ruthless it was. If Dubi got ass-whooped into a new dimension I think that would serve to deter him more than a 1 game suspension.

I agree as well though, monetary fines and suspensions need to be taken more seriously. It shouldn't take as long as it took Torres to build up a resume for being a scum bag. And they shouldn't just look at other times when players were injured or supplemental discipline was given. They should look at that players style of play in general.

But I don't see why players who wanna take cheap shots shouldn't pay the iron price as well as the gold price.

You don't make it a choice for Dubinsky. If he wants to run then you cheap shot him, because he seems to think cheap shots are fine.
- RonPielep

And you think Columbus is just going to sit back and say well he deserved it or do you think they're going to want the same retribution and target the stars even more? Someone cheapshotting Dubinsky only puts the stars in more danger. It kills me that people would even think that taking out Dubinsky would just be the end of it.

Well after the fact nothing is going to change the fact Crosby is hurt.

Depends who Dubi lost a fight to and how ruthless it was. If Dubi got ass-whooped into a new dimension I think that would serve to deter him more than a 1 game suspension.

I agree as well though, monetary fines and suspensions need to be taken more seriously. It shouldn't take as long as it took Torres to build up a resume for being a scum bag. And they shouldn't just look at other times when players were injured or supplemental discipline was given. They should look at that players style of play in general.

But I don't see why players who wanna take cheap shots shouldn't pay the iron price as well as the gold price.
- RonPielep

Nice GOT reference

Satisfied? Absolutely. But I'm not sure it would go anywhere in injury prevention since its purely reactionary retaliation. Say Crosby got hurt on the Dubinsky cross check and one of our bigger guys like Cole, Plotnikov, or Dumoulin pummeled him. It wouldn't change the fact that Crosby was hurt. And would losing a fight really stop a guy like Dubinsky from making dangerous plays in the future? Would it deter other players around the league that relish being the villains on the ice? I'm not sure it would. It would just dish out punitive justice after injuries occurred.

The only thing in my mind that has a shot at stopping dangerous plays that lead to injury is disproportional punishment that costs players a chunk of their paychecks that they can actually feel. Once players get money taken away, then they'll think twice about boarding someone or dishing out checks to the back of the neck before they actually hurt someone whether intentional or on accident in the name of grinding their opponent down.

But I agree. Step one: take away the instigator rule. It has no upside and only serves to prevent the actual good fights in the NHL that have a purpose. These staged fights between goons that supposedly "swing momentum" are lame and boring. Fights where players are sticking up for teammates are a big part of the game and shouldn't be deterred by instigator penalties.
- Victoro311

But... fines are part of the CBA, so the PA has some say into how much. For me, suspensions and fines (also retaliatory) are a false argument because I don't see the PA being comfortable w/ heavier amounts. I could be wrong.

I would venture to say Luke Schenn is perfectly okay w/ his instigator penalty vs. NYR. You're spot-on about fighting/ sticking-up for team-mates. Other clubs notice these things and if the Pens aren't going to defend their best mates, then get used to more hits for the balance of the season. The lack of response happens to be my biggest gripe against the Pens (e.g. Maatta and Crosby). Bueller?

Well after the fact nothing is going to change the fact Crosby is hurt.

Depends who Dubi lost a fight to and how ruthless it was. If Dubi got ass-whooped into a new dimension I think that would serve to deter him more than a 1 game suspension.

I agree as well though, monetary fines and suspensions need to be taken more seriously. It shouldn't take as long as it took Torres to build up a resume for being a scum bag. And they shouldn't just look at other times when players were injured or supplemental discipline was given. They should look at that players style of play in general.

But I don't see why players who wanna take cheap shots shouldn't pay the iron price as well as the gold price.
- RonPielep

Dubinsky isn't going to fight someone that would give him an ass-whooping into a new dimension so that really is a non-factor and as I said in my previous post, simply attack Dubinsky and pummeling him isn't going to solvthe issue either because now Columbus will want retribution for attacking Dubinsky and will just start having everyone start running the stars in retaliation. The solution puts the stars in more peril than they were in before the solution.

Well after the fact nothing is going to change the fact Crosby is hurt.

Depends who Dubi lost a fight to and how ruthless it was. If Dubi got ass-whooped into a new dimension I think that would serve to deter him more than a 1 game suspension.

I agree as well though, monetary fines and suspensions need to be taken more seriously. It shouldn't take as long as it took Torres to build up a resume for being a scum bag. And they shouldn't just look at other times when players were injured or supplemental discipline was given. They should look at that players style of play in general.

But I don't see why players who wanna take cheap shots shouldn't pay the iron price as well as the gold price.
- RonPielep

I can get behind this. I have no issue with fighting in the NHL when it means something and is for a good reason. But I don't think it substitutes league level discipline. A good combination of both is what needs to happen, but the league took the latter away with the instigator penalty and refuses to do the former in an effective way, so everything just basically sucks.

But... fines are part of the CBA, so the PA has some say into how much. For me, suspensions and fines (also retaliatory) are a false argument because I don't see the PA being comfortable w/ heavier amounts. I could be wrong.

I would venture to say Luke Schenn is perfectly okay w/ his instigator penalty vs. NYR. You're spot-on about fighting/ sticking-up for team-mates. Other clubs notice these things and if the Pens aren't going to defend their best mates, then get used to more hits for the balance of the season. The lack of response happens to be my biggest gripe against the Pens (e.g. Maatta and Crosby). Bueller?
- out_of_market

For our specific team it's a catch 22. When no one sticks up for our guys when they get ran, we complain that we're soft. When they do and the game gets out of hand because everyone got overly emotional then we're pissed because we played like jackasses. What we need is a guy or two that can play good hockey but also take care of jackassery when it happens without having Malkin and Letang taking stupid and emotional penalties. Despres could have been that guy. I was hoping that Plotnikov would be that guy. I had a little bit of hope that Dumoulin could turn into that guy. Unfortunately we traded Despres, Plotnikov ended up not being as physical as billed, and Dumoulin is who he is. However, I'd rather not have someone like that and ice a team of guys that can all play hockey than have a guy like Sestito or John Scott who are complete liabilities on the ice.

I can get behind this. I have no issue with fighting in the NHL when it means something and is for a good reason. But I don't think it substitutes league level discipline. A good combination of both is what needs to happen, but the league took the latter away with the instigator penalty and refuses to do the former in an effective way, so everything just basically sucks.
- Victoro311

Agreed

And you think Columbus is just going to sit back and say well he deserved it or do you think they're going to want the same retribution and target the stars even more? Someone cheapshotting Dubinsky only puts the stars in more danger. It kills me that people would even think that taking out Dubinsky would just be the end of it.

- jaydogg1974

So you're going to let them bully your stars because you are afraid they will retaliate if you retaliate. That's a good way for people to continue treating you like poop.

They send a goon after Dubi. If they want retribution on that goon, they can have it, they just need to take it.