He's also played 10 less games. Say he puts up minimum of 6 points in those ten games, thats 24 Pts. Not at that level but still not as bad.
If we think Kane is the reason this team is losing then you haven't been watching the same games... Look at the post I had earlier about secondary scoring.
- bluengold12

He's not the reason we are losing. He also isn't a reason we win.

He's been below average. He's had trouble finding chemistry with anyone he plays with. Which was a problem in the Peg.

He's a 3rd liner on a cup contending team

Evander Kane is 3rd in the NHL among forwards in ice time. He has 18 points.

Players production around the NHL with similar minutes

O'Reilly 40 points
Kopitar 40 points
Steen 42 points
P. Kane 72 points
Ovechkin 42 points
Giroux 37 points

His production is a major dissapointment. Anyone who thinks it's just bad luck isn't seeing the full picture
- sbroads24

He also is coming off shoulder surgery that made him miss the second half of last season.

He's not the reason we are losing. He also isn't a reason we win.

He's been below average. He's had trouble finding chemistry with anyone he plays with. Which was a problem in the Peg.

He's a 3rd liner on a cup contending team
- sbroads24

No he is not . He is a 24 year old coming of shoulder surgery that made him miss a half a season and he is working on getting his game back . His speed and grit , he would be a welcome addition to the top 6 of at least half the teams in the league . Hi biggest flaw . He was traded to us for Myers.

No he is not . He is a 24 year old coming of shoulder surgery that made him miss a half a season and he is working on getting his game back . His speed and grit , he would be a welcome addition to the top 6 of at least half the teams in the league . Hi biggest flaw . He was traded to us for Myers.
- Maximum Signal

The injury excuses are really old. He's been able to play since the summer

Hoping this is sarcasm....
- bluengold12

No it was not , It was someone who does not alot putting up a well thought out post . Do I agree with all of it? No . But that is no reason to be an bumhole to somebody when they did put up a honest effort.

I feel for the few good posters who still waste their time here. The arguments are brutal.

We are still building... with what? A couple bottom six forward prospects and a second round dman.

Tim Murray said that rebuilds do not have to take years. He unloaded most of our picks and prospects for players that are supposed to make us better now.

If I have to hear one more time that we will improve 20 points over last year, I will vomit. We were trying to tank last year. We are currently a few points better than we were at this point last year, then we traded away everything and fielded an AHL team from the trade deadline to the end of the year. Am I really supposed to be impressed with an improvement over last year?

Basically we have to hope we are able to add through FA. And when that doesn't happen, and we are still bad in two years we will have new excuses and more incoherent arguments for why it isn't Murray's fault.
- SabresPanacea

Building with the second youngest roster in the NHL, two #2 overall picks who can't even buy beer yet, a kicckass rock solid Dman, more center depth than most teams dream of, 11 more picks in this year's draft, more than a few promising youngsters already in the pipeline, and (to the realistic among us) still pretty low expectations.

We are better now.

Nobody is forcing you to read anything you don't like.

I hope you do.

The Sabres, owners, coaches, and fans do not care if you are impressed or not.

All good NHL teams do this to some extent. Some, like LA, owe much of their Cup success to trades and FA.

How the HE double-hockey-sticks can you know this? Magic?

You give other posters far too little credit and yourself far, far too much.

The injury excuses are really old. He's been able to play since the summer
- sbroads24

Does not mean , it does not take a while to return to full form . His shooting percentage could be a lot better . But I do like his tenacity , speed and work on the boards. Like I said biggest fault . - Being who Myers was traded for. I loved Myers more than you. But what is done is done . I am not going to stop watching this team and be pissed off forever and look for things to female dog about. Time will tell if it was a bad trade or not.I will give it more than half a season.

I have never had shoulder surgery . Had a lot of other one. But I did separate a shoulder 33 years ago and it still acts up at times.

Building with the second youngest roster in the NHL, two #2 overall picks who can't even buy beer yet, a kicckass rock solid Dman, more center depth than most teams dream of, 11 more picks in this year's draft, more than a few promising youngsters already in the pipeline, and (to the realistic among us) still pretty low expectations.

We are better now.

Nobody is forcing you to read anything you don't like.

I hope you do.

The Sabres, owners, coaches, and fans do not care if you are impressed or not.

All good NHL teams do this to some extent. Some, like LA, owe much of their Cup success to trades and FA.

How the HE double-hockey-sticks can you know this? Magic?

You give other posters far too little credit and yourself far, far too much.
- LandlordTom

Can I buy you a beer?

No it was not , It was someone who does not alot putting up a well thought out post . Do I agree with all of it? No . But that is no reason to be an bumhole to somebody when they did put up a honest effort.


- Maximum Signal

What about my post that took effort and is factually correct about secondary scoring?

That's a lot more accurate than a conspiracy that Moulson is here to babysit Eichel.

Does not mean , it does not take a while to return to full form . His shooting percentage could be a lot better . But I do like his tenacity , speed and work on the boards. Like I said biggest fault . - Being who Myers was traded for. I loved Myers more than you. But what is done is done . I am not going to stop watching this team and be pissed off forever and look for things to female dog about. Time will tell if it was a bad trade or not.I will give it more than half a season.

I have never had shoulder surgery . Had a lot of other one. But I did separate a shoulder 33 years ago and it still acts up at times.
- Maximum Signal

Max, I don't care about Myers that much. We have Ristolainen as a #1 RHD. Myers would be a good #2, but whatever.

My issues lies with this GM. If he really thought Kane would be a key cog on a cup team, I have serious doubts as to what other moves he will make.

Kane is decent. But he is being deployed like a top line player, and isn't coming remotely close to producing like one

What about my post that took effort and is factually correct about secondary scoring?

That's a lot more accurate than a conspiracy that Moulson is here to babysit Eichel.
- bluengold12

Well he is doing it . Least he could do for the money he is taking. LOL By the way I liked your post I was just giving someone I don't see around here props for the effort.

Max, I don't care about Myers that much. We have Ristolainen as a #1 RHD. Myers would be a good #2, but whatever.

My issues lies with this GM. If he really thought Kane would be a key cog on a cup team, I have serious doubts as to what other moves he will make.

Kane is decent. But he is being deployed like a top line player, and isn't coming remotely close to producing like one
- sbroads24

I keep telling you Murray is not near done . How can you judge so harshly when the product is not done. None of us know what Murray's vision is but I am seeing enough improvement that I see us going in the right direction . Make the playoffs next year and cup contender the following year is what I hope for.

I think the problem is twofold. Last two years we had too many 4th line/AHL players on this team. Now we have too many 3rd line checking guys. Leads to less goals against but still no goals for. O'Riley, Eichel, Reinhart, Kane and McGinn being the exception.
We have five forwards with 10 goals or more. And 1 D with 8. The next highest guy is Gionta with 5. Kane has also played ten less games than everyone above him. His shot percentage might not be good but he does shoot more than anyone else.
Ennis has been a mess due to injury this year. He's played over twenty games less than everyone around him and when he has played its been after injury and trying to get his feet wet. I don't think he's been 100% all season...
Our main problem is secondary scoring. If you notice we won a few games recently due to getting it. I looked at about ten other teams in the NHL and all of them had similar numbers 4-6 people on average of scoring 10 or more goals on their team.
The difference? Most if not all of them had three or four guys with 6-9 goals as well.
The biggest difference is guys like Moulson, Gionta, Larsson, Foligno and Girgensons not scoring goals. They are all essentially playing the same role on this team.
Need to get rid of half of them and replace them with some offensive capable players to be a productive scoring team.
- bluengold12

This is a strong post

This is a strong post
- bluengold12

I agree . Did not think you needed props from me as most of your posts are strong.

I keep telling you Murray is not near done . How can you judge so harshly when the product is not done. None of us know what Murray's vision is but I am seeing enough improvement that I see us going in the right direction . Make the playoffs next year and cup contender the following year is what I hope for.
- Maximum Signal

Like I said.....I know he's not done, and that's scary.

He grabbed an excellent player in O'Reilly. I'll give him that. So far that's about the only move that looks good

I agree . Did not think you needed props from me as most of your posts are strong.
- Maximum Signal

I just thought it warranted further discussion instead of debating about a player in Kane who isn't the problem we're losing. I think it needs to be discussed more how the logjam of mediocre 3rd line defensive players has made this team into a boring non offensive product. When teams shut down O'Riley and Eichel and guys like Larsson, Gionta, Foligno and Moulson have chances they have to bury them and they aren't. It's costing us more than half of our loses.

Like I said.....I know he's not done, and that's scary.

He grabbed an excellent player in O'Reilly. I'll give him that. So far that's about the only move that looks good
- sbroads24

C'mon Stop already . To early to judge these moves long term . Lehner move did not look bad last two games. If he keeps improving? Bogosian is rounding out and feeling more comfortable now that he is paired with Risto. It does not all happen overnight . In what world do you so from last to Stanley cup contender overnight.

I just thought it warranted further discussion instead of debating about a player in Kane who isn't the problem we're losing. I think it needs to be discussed more how the logjam of mediocre 3rd line defensive players has made this team into a boring non offensive product. When teams shut down O'Riley and Eichel and guys like Larsson, Gionta, Foligno and Moulson have chances they have to bury them and they aren't. It's costing us more than half of our loses.
- bluengold12

I thought your post pretty well nailed it . Not much left to discuss. But I appreciate your effort to get the discussion off Kane. This got old months ago but some folks won't let it go.

I thought your post pretty well nailed it . Not much left to discuss. But I appreciate your effort to get the discussion off Kane. This got old months ago but some folks won't let it go.
- Maximum Signal

Yet you respond. Over and over and over again.

You need to be the one that let's go. Kane isn't that good. Until he is, you will probably hear about it. And not just from myself

Yet you respond. Over and over and over again.

You need to be the one that let's go. Kane isn't that good. Until he is, you will probably hear about it. And not just from myself
- sbroads24

You first! No you are the only one beating the dead horse daily.

Can I buy you a beer?



- Maximum Signal

How about a job? I have an MS in Science Education, can sell refrigerators to Eskimos, and need a change from what I've been doing the last 20 years.

Beer would be great, too.

How about a job? I have an MS in Science Education, can sell refrigerators to Eskimos, and need a change from what I've been doing the last 20 years.

Beer would be great, too.
- LandlordTom

Give a bit of time to launch my new product line , Never know. Money is tight right now . Lawyers took over 850,000 in my fight with the government I finally won. Now dealing with a patent troll . Only ones getting rich so far this year are lawyers.

25-30 goals a year, very physical and good special teams (pk)

that is what I expected


if he popped a few more goals (4) he would be where I thought at this point


he is not the problem, but he needs to pick it up a bit to be part of our solution
- homiedclown

He is part of the the problem we might have like six to eight more wins if he doesn't hit the post every (frank)ing time

How about a job? I have an MS in Science Education, can sell refrigerators to Eskimos, and need a change from what I've been doing the last 20 years.

Beer would be great, too.
- LandlordTom

I need a change from what I've been doing for the last 20 years too. So I'd like to see if I cant find a job drinking beer.

(Of course, the part of that which is a change is that my effort would now be compensated, instead of just a hobby.)

I need a change from what I've been doing for the last 20 years too. So I'd like to see if I cant find a job drinking beer.

(Of course, the part of that which is a change is that my effort would now be compensated, instead of just a hobby.)
- Der Kaiser

Great work if you can get it.