Aye...still think they wouldve added Streit though. He was well worth his contract
- YuenglingJagr

Was, or is?

This is my belief also. That one injury had a huge effect on this team one that it really is still paying for.
- dragonoffrost

It wasn't just the injury, but the reaction to the injury

Sometimes, guys like Phaneuf fit in with one set of personnel better than they fit with another set.

Look at Vinny....in that role they have him in in LA, he's doing fine.
- johndewar

Yep. And he rocked the throw-back jersey like a boss last night.

Was, or is?
- jmatchett383

What I meant was really...I think regardless of what happens in the next year and a half he was worth it

Yeah, the schlub who took a 56-point team and overhauled it into a conference finalist (the very next year) and a Stanley Cup finalist (two seasons after that). The same one who built 106-point and 103-point teams the next two seasons after that.

The one who took two players who, despite being on-ice stars, had to go and turned the deals into Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds and Brayden Schenn?

Were some of the moves and cap decisions detrimental in retrospect? Yes. But Holmgren was FAR from a "schlub."
- bmeltzer

I don't know. How hard is it really to make a lot of those moves that he did with a stack of blank checks and no worries about a long term vision. How hard is it to call Anaheim and ask them how many firsts they need for Pronger. How hard is it to call briere's agent and tell him hey just tell him to fly in and he's got 70 million for 8 years or whatever. Even the stroke of genious you alluded to was just undoing his own mistakes. Thank god the flyers were gifted buyouts

Coburn for zhitnik puts him one rung above mibury.

Aye...still think they wouldve added Streit though. He was well worth his contract
- YuenglingJagr

True Streit might have been acquired but AMac and the JvR for Luke deals probably never happen.

I don't know. How hard is it really to make a lot of those moves that he did with a stack of blank checks and no worries about a long term vision. How hard is it to call Anaheim and ask them how many firsts they need for Pronger. How hard is it to call briere's agent and tell him hey just tell him to fly in and he's got 70 million for 8 years or whatever. Even the stroke of genious you alluded to was just undoing his own mistakes. Thank god the flyers were gifted buyouts

Coburn for zhitnik puts him one rung above mibury.
- Just5

He did built a pretty stacked team that went to the Finals...

I don't know. How hard is it really to make a lot of those moves that he did with a stack of blank checks and no worries about a long term vision. How hard is it to call Anaheim and ask them how many firsts they need for Pronger. How hard is it to call briere's agent and tell him hey just tell him to fly in and he's got 70 million for 8 years or whatever. Even the stroke of genious you alluded to was just undoing his own mistakes. Thank god the flyers were gifted buyouts

Coburn for zhitnik puts him one rung above mibury.
- Just5

Yeah being a GM is easy

The Pronger injury doomed him. I think his thought was always to get Pronger and contend and hope Pronger would play until his late 30s or 40s. During that time, the team would draft and develop defenseman so when Pronger retired, they'd have guys ready to step in. I felt like he panicked after the Pronger injury. I don't think they sign Streit, Amac or trade for Luke if Pronger is healthy.
- PhillySportsGuy

It definitely set them back and ruined their plans for the win-now mentality they had going.

Yeah being a GM is easy
- funmaster18

I think a lot of us can do it. After a weekend seminar

Until now, this team's management problem has always been lack of patience. Whether it was Holmgren or Bobby Clarke or whoever, the Flyers have a long, frustrating history of trying to buy success instead of earning it.

It sucks right now, and it makes sense that we fans want to vent about all the issues currently wrong with this team, but Hexy is doing the right thing IMO.
- ChoclitLeClair

Exactly.....Holmgren was ultra aggressive....he hit some homeruns as Bill pointed out but he also made some decisions that hurt the club. With Homer it was never dull. I thought for the most part, considering the results he did a good job, unfortunately it's the bad signings that he'll be remembered for by most.
When you swing for the fences your going to strike out once in a while....like the Dave Kingman of GM's I guess.

thanks a lot for the loss btw
- funmaster18

I've discovered my losing record is solely to blame on my older brother. He made a valid point last night saying the last 10 philly sports events we've attended together have all been losses

Since the pk has been bad for years, i propose sending all the coaches down to the AHL for development, especially lappy and hak. It appears they've been rushed and we need to do something now before they learn bad habits. In the meantime homer and some drunks from chickies and petes can coach cause we suck anyway.

I guess people didnt see Maroons left eye either. Manning caught him flush and knocked him to his knee.. He was out muscled but certainly did a great job actually fighting.
- jak521

It looked like the fight was going to be a quick one but Manning pushed back and caught him cleanly with that punch that made him fall. was a solid fight that went on pretty long. I really thought refs were going to break it up when Manning was about to go down.

List of notable trades made by Paul Holmgren:

The good:
- Forsberg to Nashville for Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall, 2007 1st round pick , 2007 3rd round pick
- Zhitnik to Atlanta for Coburn
- Calder to Chicago for Kukkonen, 2007 3rd round pick
- 2007 2nd round pick to Buffalo for Martin Biron
- 2007 1st round pick to Nashville for Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell
- Alexandre R. Picard and 2009 2nd round pick to TB for Prospal
- Umberger and 288 4th round pick to Columbus for 2008 1st round pick and 2008 3rd round pick
- Steve Downie, Steve Eminger, 2009 4th round pick to TB for Matt Carle and 2009 3rd round pick
- Ole-Kristian Tollefsen and 2011 5th round pick for Ville Leino
- Rights to Dan Hamhuis to Pittsburgh for 2011 3rd round pick
- Rob Bordson and Mike Richards to LA for Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, 2012 2nd round pick
- Jeff Carter to Columbus for Jakub Voracek, 2011 1st round pick, 2011 3rd round pick
- Kris Versteeg to Florida for 2012 3rd round pick and 2012 2nd round pick
- 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 3rd round pick to Dallas for Nicklas Grossmann
- Michael Leighton and 2015 3rd round pick for Steve Mason
- Andrei Meszaros to Boston for 2014 3rd round pick

The bad:
- 2008 1st round pick to Washington for Steve Eminger and 2008 3rd round pick
- Scottie Upshall and 2011 2nd round pick to Phoenix for Dan Carcillo
- 2012 2nd round pick to TB for Andrei Mesazros
- Simon Gagne to TB for Matt Walker and 2011 4th round pick
- 2011 1st round pick and 2011 3rd round pick to Toronto for Kris Versteeg
- Matt Clackson, 2011 3rd round pick, 2012 3rd round pick to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov
- Jon Kalinski, 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 4th round pick for Pavel Kubina
JVR to Toronto for Luke Schenn
- 2014 3rd round pick, 2015 2nd round pick, Matt Mangene to NYI for Andrew MacDonald

Debateable:
- Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, 2009 3rd round pick to Edmonton for Joffrey Lupul and Jason Smith
- Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick (#29-Emerson Etem) for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle
- Sergei Bobrovsky to Columbus for 2012 4th round pick, 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 4th round pick
- 2014 4th round pick and Shane Harper for the rights to Mark Streit

Some of his FA signings and extensions can be questioned, but some (Read, Briere, Betts, Lapierre, Bobrovsky, Jagr, Emery, Raffl) were pretty good, too.

True Streit might have been acquired but AMac and the JvR for Luke deals probably never happen.
- dragonoffrost

Agreed

List of notable trades made by Paul Holmgren:

The good:
- Forsberg to Nashville for Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall, 2007 1st round pick , 2007 3rd round pick
- Zhitnik to Atlanta for Coburn
- Calder to Chicago for Kukkonen, 2007 3rd round pick
- 2007 2nd round pick to Buffalo for Martin Biron
- 2007 1st round pick to Nashville for Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell
- Alexandre R. Picard and 2009 2nd round pick to TB for Prospal
- Umberger and 288 4th round pick to Columbus for 2008 1st round pick and 2008 3rd round pick
- Steve Downie, Steve Eminger, 2009 4th round pick to TB for Matt Carle and 2009 3rd round pick
- Ole-Kristian Tollefsen and 2011 5th round pick for Ville Leino
- Rights to Dan Hamhuis to Pittsburgh for 2011 3rd round pick
- Rob Bordson and Mike Richards to LA for Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, 2012 2nd round pick
- Jeff Carter to Columbus for Jakub Voracek, 2011 1st round pick, 2011 3rd round pick
- Kris Versteeg to Florida for 2012 3rd round pick and 2012 2nd round pick
- 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 3rd round pick to Dallas for Nicklas Grossmann
- Michael Leighton and 2015 3rd round pick for Steve Mason
- Andrei Meszaros to Boston for 2014 3rd round pick

The bad:
- 2008 1st round pick to Washington for Steve Eminger and 2008 3rd round pick
- Scottie Upshall and 2011 2nd round pick to Phoenix for Dan Carcillo
- 2012 2nd round pick to TB for Andrei Mesazros
- Simon Gagne to TB for Matt Walker and 2011 4th round pick
- 2011 1st round pick and 2011 3rd round pick to Toronto for Kris Versteeg
- Matt Clackson, 2011 3rd round pick, 2012 3rd round pick to Phoenix for rights to Ilya Bryzgalov
- Jon Kalinski, 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 4th round pick for Pavel Kubina
JVR to Toronto for Luke Schenn
- 2014 3rd round pick, 2015 2nd round pick, Matt Mangene to NYI for Andrew MacDonald

Debateable:
- Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, 2009 3rd round pick to Edmonton for Joffrey Lupul and Jason Smith
- Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, 2009 1st round pick, 2010 1st round pick (#29-Emerson Etem) for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle
- Sergei Bobrovsky to Columbus for 2012 4th round pick, 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 4th round pick
- 2014 4th round pick and Shane Harper for the rights to Mark Streit

Some of his FA signings and extensions can be questioned, but some (Read, Briere, Betts, Lapierre, Bobrovsky, Jagr, Emery, Raffl) were pretty good, too.
- jmatchett383

PRONGER DEBATABLE?!?! get that poop out of here

PRONGER DEBATABLE?!?! get that poop out of here
- YuenglingJagr

Some people would rather judge how it turned out as opposed to how it looked at the time.

Yeah, the schlub who took a 56-point team and overhauled it into a conference finalist (the very next year) and a Stanley Cup finalist (two seasons after that). The same one who built 106-point and 103-point teams the next two seasons after that.

The one who took two players who, despite being on-ice stars, had to go and turned the deals into Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds and Brayden Schenn?

Were some of the moves and cap decisions detrimental in retrospect? Yes. But Holmgren was FAR from a "schlub."
- bmeltzer

Homer cuts a wicked cake and had improved his bike riding skills

Exactly.....Holmgren was ultra aggressive....he hit some homeruns as Bill pointed out but he also made some decisions that hurt the club. With Homer it was never dull. I thought for the most part, considering the results he did a good job, unfortunately it's the bad signings that he'll be remembered for by most.
When you swing for the fences your going to strike out once in a while....like the Dave Kingman of GM's I guess.

- landros 2

I respect Homer for always trying to put together a team that could win, his main flaw was not focusing on the salary cap and what it could do to the future. The Pronger injury was a real kick in the boys, no doubt, but we are very lucky Hextall was able to make some magic happen and get the salary cap back to a manageable situation. Can't blame Homer for going for it all, but his panic moves with MacDonald and Vinny didn't need to happen.

fine is debatable...but id call it downright wrong.

His possession numbers are still terrible and his shooting percentage is 2.5 times his career average. I think the team around him minimizes how bad he is.

In relation to the Sens I think their team is better suited for a guy like Phaneuf so I agree he will not stand out as much...we will see how it works for him, but like I said yesterday, I think how bad his contract is is overblown. He might not even be the most overpaid defenseman by the end of his contract.
- YuenglingJagr

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you....I'm just saying that maybe Ottawa sees a role for Phaneuf that Toronto does not and they are willing to meet Phaneuf's contract price.

I would want no part of Phaneuf (or even Vinny) at what they cost, regardless of role.

List of notable trades made by Paul Holmgren:

The good:
- Forsberg to Nashville for Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall, 2007 1st round pick , 2007 3rd round pick
- Zhitnik to Atlanta for Coburn
- Calder to Chicago for Kukkonen, 2007 3rd round pick
- 2007 2nd round pick to Buffalo for Martin Biron
- 2007 1st round pick to Nashville for Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell
- Alexandre R. Picard and 2009 2nd round pick to TB for Prospal
- Umberger and 288 4th round pick to Columbus for 2008 1st round pick and 2008 3rd round pick
- Steve Downie, Steve Eminger, 2009 4th round pick to TB for Matt Carle and 2009 3rd round pick
- Ole-Kristian Tollefsen and 2011 5th round pick for Ville Leino
- Rights to Dan Hamhuis to Pittsburgh for 2011 3rd round pick
- Rob Bordson and Mike Richards to LA for Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, 2012 2nd round pick
- Jeff Carter to Columbus for Jakub Voracek, 2011 1st round pick, 2011 3rd round pick
- Kris Versteeg to Florida for 2012 3rd round pick and 2012 2nd round pick
- 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 3rd round pick to Dallas for Nicklas Grossmann
- Michael Leighton and 2015 3rd round pick for Steve Mason
- Andrei Meszaros to Boston for 2014 3rd round pick

The bad:
- 2008 1st round pick to Washington for Steve Eminger and 2008 3rd round pick
- Scottie Upshall and 2011 2nd round pick to Phoenix for Dan Carcillo
- 2012 2nd round pick to TB for Andrei Mesazros

- jmatchett383

I dont think the Meszy move was bad at all.. Meszy was one of our better d-men for a couple of seasons.

Yep. And he rocked the throw-back jersey like a boss last night.
- Scoob

You see that behind the back assist he had to Gaborik last night?

First time I ever saw him actually complete that pass.

I respect Homer for always trying to put together a team that could win, his main flaw was not focusing on the salary cap and what it could do to the future. The Pronger injury was a real kick in the boys, no doubt, but we are very lucky Hextall was able to make some magic happen and get the salary cap back to a manageable situation. Can't blame Homer for going for it all, but his panic moves with MacDonald and Vinny didn't need to happen.
- Tomfan365

Amac, Vinny, bidding against himself of Bryz and Streit, 1st for Eminger, and JvR for Schenn weren't great, but he had more good than bad. He's remembered more for his later moves, which were mostly panic induced, as opposed to his early tenure which had several fantastic moves.

I dont think the Meszy move was bad at all.. Meszy was one of our better d-men for a couple of seasons.
- jak521

He was okay as a #5 defenseman. It was a steep price to pay, though, at the time.