Now all they need to do is find a team.

Does his NMC transfer with a trade or does it disappear?
- Glak18

Once he waives it and is traded his new team is under no obligation to make it part of the contract again. If it was going to be an issue they'd have found a trade partner and negotiated that before the trade just like the Flyers and Columbus did with him and Umberger.

Oh, okay. I was at the Coliseum watching them practice, and some guys struck up a conversation with Soderstrom in the parking lot afterwards and they ended up heading over to the Echelon Mall for lunch. Thought it might have been you.
- jmatchett383

If it was a weekend I was probably there anyhow. I was a leech around that team the years that they were out of the playoffs.

I know, but my questioning is why are they at this point?

Why didn't they do the same with Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier? Did they go to arbitration with Mike Richards or Jeff Carter? This is not the Flyers way, when they want someone, they get it done.

Even Raffl was extended during the season, even though he was going to be a UFA, but he would make sense to go this route if he was a RFA.

All the justification in the world wouldn't matter. When Schenn is signed for 4 or 5 years then the Flyers are telling everyone they want him for the core. If he plays next year with an arbitration ruling then that's telling me they want to have him for another year, but not long term with his asking price.
- Glak18

They're at this point simply because they haven't reached an agreement yet. Nothing more, nothing less. Negotiations with RFA's frequently last well into the Summer. The Flyers, according to Ron Hextall have been in negotiations with Schenn for a while. If they didn't want him, why would they be doing that? They want him, but they want him at a certain price. Arbitration is a last resort, for the Flyers. Schenn could play hardball and elect arbitration.

For all we know, Brayden Schenn could be walking into the WFC every single day pissed off that the Flyers traded his brother for Jordan Weal and said he wasn't going to sign for a penny less than his ask

None of us know. What we know is the options available to him and the team

What is arbitration's CF%?

For all we know, Brayden Schenn could be walking into the WFC every single day pissed off that the Flyers traded his brother for Jordan Weal and said he wasn't going to sign for a penny less than his ask

None of us know. What we know is the options available to him and the team
- AllInForFlyers

You can also just be a thirsty dude. Gatorade forgets about this demographic.

What is arbitration's CF%?
- jmatchett383

Not sure but it's gotta be a minus. right?

You're comparing 2 completely different situations. Ville Leino failed in Detroit, had a dominant playoffs followed by 1 solid season of production with line mates he meshed well with. He left to a rebuilding Sabres team where he couldn't live up to expectations.

Schenn has been home grown from the AHL up for the last 5 years. His development has been steady. How is this any way comparable to Ville Leino's time in Philly? The risk he doesn't live up to expectations? That can happen with any player in any season.
- Baxter27

leino didnt fail in detroit, there was no room for him in detroit. he played very well for grand rapids, but this is moot, who cares.

there is a huge risk he doesnt live up to expectation, especially on the back of a career year in terms of points and goals, in a contract year. what im trying to emphasize is not the similarities of the player, but the danger of committing so much term and dollar to someone who has only showed one year of production. schenn's whole career translates to a cap hit of 3-4 million, tops. but scoring 59 points in a contract year while getting the minutes and power play time he does, shouldnt make him garner 6 million, or even anything north of 5 million. thats absurd in my mind.

I'll spell this out for you: all that BS you just typed is based on opinion and feelings. You don't have the first damn clue whether Ron Hextall gives a damn about whether Schenn is pissed off or not. You have no idea what Ron Hextall FEELS about arbitration.

You have no idea how Brayden Schenn feels about arbitration -- he might say "I want my money. Period. I don't care how I get it."

You have no idea how these individuals feel about this process. None
- AllInForFlyers

No, it's based on the history of contract negotiations, comments by GM's, and more importantly, how many players actually go to arbitration.

You're right, Schenn could play hardball and elect arbitration. I've never said anything to the contrary. You're throwing around arbitration as if the Flyers should use it as a threat to play hardball with the player. Team elected arbitration is a last resort. Much better to negotiate an amicable, fair deal.

Not sure but it's gotta be a minus. right?
- mayorofangrytown

Only when it's viewed in the right context.

Of course, it depends if you're using fan data or team data.

No, it's based on the history of contract negotiations, comments by GM's, and more importantly, how many players actually go to arbitration.

You're right, Schenn could play hardball and elect arbitration. I've never said anything to the contrary. You're throwing around arbitration as if the Flyers should use it as a threat to play hardball with the player. Team elected arbitration is a last resort. Much better to negotiate an amicable, fair deal.
- MJL

No. False. Don't try to overstate what I said just because you are talking about feelings in the face of a contract negotiation.

I said if the Flyers don't like the term and AAV that Schenn wants, they don't have to pay it, nor do they have to trade him. Arbitration is an option they have, not to play hardball, but because it's part of the CBA and should be used

No, it's based on the history of contract negotiations, comments by GM's, and more importantly, how many players actually go to arbitration.

You're right, Schenn could play hardball and elect arbitration. I've never said anything to the contrary. You're throwing around arbitration as if the Flyers should use it as a threat to play hardball with the player. Team elected arbitration is a last resort. Much better to negotiate an amicable, fair deal.
- MJL

Just like debates on hockeybuzz

No. False. Don't try to overstate what I said just because you are talking about feelings in the face of a contract negotiation.

I said if the Flyers don't like the term and AAV that Schenn wants, they don't have to pay it, nor do they have to trade him. Arbitration is an option they have, not to play hardball, but because it's part of the CBA and should be used
- AllInForFlyers

Do you think than Brayden Schenn gets more tail now than Lupul did in his Philly days?

Do you think than Brayden Schenn gets more tail now than Lupul did in his Philly days?
- jmatchett383

Schenn's got the baby face, but Lupul plays the guitar

Advantage: Push

Now all they need to do is find a team.

Does his NMC transfer with a trade or does it disappear?
- Glak18

its up to the acquiring team to honor it or not

Schenn's got the baby face, but Lupul plays the guitar

Advantage: Push
- AllInForFlyers

Honestly...I think its an obvious no

Once he waives it and is traded his new team is under no obligation to make it part of the contract again. If it was going to be an issue they'd have found a trade partner and negotiated that before the trade just like the Flyers and Columbus did with him and Umberger.
- mayorofangrytown

Ok then that makes trading those players, the one who waive, much easier. So it's not as bad, but still ugly situation Columbus has. Now all they have to convince them to waive, Hartnell already has, and throw in something of value for another team to take them.

Honestly...I think its an obvious no
- YuenglingJagr

Gotta agree.

Lupul's bar play is tremendous even if he wasn't a pro athlete.

No. False. Don't try to overstate what I said just because you are talking about feelings in the face of a contract negotiation.

I said if the Flyers don't like the term and AAV that Schenn wants, they don't have to pay it, nor do they have to trade him. Arbitration is an option they have, not to play hardball, but because it's part of the CBA and should be used
- AllInForFlyers

isnt this essentially playing hardball. not agreeing on a contract because the team and player are too far off, so using arbitration as a way of saying, "ok, you dont agree, we know the arbitrator will give less than you want as well, so yeah, lets go there." regardless its a tool in the CBA they can use, it is rarely exercised, only for extenuating circumstances, and as MJL says comments from GMs tell you, it is not a preferred method of doing things, thats easy enough to see.

thats hardball to me.

No. False. Don't try to overstate what I said just because you are talking about feelings in the face of a contract negotiation.

I said if the Flyers don't like the term and AAV that Schenn wants, they don't have to pay it, nor do they have to trade him. Arbitration is an option they have, not to play hardball, but because it's part of the CBA and should be used
- AllInForFlyers

You stated " I'd take him to arbitration in a heartbeat". That's a the wrong mindset and a poor approach to have in a contract negotiation. The Flyers should do every thing they can, within reason, to avoid that situation.

Know what else is an option under the CBA? To hold him to his Q offer, and let him stew! Should they use that, because it's an available option, and should be used?

They're at this point simply because they haven't reached an agreement yet. Nothing more, nothing less. Negotiations with RFA's frequently last well into the Summer. The Flyers, according to Ron Hextall have been in negotiations with Schenn for a while. If they didn't want him, why would they be doing that? They want him, but they want him at a certain price. Arbitration is a last resort, for the Flyers. Schenn could play hardball and elect arbitration.
- MJL

Exactly, by doing this they want him, but at a certain price. That is the key, whereas someone else you want a lot you pay more for. Schenn is good to have, but with more stipulations than others.

isnt this essentially playing hardball. not agreeing on a contract because the team and player are too far off, so using arbitration as a way of saying, "ok, you dont agree, we know the arbitrator will give less than you want as well, so yeah, lets go there." regardless its a tool in the CBA they can use, it is rarely exercised, only for extenuating circumstances, and as MJL says comments from GMs tell you, it is not a preferred method of doing things, thats easy enough to see.

thats hardball to me.
- sjk540

No, playing hardball is what Richard Gere did to Randolph Duke in the beginning of Pretty Woman

isnt this essentially playing hardball. not agreeing on a contract because the team and player are too far off, so using arbitration as a way of saying, "ok, you dont agree, we know the arbitrator will give less than you want as well, so yeah, lets go there." regardless its a tool in the CBA they can use, it is rarely exercised, only for extenuating circumstances, and as MJL says comments from GMs tell you, it is not a preferred method of doing things, thats easy enough to see.

thats hardball to me.
- sjk540

No, because you can lose the case -- what if Schenn asked for $6 million? You can't pay that. If he doesn't come down, you absolutely can and should go to arbitration

Ok then that makes trading those players, the one who waive, much easier. So it's not as bad, but still ugly situation Columbus has. Now all they have to convince them to waive, Hartnell already has, and throw in something of value for another team to take them.
- Glak18

The biggest stumbling block for the Jackets is there's no way they can retain salary in a trade. They just can't keep the money on the books.

Maybe they'll have to pony up and just do it to get out from under. I can't see them paying Hartnell a million for the next three years. That's why they did the Horton deal with Toronto. They didn't want dead money on the books.

isnt this essentially playing hardball. not agreeing on a contract because the team and player are too far off, so using arbitration as a way of saying, "ok, you dont agree, we know the arbitrator will give less than you want as well, so yeah, lets go there."

thats hardball to me.
- sjk540

Huh?

Arbitration is handing the matter off to an impartial 3rd-party to force a compromise. Teams end up paying more than they wanted just as often as players get less than they were looking for.