Why it went down: There was a terrible need on the right side. No team was willing to trade on to Edm w/o a greater than fair price being paid.

How it went down: Barrie was not on the market. Shattenkirk was not likely to resign. Hamonic wasn't available anymore. Trouba is supposedly asking for too much to resign, and is likely not really on the market. UFAs were not willing to sign. NJ was willing to trade Larsson but the price, as explained in the "Why" section, was a steep price, but it was necessary. Some thing needed to be done and PC finally did something.

Criticize later, it is just complaining about something being done, after whining that something needed to be done.
- McSavioursPupil

See that isn't exactly true at the time. Remember when Mirtle tweeted out that The Avs are up to something big, there was some smoke to it. The guys at BSN Denver who have good sources are pretty comfortable reporting what they heard at the time, is that Avs were talking to the Ducks and to the Oilers in 2 separate deals and wouldnt do 1 without the other. Ducks wanted Landeskog but Avs wouldnt move him unless it was for Lindholm. Oilers wanted Barrie and had the option of Hall or Drai for that deal. As soon as the Ducks pulled out of that deal, the Barrie to Oilers deal didn't see anymore traction and Chia went onto Larsson. Thats what they heard from pretty good sources.

But the point was Chia was deadset at moving Hall for a RHS dman, and seemed blind sided by doing so that complete fair value was out the window. Trading for a RHS Dman was needed for the Oilers, but Chia didn't even wait too UFA to see about the Dmen, he made the trade before July 1st.

Seems not only me and Hendo thinking PC is poop. Lowetide and his followers seem to be coming to the realization PC is a bad GM. More and more finally being realists.
- Iggysbff

Oh please.

These guys were first in line that there were needed changed that needed to be made.

Now changes have been made and they are crying about losing a player.

There is no doubt in my mind that this team is better over all after the trade then they were before it.

Losing Hall sucks donkeys, but if that is the price to finally move forward to winning hockey...I would do it over and over.

You can keep saying that Lucic isn't replacing Hall. You are kind of right, you cannot replace Hall. That isn't about which line they play on, it is about skill level.

You are wrong in that Lucic will fill more needed areas that the team needs more than pure skill. He bring functional toughness along with skill.

When someone takes liberties with a player while Lucic is on the ice there will be a reaction to that...not a head down skate away....

Why it went down: There was a terrible need on the right side. No team was willing to trade on to Edm w/o a greater than fair price being paid.

How it went down: Barrie was not on the market. Shattenkirk was not likely to resign. Hamonic wasn't available anymore. Trouba is supposedly asking for too much to resign, and is likely not really on the market. UFAs were not willing to sign. NJ was willing to trade Larsson but the price, as explained in the "Why" section, was a steep price, but it was necessary. Some thing needed to be done and PC finally did something.

Criticize later, it is just complaining about something being done, after whining that something needed to be done.
- McSavioursPupil

The way I look at it when factoring in likely costs, it was one of 3 options:

Lucic and Larsson
Hall and Demers (likely ask of 5.5mil for 5 years)
Hall and a Dman like Severson (Nuge or Eberle sent in return)

In that final scenario, the team could quite possibly have still pursued Lucic, but likely would've had to move Pouliot's cap and maybe another piece for a 3C as the team would be quite deficient at C.

The way I look at it when factoring in likely costs, it was one of 3 options:

Lucic and Larsson
Hall and Demers (likely ask of 5.5mil for 5 years)
Hall and a Dman like Severson (Nuge or Eberle sent in return)

In that final scenario, the team could quite possibly have still pursued Lucic, but likely would've had to move Pouliot's cap and maybe another piece for a 3C as the team would be quite deficient at C.
- MaximumBone

And thats why its fair to still criticize it, even though he got the RHS dman they needed, but he was still willing to undersell Hall bc he had Lucic already in his back pocket. As a pure trade it justified to criticize it, but as parts of a bigger picture, it could be ok

See that isn't exactly true at the time. Remember when Mirtle tweeted out that The Avs are up to something big, there was some smoke to it. The guys at BSN Denver who have good sources are pretty comfortable reporting what they heard at the time, is that Avs were talking to the Ducks and to the Oilers in 2 separate deals and wouldnt do 1 without the other. Ducks wanted Landeskog but Avs wouldnt move him unless it was for Lindholm. Oilers wanted Barrie and had the option of Hall or Drai for that deal. As soon as the Ducks pulled out of that deal, the Barrie to Oilers deal didn't see anymore traction and Chia went onto Larsson. Thats what they heard from pretty good sources.

But the point was Chia was deadset at moving Hall for a RHS dman, and seemed blind sided by doing so that complete fair value was out the window. Trading for a RHS Dman was needed for the Oilers, but Chia didn't even wait too UFA to see about the Dmen, he made the trade before July 1st.
- DDM-Coga

It's just as likely that this was simply the cost of doing business. Without any speculation, I recall Shero saying "if they wanted Larsson, it had to be Hall". That's more than likely a sentiment held across the league as he was trying to find a trade that worked for the past year (he talked to Shero about Larsson the prior draft). He was also quoted multiple times during the year that he wanted to avoid trading Hall. Every sign points toward that being the cost we had to pay.

And the only Dman that would fit the bill we needed had been brought to Edmonton and wined & dined at the same time as Lucic. In the same way as they did with Lucic, I'm sure they had a general idea of his ask.

See that isn't exactly true at the time. Remember when Mirtle tweeted out that The Avs are up to something big, there was some smoke to it. The guys at BSN Denver who have good sources are pretty comfortable reporting what they heard at the time, is that Avs were talking to the Ducks and to the Oilers in 2 separate deals and wouldnt do 1 without the other. Ducks wanted Landeskog but Avs wouldnt move him unless it was for Lindholm. Oilers wanted Barrie and had the option of Hall or Drai for that deal. As soon as the Ducks pulled out of that deal, the Barrie to Oilers deal didn't see anymore traction and Chia went onto Larsson. Thats what they heard from pretty good sources.

But the point was Chia was deadset at moving Hall for a RHS dman, and seemed blind sided by doing so that complete fair value was out the window. Trading for a RHS Dman was needed for the Oilers, but Chia didn't even wait too UFA to see about the Dmen, he made the trade before July 1st.
- DDM-Coga

Links this please. All I know is that the Avs directly said Barrie was going no where. Everything else is conjecture.

PC had talked to Demers...had him go to Edm to wine-n-dine. When 07/01 rolled around that was no where to be seen. I would figure that there was no deal to be had. Who else was there really in UFA? No one, I feel, that was top end that solved the whole 2 RHD needed dilemma the Oil were in.

So PC did what was needed.

I tend to choose to believe that there is more going on behind the scenes that I will ever know about. I choose to believe that PC had had conversations with agents and GMs about acquiring a RHD. UFAs were not in the wheel house, and GMs were resistant to trade equally. Such is the life of the Oiler's GM who is working behind the 8ball.

And thats why its fair to still criticize it, even though he got the RHS dman they needed, but he was still willing to undersell Hall bc he had Lucic already in his back pocket. As a pure trade it justified to criticize it, but as parts of a bigger picture, it could be ok
- DDM-Coga

I don't know that I agree as the market dictates value. If no one else was willing to pay the price he wanted, it's a mangers job to either stand firm on his price at the cost of inaction (what MacT seemed to do) or accept that maybe his valuation of his assets is off-base and bend on his ask (what Chia seemed to do).

Chia had been shopping for Dmen since he was hired so any GM that says "I had no idea he was available, but I would've offered more" isn't doing his job as a GM. Chia had said plenty of times that anyone but Connor was available.

It's just as likely that this was simply the cost of doing business. Without any speculation, I recall Shero saying "if they wanted Larsson, it had to be Hall". That's more than likely a sentiment held across the league as he was trying to find a trade that worked for the past year (he talked to Shero about Larsson the prior draft). He was also quoted multiple times during the year that he wanted to avoid trading Hall. Every sign points toward that being the cost we had to pay.

And the only Dman that would fit the bill we needed had been brought to Edmonton and wined & dined at the same time as Lucic. In the same way as they did with Lucic, I'm sure they had a general idea of his ask.
- MaximumBone

Every team was going to ask for Hall right out of the gates, they wanted to bend the Oilers over the Barrel. Avs asked for Hall for Barrie. Would you been happy about that? I don't think so. At the time yes that was the cost of doing the deal, who knows in 2 weeks after the first wave of UFAs when teams are against the cap or having their UFA plans go down the toilet, maybe you don't have to trade Hall...Eberle or Nuge deals are more enticing for teams, and still get a Top 4 Dman.

Landing Larsson was needed, and in that, a good deal for the Oilers. It just seems like Chia didn't want to play the game with the chance of getting caught with nothing to show for it by waiting it out into UFA season. Underselling Hall will always be criticized but that doesnt mean its a bad trade for the team as a whole. Just under the microscope 1 for 1 trade, it was bad

Links this please. All I know is that the Avs directly said Barrie was going no where. Everything else is conjecture.

PC had talked to Demers...had him go to Edm to wine-n-dine. When 07/01 rolled around that was no where to be seen. I would figure that there was no deal to be had. Who else was there really in UFA? No one, I feel, that was top end that solved the whole 2 RHD needed dilemma the Oil were in.

So PC did what was needed.

I tend to choose to believe that there is more going on behind the scenes that I will ever know about. I choose to believe that PC had had conversations with agents and GMs about acquiring a RHD. UFAs were not in the wheel house, and GMs were resistant to trade equally. Such is the life of the Oiler's GM who is working behind the 8ball.
- McSavioursPupil

It was said on their last podcast
http://bsndenver.com/bsn-...-the-tone-on-concussions/
at the 1hr 7min range

They weren't shopping Barrie. Nor were they shopping Landeskog, but 2 deals presented themselves and if they turned Landy and Barrie into Lindholm and Hall/Drai, they seemed willing to do that, but only that. After relistening to that part, I mis spoke. The Oilers only wanted spare parts for Barrie but Avs were asking for Hall. I thought it was the ducks who didn't want to do the cost of business

See that isn't exactly true at the time. Remember when Mirtle tweeted out that The Avs are up to something big, there was some smoke to it. The guys at BSN Denver who have good sources are pretty comfortable reporting what they heard at the time, is that Avs were talking to the Ducks and to the Oilers in 2 separate deals and wouldnt do 1 without the other. Ducks wanted Landeskog but Avs wouldnt move him unless it was for Lindholm. Oilers wanted Barrie and had the option of Hall or Drai for that deal. As soon as the Ducks pulled out of that deal, the Barrie to Oilers deal didn't see anymore traction and Chia went onto Larsson. Thats what they heard from pretty good sources.

But the point was Chia was deadset at moving Hall for a RHS dman, and seemed blind sided by doing so that complete fair value was out the window. Trading for a RHS Dman was needed for the Oilers, but Chia didn't even wait too UFA to see about the Dmen, he made the trade before July 1st.
- DDM-Coga

This was a pretty subpar UFA class for defensemen

This was a pretty subpar UFA class for defensemen
- Xaos22

It wasn't the greatest, they never are. I like Larsson, don't get me wrong, I think hes going to have a huge impact on the team this season.

For me, it seemed like the deal was rushed getting full value and Chia wanted to get a trade done for a RHS dman before UFA started so he doest get caught up in the hoopla of that season.

It wasn't the greatest, they never are. I like Larsson, don't get me wrong, I think hes going to have a huge impact on the team this season.

For me, it seemed like the deal was rushed getting full value and Chia wanted to get a trade done for a RHS dman before UFA started so he doest get caught up in the hoopla of that season.
- DDM-Coga

How was it rushed? He looked for a defenseman for a full year.

How was it rushed? He looked for a defenseman for a full year.
- Xaos22

He didn't get full value for Hall, to me that is a rushed deal and wasn't willing to wait any longer to find that deal that he does get full value for him. Maybe that deal was never out there...maybe this was the best that he could get, but IMO if you don't get full value for a player that is under a long term contract, its rushed as there was no drop dead date to deal hall like he was a UFA or something.

Didn't chia said they were planning on signing Chia even if they didn't trade hall? How would that even work with Pouliot in the mix too? For me something just doesnt add up in the whole time line of events and thats why I think it was rushed

He didn't get full value for Hall, to me that is a rushed deal and wasn't willing to wait any longer to find that deal that he does get full value for him. Maybe that deal was never out there...maybe this was the best that he could get, but IMO if you don't get full value for a player that is under a long term contract, its rushed as there was no drop dead date to deal hall like he was a UFA or something.

Didn't chia said they were planning on signing Chia even if they didn't trade hall? How would that even work with Pouliot in the mix too? For me something just doesnt add up in the whole time line of events and thats why I think it was rushed
- DDM-Coga

It's all fine and dandy if he said that, but if he acted on it, we'd have been left in absolute dire straits as far as a cap situation. We'd have had Hall, Lucic, Nuge, and Eberle on 6mil cap hits, Draisaitl needing a raise this coming year (assume around 5), and McDavid needing his raise the following (assume at least 9). Pouliot wouldn't have been enough. Going this route would all but guarantee two of those 6mil men (likely Nuge and Eberle) having to be moved a year from now, likely for an even lesser return due to the cap troubles.

They could've moved Nuge or Eberle (likely the former) for a young RHD, but looking at the market, the likeliest candidates would've been Severson or Savard. I don't see that route being more preferable (despite my Severson-boner).

He didn't get full value for Hall, to me that is a rushed deal and wasn't willing to wait any longer to find that deal that he does get full value for him. Maybe that deal was never out there...maybe this was the best that he could get, but IMO if you don't get full value for a player that is under a long term contract, its rushed as there was no drop dead date to deal hall like he was a UFA or something.

Didn't chia said they were planning on signing Chia even if they didn't trade hall? How would that even work with Pouliot in the mix too? For me something just doesnt add up in the whole time line of events and thats why I think it was rushed
- DDM-Coga

What other dman could he have landed that is better than Larsson for Hall?

What other dman could he have landed that is better than Larsson for Hall?
- Xaos22

As I just mentioned, the only other Dman that I can wager were on the market without costing Hall would be Savard, Severson, and maybe Trouba (but that'd take Nurse).

What other dman could he have landed that is better than Larsson for Hall?
- Xaos22

that I do not know, but my point is if you aren't getting the value you want for your best trade asset. Then maybe you should look at other options like Eberle/Nuge for younger less established guys that have top pairing potential. Go the futures route and set yourself up for a year or 2 down the round

A deal like that..if Oilers miss the playoffs but are just outside a WC spot, then I think thats real positive signs that this team is on the track with minimal backlash from media and the fanbase. Honestly if the Oilers are not in the playoffs are a few points out, the Hall trade is going to back for another full round of debate. For the fanbases sake, I hope to god they make the playoffs this year

What other dman could he have landed that is better than Larsson for Hall?
- Xaos22

Hall wasn't made available until recently. Rishaug and others said if he had been made available earlier there could have been a better return. Rishaug said Jones plus could have been had if it was Hall going back to Nash.

Hall wasn't made available until recently. Rishaug and others said if he had been made available earlier there could have been a better return. Rishaug said Jones plus could have been had if it was Hall going back to Nash.
- Iggysbff

Highly doubt that. Besides, it's not like you to listen to MSM You're usually the first to strike down or try to discredit this type of quote.

that I do not know, but my point is if you aren't getting the value you want for your best trade asset. Then maybe you should look at other options like Eberle/Nuge for younger less established guys that have top pairing potential. Go the futures route and set yourself up for a year or 2 down the round

A deal like that..if Oilers miss the playoffs but are just outside a WC spot, then I think thats real positive signs that this team is on the track with minimal backlash from media and the fanbase. Honestly if the Oilers are not in the playoffs are a few points out, the Hall trade is going to back for another full round of debate. For the fanbases sake, I hope to god they make the playoffs this year
- DDM-Coga

We already tried that with Reinhart. Hasn't worked out very well. We needed a 1st pairing right handed shot dman. Now we have one. Plus we picked up one of my favourite players in Lucic. I'm happy

that I do not know, but my point is if you aren't getting the value you want for your best trade asset. Then maybe you should look at other options like Eberle/Nuge for younger less established guys that have top pairing potential. Go the futures route and set yourself up for a year or 2 down the round

A deal like that..if Oilers miss the playoffs but are just outside a WC spot, then I think thats real positive signs that this team is on the track with minimal backlash from media and the fanbase. Honestly if the Oilers are not in the playoffs are a few points out, the Hall trade is going to back for another full round of debate. For the fanbases sake, I hope to god they make the playoffs this year
- DDM-Coga

If you'll recall, that was the route I was in heavy support of, but most here weren't a fan of moving Nuge for anything less than a proven top pairing guy and Eberle more than likely wouldn't have been enough. I suggested Nuge for Severson (the likely cost it would've taken) ad nauseum and the reaction I was met with every time was mostly super negative. Same goes for Savard.

So no, I doubt the optics or reaction of/to the situation would've been any better, we'd still have sold low on one of our prime pieces, and I don't think the team would've been much better off- if at all.

Hall wasn't made available until recently. Rishaug and others said if he had been made available earlier there could have been a better return. Rishaug said Jones plus could have been had if it was Hall going back to Nash.
- Iggysbff

Meh. I like Jones too but I'm happy with Larsson.

We already tried that with Reinhart. Hasn't worked out very well. We needed a 1st pairing right handed shot dman. Now we have one. Plus we picked up one of my favourite players in Lucic. I'm happy
- Xaos22

well Reinhart deal was just silly from the start. Thats not the target you go after in a futures deal, he only had 8 games of NHL experience. I don't think thats 16th overall worthy.

Like I said, I don't think the deal and pieces that have shuffled in and out are bad. Oilers sacrificed top end talent for more depth throughout the line up. It could pay off, just the deal by itself, full value wasn't achieved .

If you'll recall, that was the route I was in heavy support of, but most here weren't a fan of moving Nuge for anything less than a proven top pairing guy and Eberle more than likely wouldn't have been enough. I suggested Nuge for Severson (the likely cost it would've taken) ad nauseum and the reaction I was met with every time was mostly super negative. Same goes for Savard.

So no, I doubt the optics or reaction of/to the situation would've been any better, we'd still have sold low on one of our prime pieces, and I don't think the team would've been much better off- if at all.
- MaximumBone

I think Nuge is gonna have a big bounceback year and make a lot of teams regret not taking him in a trade when they had the chance.

If you'll recall, that was the route I was in heavy support of, but most here weren't a fan of moving Nuge for anything less than a proven top pairing guy and Eberle more than likely wouldn't have been enough. I suggested Nuge for Severson (the likely cost it would've taken) ad nauseum and the reaction I was met with every time was mostly super negative. Same goes for Savard.

So no, I doubt the optics or reaction of/to the situation would've been any better, we'd still have sold low on one of our prime pieces, and I don't think the team would've been much better off- if at all.
- MaximumBone

fair enough. Future packages are not always met with support, especially from a playoff starved fan base. But I agree with this, sakic mentioned it when he tired for the longest time to get a top 4 dman, was that its almost impossible to trade fairly for them, the best way to get one is to draft and develop it yourself.

They sold off ROR (different situation based on his contract status) for a futures package built around Zadorov. It could work out, he reaches all his potential and is that true top pairing stud. But they did sacrifice solid talent for this, I support the idea of the deal but who knows, could be a disaster. At least they got more depth out of it all that can turn into other assets if it doesnt work out.