Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Laviolette and Balancing the Revisionist History

Certainly rooting for Lavy myself. His teams were some of the most fun to watch in my time as a diehard hockey fan. Most of my favorite memories involve his teams.

It is fun to think about what he would be like as the coach once the team's prospects begin to make it to the NHL. It is a lot different from trying to watch Hal Gill on the backend

Not so much about why the fired Lava, it's the time they did it and who the next two replacements were.

Why Lappy is still employed is questionable in my eyes as well. Time to raise our standards.

I also would like to know how someone could seriously watch the Predators, specifically Pekka Rinne, and tell me Steve Mason couldn't get a team to the finals and win a Stanley Cup. He is better than Rinne and has gone on stretches before where he plays very well.

The goalie drama the Flyers are "known for" is self inflicted

By the way, where was the "pining for Bob" crowd last year during Bobrovsky's injury-plagued 2015-16 down season in which he posted the very same .908 save percentage that they pilloried Steve Mason for throughout his staccato 2016-17 campaign? Where have they been this month after Bobrovsky followed up his likely Vezina Trophy-winning regular season with a rough playoff series against Pittsburgh?

I also don't remember too much talk about Lavi during the regular season as the Predators finished 16th equal overall, a mere 6 points ahead of the 19th place Flyers.

"Many of the same group that incessantly whined about the Flyers "giving up" on Sergei Bobrovsky are now leading the "Flyers never should have fired Peter Laviolette" bandwagon. They are either unaware or simply choose to ignore the fact that there is a lot of self-contradiction in trying to espouse both sentiments"

A Flyers fan called WIP yesterday and ask Jones why the Flyers didn't get Forsberg. every player passed in the draft is female doged about, every free agent not signed is female doged about, every player traded away is female doged about. Nothing said when the Flyers find players like Ghost in the 3rd round and Lindblom in the 5th round or Myers as an undrafted kid.

funny thing, ALL teams pass on good players in the draft, all teams trade away players that do well elsewhere, all teams even make bad trades. etc etc.

Obviously some teams do better than others and no doubt the Flyers need to draft better under Hextall than they did under Holmgren but its silly to think this doesn't go on with every NHL franchise

I also would like to know how someone could seriously watch the Predators, specifically Pekka Rinne, and tell me Steve Mason couldn't get a team to the finals and win a Stanley Cup. He is better than Rinne and has gone on stretches before where he plays very well.

The goalie drama the Flyers are "known for" is self inflicted
- YuenglingJagr

I agree with you. Rinne is a three-time Vezina finalist under the Trotz-coached teams, but I don't think he's a miracle worker by any means. Under Trotz, he played in systems that put the goalie in position to succeed -- just as Holtby has after Trotz went to Washington. Now, under Lavy, some of his flaws are more exposed but when the team is clicking on all cylinders, he is put in position to succeed PLUS he gets more goal support than he ever had in the Trotz era in Nashville.

I remember hearing during a CBJ game, that Lavy told people in Columbus how much they'll love Bob's work ethic. I remember thinking, if that was the case, why didn't he stick with him in the 2011 playoffs?

It seems there are coaches who put their system, and by extension themselves, ahead of the team. You've got to work with what you've got much the way Roger Neilson did when he coached in Florida.

Certainly rooting for Lavy myself. His teams were some of the most fun to watch in my time as a diehard hockey fan. Most of my favorite memories involve his teams.

It is fun to think about what he would be like as the coach once the team's prospects begin to make it to the NHL. It is a lot different from trying to watch Hal Gill on the backend
- YuenglingJagr

I've been rooting for Nashville in the west simply because I love the city. One of my favorite cities i've been to

Fine stuff Bill and I agree with your assessment of the Flyers/Lavi situation 100%

(Quote nastyflyergirl)

Very true. I think a big part of fan frustration, or at least those that find the alumni nights irrelevant is the lack of recent success.

I've been a true 'hardcore' fan since that '04 run. I was 13 at that point.

I don't blame youngers fans one second for being frustrated with the organization.

I remember hearing during a CBJ game, that Lavy told people in Columbus how much they'll love Bob's work ethic. I remember thinking, if that was the case, why didn't he stick with him in the 2011 playoffs?

It seems there are coaches who put their system, and by extension themselves, ahead of the team. You've got to work with what you've got much the way Roger Neilson did when he coached in Florida.
- fls13

Thing with Sergei, he has been questionable in the playoffs himself. Throw in a touch of injury history and a huge contact, looks a little ugly.

I think only a small amount of goaltenders are guys you can consistently rely on to be big game changers in your favour. Most run hot/cold and let in their own share of weak goals.

Rinne is a career .917 goalie, .919 in the playoffs.

Mason is a career .911 goalie, .895 in the playoffs.

But since Mason is "better" and the Flyers goalie drama is self inflicted, I'm sure teams around the league will be lining up to give him a big contract this summer.

(Quote nastyflyergirl)

Very true. I think a big part of fan frustration, or at least those that find the alumni nights irrelevant is the lack of recent success.

I've been a true 'hardcore' fan since that '04 run. I was 13 at that point.

I don't blame youngers fans one second for being frustrated with the organization.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not trying to absolve the organization, but I do believe there was an elevated sense of urgency to win at all costs with Snider s age and declining health. If I was the owner, I would have done the same thing. The major problem for decades has been to consistently draft prospects who make it to the NHL and make a significant impact.

We're about to find out whether Hextall can reverse this trend. We have very good prospects. The problem is there just prospects and have proven nothing to this point.

(Quote nastyflyergirl)

Very true. I think a big part of fan frustration, or at least those that find the alumni nights irrelevant is the lack of recent success.

I've been a true 'hardcore' fan since that '04 run. I was 13 at that point.

I don't blame youngers fans one second for being frustrated with the organization.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think someone needs to have lived through something to learn from and to understand history. That includes the fact that all 30 NHL franchises (we'll exclude Vegas) goes through ebbs and flows and that long Cup droughts -- the better part of two decades and often much more -- are eventually part of every franchise's history even if they've often been contenders for much of the drought.

I especially find cherry picking draft years to be a cynical exercise. One could easily make every organization out to look terrible because they passed on so-and-so and chose player-x instead. Truly understanding the draft is to look at the big picture and understand what an inexact science it really it.

funny thing, ALL teams pass on good players in the draft, all teams trade away players that do well elsewhere, all teams even make bad trades. etc etc.

Obviously some teams do better than others and no doubt the Flyers need to draft better under Hextall than they did under Holmgren but its silly to think this doesn't go on with every NHL franchise
- nastyflyergirl

While I agree and I obviously know the complaining about it gets taken too far on here (and among casual fans), I don't think you can chalk up every bad decision the team has made as "something that all teams do." Certain decisions were terrible the moment they were made

(Quote nastyflyergirl)

Very true. I think a big part of fan frustration, or at least those that find the alumni nights irrelevant is the lack of recent success.

I've been a true 'hardcore' fan since that '04 run. I was 13 at that point.

I don't blame youngers fans one second for being frustrated with the organization.
- flyer_nutter

Agreed, it you are a young fan, there's not been much to cheer about since the lockout, especially when compared to earlier eras in Flyers history.

12 seasons, missed the playoffs in 4 of them and one and done in 4 more. Winning 7 rounds in 12 seasons, and besides the run to the finals in 2010, only 4 rounds in 11, isn't going to satisfy a fan base desperate for a championship.

I'm down with the way Hextall is trying to build a contender, but I can also understand why a lot of fans are frustrated.

Thing with Sergei, he has been questionable in the playoffs himself. Throw in a touch of injury history and a huge contact, looks a little ugly.

I think only a small amount of goaltenders are guys you can consistently rely on to be big game changers in your favour. Most run hot/cold and let in their own share of weak goals.
- flyer_nutter

When CBJ has made in in, it's been a bit of a mismatch for them so I've watched little of either of their series. They pushed DET, I think it was, to 6 and got wiped by PGH, who I think would have done the same thing to the Caps if Crosby hadn't gotten hurt.

Rinne is a career .917 goalie, .919 in the playoffs.

Mason is a career .911 goalie, .895 in the playoffs.

But since Mason is "better" and the Flyers goalie drama is self inflicted, I'm sure teams around the league will be lining up to give him a big contract this summer.
- Feanor

Put Rinne on those Columbus teams and the Flyers of the last few years and put a matured Mason (since Rinne broke into the NHL quite a bit later in age) on the Trotz and current Lavy Preds. You'd see the career save percentages reversed. In fact, I doubt Rinne would have matched Mason's .918 save percentage that he had in Philly these years. It is the Columbus post-rookie numers that pull down Mason's totals.

Bill,

An excellent summation of how the Lavy era wound down.

IMHO he and Holmgren seemed to get out of sync with Homer bringing in players not as suited to Lavy's system as what John Stevens would have run. Add Pronger's injury and Kimmo wearing down...and the less said about the Bob/Bryz mess the better....

It really, in retrospect was an era of over reactionary management as apposed to managing your team to make it the best it can be.

Rinne is a career .917 goalie, .919 in the playoffs.

Mason is a career .911 goalie, .895 in the playoffs.

But since Mason is "better" and the Flyers goalie drama is self inflicted, I'm sure teams around the league will be lining up to give him a big contract this summer.
- Feanor

very true regarding Lavy....even the best coaches have shelf lives with teams....I liked him as a coach but I remember it being fairly obvious that change was needed. As far as bringing in Bryz, that was just a blunder, pure and simple. Its not like he wasn't known as a flake at his previous stops, Yes the owner probably had a hand in it, and that's probably why owners hire Hockey guys to run their teams . I didn't like the trade getting rid of Bob, but from what has been reported by Bill suggests it may have been inevitable after Bryz was signed to a monster contract. The one trade that will always puzzle me was the Schenn deal for JVR....I guess I got to see to much of Schenn as a leaf. After his rookie year, he really seemed to loose confidence and regressed to what the Flyers traded for.
I have always viewed the Flyers as a very aggressive team prior to Hextall with regards to big moves, you have to take the good with the bad.....and the Flyers have also made some extremely good moves along the way.

I don't think someone needs to have lived through something to learn from and to understand history. That includes the fact that all 30 NHL franchises (we'll exclude Vegas) goes through ebbs and flows and that long Cup droughts -- the better part of two decades and often much more -- are eventually part of every franchise's history even if they've often been contenders for much of the drought.

I especially find cherry picking draft years to be a cynical exercise. One could easily make every organization out to look terrible because they passed on so-and-so and chose player-x instead. Truly understanding the draft is to look at the big picture and understand what an inexact science it really it.
- bmeltzer

True enough. I think a lot of folks don't think rationally when it comes to their favourite sports team, and they also know it (and are ok with that). For many, it's simply something to watch for some entertainment and take your mind off of dumb things in life.

Kum bah yah and all.

While I agree and I obviously know the complaining about it gets taken too far on here (and among casual fans), I don't think you can chalk up every bad decision the team has made as "something that all teams do." Certain decisions were terrible the moment they were made
- YuenglingJagr

and all teams do that. Who didn't see the Erat for Forsberg trade and say wth is Washington doing? I know i did. as i said I agree the drafting direction needs to be better under Hextall than it was under Holmgren. No more Klotz type picks where even someone like myself who doesn't get the opportunity to watch much junior hockey knew it was a head scratcher. We shall see how the Hextall drafts pan out but I believe most will agree his direction seems very good.

Put Rinne on those Columbus teams and the Flyers of the last few years and put a matured Mason (since Rinne broke into the NHL quite a bit later in age) on the Trotz and current Lavy Preds. You'd see the career save percentages reversed. In fact, I doubt Rinne would have matched Mason's .918 save percentage that he had in Philly these years. It is the Columbus post-rookie numers that pull down Mason's totals.
- bmeltzer

When Rinne was approaching free agency in his late 20s he had a 64 game season at .930 then a 73 game season at .923. That's how he got his big contract. He's carried a huge load in goal for Nashville every year in the league since 08-09, except 13-14 when he had that bad hip injury that required surgery.

Not being able to perform at that level is why Mason is heading into free agency with an uncertain future. Unfortunately for him, the guys who think he's better than Rinne are posting on message boards, instead of running NHL teams.