http://edmontonjournal.co...oilers-headed-for-buy-out
- TheTrob

Thanks for doing that

Beniot, is a good skater with some size. would not be a bad 3rd line LW for the hawks.

mc79hockey @mc79hockey
Without looking, take a guess where Benoit Pouliot is in 5v5 PTS/60, 2007-14.

mc79hockey @mc79hockey
Answer is 77 out of 319 F. Some third line forward.

mc79hockey @mc79hockey
Pouliot’s played at least 120 minutes in a season with 39 skaters over the past four years. How many of those saw their Corsi improve w him?

mc79hockey @mc79hockey
Actual answer there is 34/39 players who played at least 120 minutes with Pouliot did better with him than without

In 14-15 and 15-16, he had 1.99 points/60 - third on the Oilers (McDavid, Hall)

Same two years, +2.1 CF%rel - sixth on the Oilers.

16-17: 1.08 points/60, -1.6 CF%rel.
- kmw4631

Wow, nice work here sir. No doubt nice size and a good skater but those are some nice fancy says by any measure and doubtful would be available if not for a very poor year last season.

Personally, I'm not a huge analytics guy. I think there's obviously a place for both the numbers game and the gut feeling.

Some guys can have bad stats with one team, but get traded and things turn around. I think the system/style and coaching of an organization should be taken into account, too. Some guys shine for certain teams, while others don't--just depends.
- Hank3Henshaw

See: Panik, Richard.

I agree with you on both points.

The other thing that gets lost in translation with the numbers game is all the stuff that isn't recorded on the stats sheet.

Sure, player X doesn't might not hit certain numbers, but all those times he went into the hard spots and came out with the puck or took a hit to make a play, don't get recorded on a piece of paper. So the stats are certainly not the end-all-be-all.

It's interesting how they're starting to really dominate pro sports--especially if you look at baseball.
- Hank3Henshaw

They do, but a few caveats. Baseball stats go back much longer and deeper, and guys like Bill James, STATS Inc. and others have been developing and refining metrics much longer. Baseball is also a much less fluid game and easier to define and quantify measurable events. Also, as much as everyone points to Billy Bean and "Moneyball", most fail to understand or know that the A's never won the World Series.

Thanks for doing that
- RickJ

See: Panik, Richard.
- CanOCorn

Perfect example

Wow, nice work here sir. No doubt nice size and a good skater but those are some nice fancy says by any measure and doubtful would be available if not for a very poor year last season.
- Mr Ricochet

Read the article then see if you feel the same way,

Columbus Blue Jackets Buy Out Scott Hartnell
June 29th, 2017 at 12:32pm CST • By Gavin Lee
The Columbus Blue Jackets have bought out the remaining two years on Scott Hartnell‘s contract, making him a free agent.
- walleyeb1

let's get 'im!

Read the article then see if you feel the same way,
- TheTrob

My work internet filter decided Edmonton journal is malicious.

They do, but a few caveats. Baseball stats go back much longer and deeper, and guys like Bill James, STATS Inc. and others have been developing and refining metrics much longer. Baseball is also a much less fluid game and easier to define and quantify measurable events. Also, as much as everyone points to Billy Bean and "Moneyball", most fail to understand or know that the A's never won the World Series.
- TheTrob

Oh, yea. I agree, but it's still insane to me. Like, I never understood the drive to want to know stats and things like that. Baseball is notorious for ridiculously deep stats and they keep track of things no one should ever know. Haha.

Right with you on the Moneyball thing. They never actually won anything, yet, they're praised like crazy. Don't get me wrong, what they built was pretty impressive with the money they had and relying largely on stats, but at the end of the day, it never helped them win the championship back then and still nothing today.

Right on Mr. ricochet, I had my eye onthat kid even before Dale picked him in Florida,I wonder what the plans are for him in Arizona and if Bowmans people are even interested in him,I am hoping there is some wheels to the Boone Jenner talk that would shut a lot of guys like myself up for a while since we have all been pining for the next Al Secord type player,I am also thrilled with Brandon Saad is back, I did not shed a tear at the loss of Artemi Panerin,yes he'll score goals but also felt he is a one trick pony. Now I hope the next move they make is sending Nick Schmaltz packing, unless I am proved wrong and I know people bring up the excuse about his age and his first year in the league you can't teach heart and you can't teach Gotts when it comes to playoff hockey, send him packing!
- wonthecup10

10, I would over pay for a Jenner. I love north-south fast guys who will knock you down, twice, before they score. CLB is full of those guys and honestly I'd rather watch that group hit on all cylinders and win than the Hawks win. It's just more fun seeing a group freakishly big, freakishly fast, nasty players run wild hitting everything in sight before they finish. Hair on fire physical hockey with a few skilled guys that can finish.

But that style alone just doesn't win cups no matter how fun to watch. You still need the elite finishers to end up being the difference or you won't win a cup. How many teams were gonna pound the Hawks into submission but the Hawk speed and skill won out. Same with the Pens............ In the end you just can't win without the speed and skill. Not saying the Jenner's and Bickell's can't fit into that but they can't be the primary focus.

My work internet filter decided Edmonton journal is malicious.
- JRoenick97

To many people any Media/press is malicious

In summary the article basically points out that advanced stats be damned, Pouliot is/was not really a good player.

Read the article then see if you feel the same way,
- TheTrob

Which article, gimme a link.

Sign Hartnell for 2 years, $5M. He can more than able play the 2nd line with Kane and with AA or Schmaltz at center.

Sign Pouliot for 1 year, $1.5-$2M. There's your 3LW.

Gives the Hawks some flexibility if they decide to trade AA (assuming Kruger is a goner) for potentially a young forward or defenseman.

Saad-Toews-Panik
Hartnell-AA (or Schmaltz)-Kane
Pouliot-Schmaltz (or Dauphin)-Hartman
xxx-Vet good at FO & PK-xxx
- Dannyboy

Hartnell may be on the back end of his career, but he's always had what you can't teach--he knows how to put the puck in the net, AND he's pain in the butt to play against. Love to see him a Hawk

Analytics can be hard because you can sometimes tailor them to any argument you are making for a player. I try to stay neutral in looking at them. I think L_B_R does a good job here too.
- JRoenick97

I think Sharpie has a 3-4 month rehab term after hip surgery. Not a good thing for a vet his age. And I doubt he wants to play for $1M on a one year deal.

I'm looking for bigger, younger, faster and with a very sour, nasty disposition toward opponents.
- RickJ

Explosion + compete. A dynamic player(s) who is explosive.

http://edmontonjournal.co...oilers-headed-for-buy-out
- TheTrob

I have a gut feeling we take a look at Michael Del Zotto real hard. Guy is a good 4-6D with decent numbers. Pretty middle of the road guy, like Oduya was.

- riozzo

Thanks for doing that
- RickJ

Been with 5 teams in last 7 years...That happens because a player is a good value or no one wants him after his act wears thin. In this case he isn't a good value.

- resqmed99

Nice!

Oh, yea. I agree, but it's still insane to me. Like, I never understood the drive to want to know stats and things like that. Baseball is notorious for ridiculously deep stats and they keep track of things no one should ever know. Haha.

Right with you on the Moneyball thing. They never actually won anything, yet, they're praised like crazy. Don't get me wrong, what they built was pretty impressive with the money they had and relying largely on stats, but at the end of the day, it never helped them win the championship back then and still nothing today.
- Hank3Henshaw

There is a happy medium somewhere between numbers and gut. I think the issues rear their ugly heads when you base decisions too heavily on one side of the equation.

Take the Panthers the last few years as an example. Didn't they go to a GM that relied heavily on advanced stats? How well did that work for them until they brought the ultimate "gut" guy in Tallon back?.

Hockey more than any other sport is fluid enough that stats only mean so much. As I posit, the numbers will backup what at most times your eyes can see.

Hartnell may be on the back end of his career, but he's always had what you can't teach--he knows how to put the puck in the net, AND he's pain in the butt to play against. Love to see him a Hawk
- Kewl1

Yea man!! One might ask why he's being bought out by CLB. IMO it's because his skill set is redundant throughout the Jackets lineup. Jenner, Dubinsky, Anderson, Calvert, Foligno. ....They traded for Panarin and now are after Kovulchuk. The have what Hartnell brings all over but need finishers. I think they move Hartnell for the cap space to sign another elite finisher.

I have a gut feeling we take a look at Michael Del Zotto real hard. Guy is a good 4-6D with decent numbers. Pretty middle of the road guy, like Oduya was.
- JRoenick97

As I have said before, I am very weary of Del Zotto, especially with how we run our speed game. He would have to play with 7 as the Hawks would definitely need a huge helper on his opposite side on defense.

We had this Swedish defenseman on the team recently that we just lost that would have been a great pairing should we end up acquiring Del Zotto..........

You might change your mind on Pouliot after reading David Staples article in the Edmonton Journal about the buyout.

I just don't know how to post it on here, sorry.
- RickJ

Didn't want the Hawks to go for him to begin , but now I really really really really don't want them tomake him an offer. Nice slap at ananalytics too