NHLSourcesSay‏ @NHLSourcesSay 9m9 minutes ago
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Sam Gagner leaning towards signing with #Blackhawks, great fit + chance to win.
- KMFDMLight

I felt in the past that Gagner would be a good add to the hawks, but after all of the discussion about his numbers and playing style, not so sure...but maybe as JJ says, its all about context. Maybe he excels in the hawks system...

Those things are actually covered in stats - they just are readily available to be scrapped into a neat, easy to represent number immediately. There are two tracking projects run by fans at the moment that do look at things like board battles or hit/recover plays or passing types/style and that data is release slowly over the span of a season. There used to be more but the people who started them then got hired by NHL teams.

There is also Sportlogiq where you can pay for there player tracking data. NHL uses SAP, which does this a little, but none of that data is released.
- L_B_R

Excellent insight

You've def cemented yourself as the Hawks blog stats guy!

Those things are actually covered in stats - they just are readily available to be scrapped into a neat, easy to represent number immediately. There are two tracking projects run by fans at the moment that do look at things like board battles or hit/recover plays or passing types/style and that data is release slowly over the span of a season. There used to be more but the people who started them then got hired by NHL teams.

There is also Sportlogiq where you can pay for there player tracking data. NHL uses SAP, which does this a little, but none of that data is released.
- L_B_R

They seriously use SAP?? I use it in my work, and let me tell you, it is not very user friendly or intuitive, unless they have improved it in the last 15 years since we purchased it...

Kane backchecks sometimes far deeper into his own zone than responsible for. Kane is about winning and doing whatever is required to win.
- Z3Hawk

And Kaner wasn't always that way. I give the guy credit he had to learn to be hungry and backcheck he wasn't born that way. ........ His compete is worlds better than his first few years in the league.

I felt in the past that Gagner would be a good add to the hawks, but after all of the discussion about his numbers and playing style, not so sure...but maybe as JJ says, its all about context. Maybe he excels in the hawks system...
- ToewsdNKanefusd

I'm not big on Gagner, but if the price is very reasonable then I could live with the signing.

I felt in the past that Gagner would be a good add to the hawks, but after all of the discussion about his numbers and playing style, not so sure...but maybe as JJ says, its all about context. Maybe he excels in the hawks system...
- ToewsdNKanefusd

Gagner, for his warts, is a highly instinctive hockey player. Not a bruiser at all and has mostly played on crap teams his entire career, but he has great hockey acumen and enough skill and skating to be a force I believe. Last year was the best team he was ever on and he went out for 50 points. You gotta think he could easily go +60 playing with Kaner. Also, the dude is ONLY 27 years old, but it seems like he has been in the NHL for 10 years. We've seen the good (and bad) of Gagner, but this is a move I kinda like and if Bowman can get it done for a reasonable price I give plus marks here.

Which stats are you looking at for Hartnell? You always seem to have good QoC info. I can only usually find Corsi stuff and shot suppression stuffk.
- JRoenick97

I was looking at the CBJ usage chart on HockeyAbstract, which uses data from NST. He faced the 2nd lower QOC - Gagner was the lowest. If you focused on just his latter half, he'd be pretty much same as Gagner as they started him out higher.

Earlier, you mentioned 'Opposition corsi' - do you mean his QOC CF%? Or do you mean when he was on the ice specifically? Because low QOC CF% means he faced low QOC, not that the CF was low for his competition. Though being good at 3rd comp is still be good.

My work internet filter decided Edmonton journal is malicious.
- JRoenick97

Besides the author they quoted 37 other people in the piece how Pouliat was lazy, only played on the perimeter, is a bum, won't hit, isn't hungry, are proving the fancy stat people wrong as his fancy numbers were solid until the last yr or two.

That's why I loved the 2010 team - they could play anyway you wanted and they took the body...Buff/Brouwer/Versteeg/Bolland/Ladd

I'd like to see them going after Hartnell...especially to keep him off the Preds squad. Interesting to see what happens with the Hossa cap hit...loving all the whining by the other teams...don't they get it...we'd rather have Hossa playing for us. And as JJ mentions signed off by doctors/trainers etc...Bettman and his boys can take a frankin' hike on this...
- DK002

And they were hungry, man. Then came cap hell.

They seriously use SAP?? I use it in my work, and let me tell you, it is not very user friendly or intuitive, unless they have improved it in the last 15 years since we purchased it...
- ToewsdNKanefusd

There are different releases.

And Kaner wasn't always that way. I give the guy credit he had to learn to be hungry and backcheck he wasn't born that way. ........ His compete is worlds better than his first few years in the league.
- Mr Ricochet

Those things are actually covered in stats - they just aren't readily available to be scrapped into a neat, easy to represent number immediately. There are two tracking projects run by fans at the moment that do look at things like board battles or hit/recover plays or passing types/style and that data is release slowly over the span of a season. There used to be more but the people who started them then got hired by NHL teams.

There is also Sportlogiq where you can pay for there player tracking data. NHL uses SAP, which does this a little, but none of that data is released.
- L_B_R

But certain stats are still based on subjective tests. Such as, what is considered a hit, and why is it measured differently in every arena? It's like "defensive range" stats in baseball. Each person/team/rater has a different criteria or idea about exactly what the metric means and is.

I felt in the past that Gagner would be a good add to the hawks, but after all of the discussion about his numbers and playing style, not so sure...but maybe as JJ says, its all about context. Maybe he excels in the hawks system...
- ToewsdNKanefusd

I think Gagner can fit in the bottom 6, as a PP specialist and fill in for an injury in the top 6. Wish his faceoff numbers were better though. All depends on term and hit.

But certain stats are still based on subjective tests. Such as, what is considered a hit, and why is it measured differently in every arena? It's like "defensive range" stats in baseball. Each person/team/rater has a different criteria or idea about exactly what the metric means and is.
- TheTrob

The BH's on cup runs when out hit prove that that stat is worthless.

Gagner on your third line= very good shape
Gagner on second line= not contending

They seriously use SAP?? I use it in my work, and let me tell you, it is not very user friendly or intuitive, unless they have improved it in the last 15 years since we purchased it...
- ToewsdNKanefusd

SAP has some advanced database and reporting tools using HANA databases that are more user friendly. It's not like their ERP and enterprise software that is stunningly cumbersome.

SAP has some advanced database and reporting tools using HANA databases that are more user friendly. It's not like their ERP and enterprise software that is stunningly cumbersome.
- TheTrob

As a long time user i would add it is:

Indeed, and that's the concern about a Hartnell and I'm in the Hartnell camp. The term, cap hit and where the player is slotted (see Gagner last year) have to be right.

I'm with you Darth. If you're gonna make a mistake don't do it with oldish, slowish vets with term or cap hit do it with what is in house or a vet on a one year deal. Easier to cut those mistakes loose.
- Mr Ricochet

Have to wonder what it'd take to sign Hartnell since he was bought out and is being paid by the Jackets?

Have to wonder what it'd take to sign Hartnell since he was bought out and is being paid by the Jackets?
- walleyeb1

But why, he is old and slow. Can't we find some young and fast players with Grit. Not a fan of the player retreads... Panik worked out, more like that...

Gagner on your third line= very good shape
Gagner on second line= not contending
- kevndevries

What about E.Kane-Gagner-P.Kane as your second line??

Headline next October: 'Blackhawks really miss Hammer'. What a disaster that trade was.

Headline next October: 'Blackhawks really miss Hammer'. What a disaster that trade was.
- Savoy

Don't you ever get tired of the pot shots?

Headline next October: 'Blackhawks really miss Hammer'. What a disaster that trade was.
- Savoy

I'll miss Hjalmarsson as much as the next fan, but this deal was made for the long term and beyond just one year. Next season Hjalmarsson will be better that Murphy in all likelihood, but the deal set-up the team better for the future. In 2 years if Stan signed Hjalmarsson for 6 years @ $6 million per people would complain (rightfully so). If Stan let Hjalmarsson walk as a free agent people would complain.

Headline next October: 'Blackhawks really miss Hammer'. What a disaster that trade was.
- Savoy

Headline next October: 'Blackhawks really miss Panarin. What a disaster that trade was.
- Savoy

Fixed it for you, bud.