I am as much pro-skill as anyone but I won't give a sh*t about a HERO chart when Reaves is menacing Erik Karlsson on the forecheck or pummeling Dubinskys face... - YouMeAndDupuis9
I mean what's the baseline here? What does Tom Wilson's spreadsheet look like?
He certainly inflicted a lot of pain on Penguins players. Doesn't have to be star players to have an impact.
Kunitz was our most physical forward, who did he hit more than twice? Were they as impactful or as pain inducing as a hit by Reaves? I can tell you I did not enjoy watching the Pens play St. Louis as I was just waiting for Reaves to catch Guentzel with his head down or Letang admiring a pass or Dumoulin scurrying back to retreive a dump in.
This stuff has an effect, and it's not as simply quantifiable as how many times hes hit certain players... - YouMeAndDupuis9
It's not that I'm impatient, it's that I'm not sure what the direction is that he is trying to steer the Pens. When he does acquire that 3C.. I think it'll say a lot. Hopefully the Reaves thing satisfied his toughness need and he can get back to acquiring skilled hockey players. - j.boyd919
He already said he's done with adding "toughness".
I wasn't a big fan of the Reeves move either, but I never viewed it as organizational shift in thinking. I'm quite confident JR will get a 3C that can actually play the game.
He already said he's done with adding "toughness".
I wasn't a big fan of the Reeves move either, but I never viewed it as organizational shift in thinking. I'm quite confident JR will get a 3C that can actually play the game. - madmike71
Exactly. Rutherford has made some great moves and some questionable ones, the great moves have been fantastic for us and the questionable ones haven't hurt us really at all in hindsight. Just like you, I have full confidence that he's going to bring in a great player. They didn't make a prominent role for Ventura to not utilize him either.
Location: Drinking the tears of the defeated from Lord Stanley's chalice. Joined: 01.18.2007
Jul 5 @ 5:49 PM ET
Here is an exercise for everyone that should be fun:
-Assume for the moment that GMJR gets the Pens a 3C that is an adequate replacement for Bonino.
-Assume that the Pens have a healthy core group going into the playoffs in April 2018 (87,71,58,30,81)
Look at the various roster moves out there so far and tell me what team in the east if any has made enough moves to be a serious contender at a level against a healthy Pens next year. I'm not sure that I would favor any Eastern Conference team against the Pens at this point. My point being that yes, the Pens have stuff to figure out, and sure there has been some attrition, but everyone else has issues too. Yes, there are other shoes to drop, and health is a huge factor, but I still like where the Pens are at.
Sure, if you're going to compare Ryan Reaves to some beer league hockey player off the street, of course he is skilled. But if you're going to compare him to his peers... he's not good.
- j.boyd919
How in the world are Reaves and Doan "peers?" Doan is an old power forward. Reaves is a younger energy/enforcer guy. They're not comparable. Here's the noteworthy chart for this comparison:
Exactly. Rutherford has made some great moves and some questionable ones, the great moves have been fantastic for us and the questionable ones haven't hurt us really at all in hindsight. Just like you, I have full confidence that he's going to bring in a great player. They didn't make a prominent role for Ventura to not utilize him either. - rbaurle51
Reeves chart shows a guy who can suppress shots. For the worst offensive guy on the team it is fine. If it Reeves might kick in 7 goals next year versus maybe 13 from whoever else we would put on that line. It's fine. And if it makes Crosby feel safer or even eliminates a little then Crosby will kick in far more production than what Reeves costs. It's not like we are adding a well-ages Craig Adams. Reeves is a good defensive forward who gives a little offense and a lot of protection. I haven't seen reeves play but I'm assuming from what I've heard that we added a smarter Tom Wilson. Wilson seems to take out 1 or 2 pwnguins every playoffs so keeping him in line alone is enough.
Here is an exercise for everyone that should be fun:
-Assume for the moment that GMJR gets the Pens a 3C that is an adequate replacement for Bonino.
-Assume that the Pens have a healthy core group going into the playoffs in April 2018 (87,71,58,30,81)
Look at the various roster moves out there so far and tell me what team in the east if any has made enough moves to be a serious contender at a level against a healthy Pens next year. I'm not sure that I would favor any Eastern Conference team against the Pens at this point. My point being that yes, the Pens have stuff to figure out, and sure there has been some attrition, but everyone else has issues too. Yes, there are other shoes to drop, and health is a huge factor, but I still like where the Pens are at.
Thoughts? - Emperor Filonius
We are still favorites in the east. Columbus got better. Capitals got a lot worse. Toronto is likely our top threat.
I don't think we can drill gmjr in getting reeves. It's not a horrible move. But it also came from Crosby who said he wants a guy like that on the team. If Crosby asks for protection then you go get him protection.
The only problems were back up goalie, 3C and defensive depth, really.
Hunwick is going to be great for the 3rd pair and PK. Book it.
Neimi, a cup winning starter, at 700k is a good signing. He wont have the dumpster fire that is the Stars team D in front of him this year. Watch is numbers improve.
Reeves and can skate, lay hits, fore check and cycle deep effectively.. Other than the odd goal here and there, what else do you want from a 4th line winger?
So that leaves us with 3C...the Pens 3C wasnt very good at all this past season. They were quite successful despite that. Plenty of time to find a replacement. - MattStrat
thank you for your logic and reason. all the other chicken littles need to calm down
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC Joined: 02.01.2012
Jul 5 @ 6:25 PM ET
How in the world are Reaves and Doan "peers?" Doan is an old power forward. Reaves is a younger energy/enforcer guy. They're not comparable. Here's the noteworthy chart for this comparison:
They dont need a top 4....everyone wants a top 4 becuase of Letang's health. I dont think Letang missed one game in the 2016 cup run. Its hard to bet that he'll be 100% healthy all year...but come playoff time he really could be. Who knows.
The Pens almost clinched Presidents Trophy dressing 15 different defencemen last season.. - MattStrat
This is good... Until Letang goes down, at which point it turns into dog poop like these past playoffs showed. We won it all this year, and I'm ecstatic we did, but we also leaned too heavily on Crosby, Malkin, and goaltending and I don't want to take those odds again. I'm hungry for a 3pete and we have a ton of cap space and assets to throw around, so overpaying on D and bringing in another highish cap hit, first line caliber guy as legit Letang insurance is a thing we can actually pull off and I'm disappointed Rutherford seems content with Hunwick.
If you want to argue that we won the Cup so we don't need to do anything to improve, I really can't argue with your point the same way I can't argue with the people who thought Toews was better than Sid due to amount of Cup wins because that argument isn't based on any meaningful hockey analysis, statistical or eye test. I think its pretty clear that we had serious issues these playoffs and got bailed out by a very small handful of special players. I'd rather rely on a team, not 4 guys to win the Cup.
I don't think we can drill gmjr in getting reeves. It's not a horrible move. But it also came from Crosby who said he wants a guy like that on the team. If Crosby asks for protection then you go get him protection. - sditulli
I actually agree with this point and DK had a good article about it. That's why I'm not upset about Reeves the player specifically, since him actually deterring things or not is irrelevant so long as Crosby thinks he's deterring and goes into overdrive because of it. Sid's been pretty vocal about how much he likes having an enforcer around. I just really don't like the specific deal.
This is good... Until Letang goes down, at which point it turns into dog poop like these past playoffs showed. We won it all this year, and I'm ecstatic we did, but we also leaned too heavily on Crosby, Malkin, and goaltending and I don't want to take those odds again. I'm hungry for a 3pete and we have a ton of cap space and assets to throw around, so overpaying on D and bringing in another highish cap hit, first line caliber guy as legit Letang insurance is a thing we can actually pull off and I'm disappointed Rutherford seems content with Hunwick.
If you want to argue that we won the Cup so we don't need to do anything to improve, I really can't argue with your point the same way I can't argue with the people who thought Toews was better than Sid due to amount of Cup wins because that argument isn't based on any meaningful hockey analysis, statistical or eye test. I think its pretty clear that we had serious issues these playoffs and got bailed out by a very small handful of special players. I'd rather rely on a team, not 4 guys to win the Cup. - Victoro311
Hunwick will probaby play LD. That means Ruhwedel could play unless a new RD is brought in, a left shooting D plays the off side, or a young D comes up to replace him.
This is about as huge of an issue as the end of the world, nuclear war and when will that comet finally hit us. It's a none issue, you're just making it out to be. JR and Sully are not worried, why would you worry for yourself? - Darklight11
Because its the offseason and I'm obsessed with hockey so this is the only thing I can worry about when there's no games being played.
Because its the offseason and I'm obsessed with hockey so this is the only thing I can worry about when there's no games being played. - Victoro311
Plus, this time of the year is the chance to improve the team with FA's that do not last long before they are taken by other teams. I agree the best FA C's are mostly gone, so a trade for a 3C is becoming more likely.
