Eh, not if you've watched the games.

Keith put up a bunch of points last year and looked fine on paper but pretty much sucked the whole season.
- fattybeef

Keith had the worst Giveaway/Takeaway ratio of his career last year. Also his worst CF% year since he was a rookie.

Honestly his numbers follow a similar trend the rest of the core Hawks... Their offensive game is about the same as it has been for the past few years, but the opposition is creating way more against them than they used to.

Butcher’s camp would listen to the Chicago Blackhawks if they came calling.

“We are mostly just watching the calendar for now, but Butcher will be looking for a team that presents a plan for him to be an NHL player over the next couple years,” Bartlett wrote. “If the Blackhawks call with some ideas, we will certainly listen. Not specific to Butcher (or even the Hawks), but teams who are close to the cap need young cost effective players to step into the lineup. I’d imagine this will be one scenario we discuss with teams in a couple weeks.”

Butcher’s camp would listen to the Chicago Blackhawks if they came calling.

“We are mostly just watching the calendar for now, but Butcher will be looking for a team that presents a plan for him to be an NHL player over the next couple years,” Bartlett wrote. “If the Blackhawks call with some ideas, we will certainly listen. Not specific to Butcher (or even the Hawks), but teams who are close to the cap need young cost effective players to step into the lineup. I’d imagine this will be one scenario we discuss with teams in a couple weeks.”
- walleyeb1

Makes a lot of sense.

Keith had the worst Giveaway/Takeaway ratio of his career last year. Also his worst CF% year since he was a rookie.

Honestly his numbers follow a similar trend the rest of the core Hawks... Their offensive game is about the same as it has been for the past few years, but the opposition is creating way more against them than they used to.
- BINGO!

It will be interesting to see how Keith does with a new partner, a hopefully a more healed knee and more support in terms of moving the puck up ice.

The guy was still the best D on the team, played against some tough assignments and put up his 3rd best season in terms of points and even strength points. How good was his even strength production? 4th for all Dmen but only Burns as ahead of the pack.

Burns 50 EVP
Karlsson 42 EVP
Hedman 39 EVP
Keith 38 EVP

Your are right (I had shared it here before in terms of the Hawks giveaway/takeaway) and as a team they have gone down hill in that dept. I think they will work on the zone exits and getting through the middle now that they have a bit more team speed back.

Makes a lot of sense.
- breadbag

"Over the next couple years" interesting, wonder if Colliton in Rockford and Samuelsson as the new defensive coach become selling points.

- walleyeb1

Hawks are a vegas darling. low odds make the book a ton as CHI fans bet them up.

Ehhhh . . . Rob Brown?
- John Jaeckel

Nah - but you made me look it up ... I was thinking of Warren Young:

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ats/pdisplay.php?pid=5836

The main reason I remember the guy is because iirc Detroit went nuts signing all kinds of undrafted free agents that same year, including a guy from UIC - I don't even think UIC even has a team any more, do they?

I played a couple of games there at their practice rink (in a rec league granted ...) - but you don't hear that too often from guys that live in Perth WA bet.

Hawks are a vegas darling. low odds make the book a ton as CHI fans bet them up.
- riozzo

I'll bet!

[quote=John Jaeckel]

Laz doesn't know hockey, he got put into that role after Adam Jahns got moved over to the Bears beat. I take very little that comes out of his work with any seriousness. Another writer here in Chicago that knows little about the sport but is 1st in line at the press box buffet at home games. If you were well fed you wouldn't rock the boat either. Chicago misses Timmy Sassone big time!
Those lines he proposed are garbage.

Hi guys...I don't post all that often, but when I saw mention of AHL Superstar Rob Brown, I thought I'd share a story. I was at a Wolves game in the mid to late 90s...right at the beginning of the dark years for the Hawks franchise. I was with 2 of my buddies and my girlfriend. We were sitting on the glass right by one of the neutral-zone faceoff circles. My buddies and I had no love for Brown because of his sad-a** play while with the Hawks, so we spent the entire game heckling him any chance we got. At one point, there was a faceoff right in front of us, and as Brown skated over we started banging on the glass and telling him where the defensive zone was located. He looked at all three of us, and then looked at my girlfriend, smiled, winked at her, and turned his back on us to get ready for the faceoff. I remember wanting to break the glass to get at him at the time, but it makes for a great story now.
- JPBurke27

Thanks for the story. I remember watching many Wolves games from the 1st or 2nd row because the tickets were so darn cheap back in the 90s at the good ol' Rosemont Horizon.

Laz's lineup may be interesting but not necessarily good.

Saad-Toews-Panik
Fortin-Anisimov-Kane
Sharp-Schmaltz-Hartman
Bouma-Dauphin-Wingels
Extra:Kero/Jurco
- EbonyRaptor

That lineup projection is on point with what I'm predicting.

The Hawks forward are definitely looking deeper offensively on paper than they did a season ago. Consider the forwards the Hawks used last year compared to who they are likely to use this year.

Last year - With previous year's point totals (2015-16 NHL scoring)
Schmaltz 0 - Toews 58 - Panik 8
Panarin 77 - AA 42 - Kane 106
Hartman 1 - Kruger 4 - Hossa 33
Desi 13 - Rasmussen 9 - Tootoo 9
Kero 3
Hino/Motte/Hayden/Jurco/Abbott - 0

That group had 363 points in from the previous season and a lot of rookies and unknowns. Only Kane/Panarin/Toews/AA/Hossa/Desjardins with double digit point totals from 2015-16 in that group.


Likely forward group for this season and their 2016-17 scoring
Saad 53 - Toews 58 - Panik 44
Sharp 18 - AA 45 - Kane 89
Hartman 31 - Kero 16 - Schmaltz 28
Bouma 7 - Duphin 3 - Wingels 12

Hayden 4 - Tootoo 3 - Jurco 1

To kick off this year, the Hawks likely have 10 forwards that were at least double digits in scoring the previous season. Kane/Toews/Saad/AA/Panik/Hartman/Schmaltz/Sharp/Kero/Wingels. Obviously we'll see what this group does and defense is a bit more of a question mark, but the group should have decent scoring in the top 9. As a group these forwards had 412 points the previous season.

(Edit: let me add, I'm not attempting to guess the lineup here)

We're screwed, and will be for a long time. There is no way to overcome the litany of horrible contracts to the 'core players'. By the time the cap gets high enough to offset the inflated contracts of Johnny, Kaner, and worse of all Seabrook, they will be too old for it to matter. We had a great run. The most storied in franchise history. But the contracts 'for a job well done" never allow an organization to continue at a level of expectation. Always amazing how every organization makes the same mistakes. But will always appreciate the last 7-8 years of dynasty hockey!

We're screwed, and will be for a long time. There is no way to overcome the litany of horrible contracts to the 'core players'. By the time the cap gets high enough to offset the inflated contracts of Johnny, Kaner, and worse of all Seabrook, they will be too old for it to matter. We had a great run. The most storied in franchise history. But the contracts 'for a job well done" never allow an organization to continue at a level of expectation. Always amazing how every organization makes the same mistakes. But will always appreciate the last 7-8 years of dynasty hockey!
- gk911

Hawks were screwed between about 1998 and 2005. Nothing compares to that period of time. They might not win another cup with this core but they'll be still relevant.

[quote=wonthecup10]


Yuuuuuuup.

2015 Jonathan Toews was awfully good. Like, EPICLY, good in the 2015 WCF.

Not sure I buy the "peaked early" theory.

Clearly, he seems to thrive with certain players around him, and it's interesting that you cite Kane and Byfuglien. I also recall Q loading up Toews with power wings in the 2009 WCF, and his chemistry with Hossa and Saad was pretty great for 2 1/2 seasons to the tune of 2 Cups when they were maybe the best line in hockey.

Conversely, doesn't seem to matter AS much who Kane plays with or what style but i will say he also does a lot better with at least one road grader on his line (Handzus, Byfuglien, Brouwer, Bickell, Anisimov).

With Saad back, and Panik seeming to thrive with Toews and vice versa, the pieces seem to be there for Toews to have a bounceback year. We'll see.
- John Jaeckel

I kinda think Toews has been a little worn down and more than a little injured these last 2-3 years. And, at around the mid-way point last year he seemed to be having more good games than bad and looked like he was on the mend. The WHOLE TEAM stunk in the opening series, and even then he got a goal and assist when the Hawks barely bulged the twine at all.

Looking at his numbers from 2010 to 2013 he was right around a point per game. As he wore down from the long playoff runs, his points per game dropped to 0.9 in 13-14 and 0.8 in 2014-15 (but great playoffs of 21 pts in 23 games!).

Two years ago, bottomed out at 0.7 points per game, and last year back up to 0.8.

Rested, Saad back, little healthier....I see he could be back to the 0.9 points per game level, which is a 70 point season. If so, that is good for the Hawks.

Hoping two years ago, was a blip....and we have 3-4 more good productive years out of our Captain. And signs point to this being a real possibility!!!

We're screwed, and will be for a long time. There is no way to overcome the litany of horrible contracts to the 'core players'. By the time the cap gets high enough to offset the inflated contracts of Johnny, Kaner, and worse of all Seabrook, they will be too old for it to matter. We had a great run. The most storied in franchise history. But the contracts 'for a job well done" never allow an organization to continue at a level of expectation. Always amazing how every organization makes the same mistakes. But will always appreciate the last 7-8 years of dynasty hockey!
- gk911

I hold out hope maybe, just maybe Seabrook can still be dealt in the next two years. If teams like Edmonton or Toronto really start to threaten for long playoff runs (especially Toronto)....they have a glut of forwards that will be hard to keep them all going forward. (Matthews and Marner going nowhere, but MAY be forced to move a Kapanen, Nylander, Brown, or someone) Maybe they want the leadership and winning experience of a Seabrook. Now, that said....I know it means Seabrook has to play pretty effective this year and maybe next to create some interest....But, if Phanouf got moved, any contract can be moved if the right circumstance evolves.

Hey.....nice to think so anyway, isn't it???

The Hawks forward are definitely looking deeper offensively on paper than they did a season ago. Consider the forwards the Hawks used last year compared to who they are likely to use this year.

Last year - With previous year's point totals (2015-16 NHL scoring)
Schmaltz 0 - Toews 58 - Panik 8
Panarin 77 - AA 42 - Kane 106
Hartman 1 - Kruger 4 - Hossa 33
Desi 13 - Rasmussen 9 - Tootoo 9
Kero 3
Hino/Motte/Hayden/Jurco/Abbott - 0

That group had 363 points in from the previous season and a lot of rookies and unknowns. Only Kane/Panarin/Toews/AA/Hossa/Desjardins with double digit point totals from 2015-16 in that group.


Likely forward group for this season and their 2016-17 scoring
Saad 53 - Toews 58 - Panik 44
Sharp 18 - AA 45 - Kane 89
Hartman 31 - Kero 16 - Schmaltz 28
Bouma 7 - Duphin 3 - Wingels 12

Hayden 4 - Tootoo 3 - Jurco 1

To kick off this year, the Hawks likely have 10 forwards that were at least double digits in scoring the previous season. Kane/Toews/Saad/AA/Panik/Hartman/Schmaltz/Sharp/Kero/Wingels. Obviously we'll see what this group does and defense is a bit more of a question mark, but the group should have decent scoring in the top 9. As a group these forwards had 412 points the previous season.

(Edit: let me add, I'm not attempting to guess the lineup here)
- breadbag

I think you are, at least...close with this group, or some variation of it. And even though a few questions...it is NOT terrible, a hole or two to improve, but not terrible.

The defence concerns me more. I see the question marks of Kempny, Forsling, Murphy and any of the 5-6 guys really. Outside of Keith and Seabrook there are a LOT of unknowns. Not to mention at what level Keith and Seabrook will be.

To me, the back end is the REAL unknown. Could be OK....might be a sh-- show. The piece or pieces Stan can get with the Hossa $$$$ is really going to be key going forward!

We're screwed, and will be for a long time. There is no way to overcome the litany of horrible contracts to the 'core players'. By the time the cap gets high enough to offset the inflated contracts of Johnny, Kaner, and worse of all Seabrook, they will be too old for it to matter. We had a great run. The most storied in franchise history. But the contracts 'for a job well done" never allow an organization to continue at a level of expectation. Always amazing how every organization makes the same mistakes. But will always appreciate the last 7-8 years of dynasty hockey!
- gk911

Yup time to throw up the white flag! Go join Rash over in the preds blog they will love you over there...

Supposedly Savvy is coming down to Oz to run some fantasy camps ... he's supposed to be here in mid December ... and I frigging won't be cleared to skate until frigging January ... stinking soft tissue injuries - it isn't fair!!!!

I am like the only guy in town I think that plays and actually -is- from Chicago (ok the burbs -to be technical) ... and has seen Savvy play in the old Barn.

This is going to kill me.

We're screwed, and will be for a long time. There is no way to overcome the litany of horrible contracts to the 'core players'. By the time the cap gets high enough to offset the inflated contracts of Johnny, Kaner, and worse of all Seabrook, they will be too old for it to matter. We had a great run. The most storied in franchise history. But the contracts 'for a job well done" never allow an organization to continue at a level of expectation. Always amazing how every organization makes the same mistakes. But will always appreciate the last 7-8 years of dynasty hockey!
- gk911

The pissing an moaning about Seabrook's contract has gotten so overblown this past season. He barely got a 1m raise from his last one. What is 1m going to get us? By the time the term is a problem and hes too old, Our window will likely be shut and it won't matter. Sure, he could have take 5 years instead of 8... but we'd still be smashed up against the cap right now, and it would be any better for 4 more years. Seabrook is NOT the problem.

The pissing an moaning about Seabrook's contract has gotten so overblown this past season. He barely got a 1m raise from his last one. What is 1m going to get us? By the time the term is a problem and hes too old, Our window will likely be shut and it won't matter. Sure, he could have take 5 years instead of 8... but we'd still be smashed up against the cap right now, and it would be any better for 4 more years. Seabrook is NOT the problem.
- JRoenick97

Well stated

The pissing an moaning about Seabrook's contract has gotten so overblown this past season. He barely got a 1m raise from his last one. What is 1m going to get us? By the time the term is a problem and hes too old, Our window will likely be shut and it won't matter. Sure, he could have take 5 years instead of 8... but we'd still be smashed up against the cap right now, and it would be any better for 4 more years. Seabrook is NOT the problem.
- JRoenick97

When a contract makes a player untradeable before a 8 year contract even starts then you really need to question what the GM is thinking. Bickell was not tradable until year 2 of his contract. a Extra 1 mil meant we could have kept SAAD and not traded for AA.

When a contract makes a player untradeable before a 8 year contract even starts then you really need to question what the GM is thinking. Bickell was not tradable until year 2 of his contract. a Extra 1 mil meant we could have kept SAAD and not traded for AA.
- kmw4631

Seabrook didn't sign until a year after Saad was gone.