I'll call foul on that as Hagg has been solid in most of his games.
- dragonoffrost

Agree. Patrick has dealt with injuries but of the young players gost provorov hagg have looked good on d Laughton leier and tk has shown glimpses. It's absolutely our guys we expected to count on letting us down like weal filpulla Weise simmer lehtera raffl gudas

Outside of Provorov and Sanheim, The young kids really are not doing much for this team currently. Is there a chance Hextall and fans has over rated some of these kids?
- Buzzo

Do we still consider Ghost a "young kid?" Because people have been telling me since opening night that he's not a veteran.

And I think that is the point some are trying to make. A big body is fine, but not Weise. Raffl is out there hustling, dropping the gloves and he's even scored some goals recently. There is no way that Weise should be getting pp time ahead of him. If it was up to me, I'd shake it up even more on the 2nd unit and go with Provy and Sanheim on the points and Patrick, Raffl and Konecny down low.
- BiggE

I don't see Weise playing on the PP a major issue with this team or a big reason why the team is struggling.

Apparently, if something is not a major reason for the team's struggles, there's no need to try to fix it. Just solely focus on solving the major problems while the little ones pile on top of them. Coaching 101.

Only you would defend Weise on the PP. The big body that doesn't play big. Not as if they've been lighting it up? With that logic let's throw John Scott in there. FFS there's no defending your hill, Marines have taken over, planted the flag, and are already drilling for oil.
- SimmerDown17

You damage your credibility with the tone of your post here. There aren't many choices available to the coach. It's not defending a hill, it's looking at things objectively rather than just picking out a scapegoat.

Outside of Provorov and Sanheim, The young kids really are not doing much for this team currently. Is there a chance Hextall and fans has over rated some of these kids?
- Buzzo

I know Hagg has taken heat from people but I think he has done a good job. I'm old so I call any player under 25 a young player so players like Ghost, etc still qualify as young to me. all that said players develop at their own pace as much as we want everyone to be Lindros and immediately make an impact. I mean, even Couturier....while he made an immediate impact defensively, look how long it has taken to find the offensive game that was expected. and while Laughton will most likely never be a bigger point producer in the NHL look how long it has taken for him to get to the point where his defensive game makes him an asset instead of a liability that ended up having him demoted.

I liked Konecny with Giroux and Coots and Patrick with Voracek. I would roll with that for a bit. I like Leier/Laughton/Weal. I'd roll with that. what I don't like at this point is Filppula and Weise.

Honestly coming into this season i expected a bubble playoff team and while that is what they are, I am still a bit disappointed overall. I guess with the defense so young maybe that isn't 100% fair. I just don't think Hextall is going to make that move to start bringing in the Hartnell/Timonen/Briere like players until he feels his roster is close to where he wants it to be/until the defense is further along development wise.

I don't see Weise playing on the PP a major issue with this team or a big reason why the team is struggling.
- MJL

Didn't say it was a major issue, but it's still a mistake any way you want to look at it.

Never said I was fine with the penalty, I never even mentioned the penalty, but your telling me outside of this game he’s getting the minutes to develop?
If G, Jake or I’ll even say Weise takes those same penalties, you think they lose ice time in game?
- Buzzo

rookie:vet
apples:oranges

And he started getting more ice time and then went on a dumb penalty spree and paid for it. Let's see how good a learner he is tonight.

Apparently, if something is not a major reason for the team's struggles, there's no need to try to fix it. Just solely focus on solving the major problems while the little ones pile on top of them. Coaching 101.
- jmatchett383

The issue is he only has 21 bullets to put out there in 18 spaces. With his current roster it's really arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Hextall thought some pieces would work that aren't. Weise, Lehtera, Fillpula are all on Hextall as he over estimated the production they'd bring. Now he has to decide is it better to send one to Lehigh and get a kid up. The issue there is also that Lehigh is over or at the veteran cap for the AHL I believe. It's a roster space thing that Hextall will need to correct in the offseason.

Do we still consider Ghost a "young kid?" Because people have been telling me since opening night that he's not a veteran.
- jmatchett383

He's a young sloppy almost veteran.

I’ll man up, I remember one game where Amac took stupid penalties in one game and a dumb one at the end, and who goes right back out there after they scored? Amac to defend the tie game which lead to the game winner.
How about Gudas taking dumb penalties in game and never missing a shift?
- Buzzo

Veteran players have always been treated differently than rookies and young players have been by pretty much every coach in NHL history. Right or wrong.

Which specific game are you referring to?

I know Hagg has taken heat from people but I think he has done a good job. I'm old so I call any player under 25 a young player so players like Ghost, etc still qualify as young to me. all that said players develop at their own pace as much as we want everyone to be Lindros and immediately make an impact. I mean, even Couturier....while he made an immediate impact defensively, look how long it has taken to find the offensive game that was expected. and while Laughton will most likely never be a bigger point producer in the NHL look how long it has taken for him to get to the point where his defensive game makes him an asset instead of a liability that ended up having him demoted.

I liked Konecny with Giroux and Coots and Patrick with Voracek. I would roll with that for a bit. I like Leier/Laughton/Weal. I'd roll with that. what I don't like at this point is Filppula and Weise.

Honestly coming into this season i expected a bubble playoff team and while that is what they are, I am still a bit disappointed overall. I guess with the defense so young maybe that isn't 100% fair. I just don't think Hextall is going to make that move to start bringing in the Hartnell/Timonen/Briere like players until he feels his roster is close to where he wants it to be/until the defense is further along development wise.
- nastyflyergirl

What heat has Hagg taken? I think most people have been pleasantly surprised with him overall. Or did you mean in past years?

Also, while it's possible, I don't see him regressing much next year (certainly possible, though). His game relies on positioning and hockey smarts. There's not much to "figure out" about him like there was with Ghost. He's not a flashy guy, he's a defensive player who moves the puck decently. I don't think he'll regress...but that's just me.

Didn't say it was a major issue, but it's still a mistake any way you want to look at it.
- BiggE

Death by a thousand cuts

The issue is he only has 21 bullets to put out there in 18 spaces. With his current roster it's really arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Hextall thought some pieces would work that aren't. Weise, Lehtera, Fillpula are all on Hextall as he over estimated the production they'd bring. Now he has to decide is it better to send one to Lehigh and get a kid up. The issue there is also that Lehigh is over or at the veteran cap for the AHL I believe. It's a roster space thing that Hextall will need to correct in the offseason.
- dragonoffrost

Well, let's just use Weise on PP2 as an example. Is that the main reason that the team has struggled? Certainly not. Is it something that could be better served by giving a different player his spot? I think so, so why not change it? Just because something is not a major issue doesn't mean it can't be addressed, because little things can pile up.

Edit:

Death by a thousand cuts
- Gnostic

This.

Outside of Provorov and Sanheim, The young kids really are not doing much for this team currently. Is there a chance Hextall and fans has over rated some of these kids?
- Buzzo

This contradicts your complaint about the young players getting ice time to develop.

Didn't say it was a major issue, but it's still a mistake any way you want to look at it.
- BiggE

You obviously don't understand how NHL coaches think.

What heat has Hagg taken? I think most people have been pleasantly surprised with him overall. Or did you mean in past years?

Also, while it's possible, I don't see him regressing much next year (certainly possible, though). His game relies on positioning and hockey smarts. There's not much to "figure out" about him like there was with Ghost. He's not a flashy guy, he's a defensive player who moves the puck decently. I don't think he'll regress...but that's just me.
- jmatchett383

eh a few people on here have ripped him due to his fancy stats.

Didn't say it was a major issue, but it's still a mistake any way you want to look at it.
- BiggE

When looking at the alternatives available, it really isn't. Fans have just decided that Weise is one of the main scapegoats. I'd prefer Raffl but reality is it wouldn't make a big difference because the 2nd unit PP is not adept at getting the puck set up and getting the puck to the net for a net front presence forward to be effective. They lack a player on the half wall to QB the PP along with Provorov at the point.

Well, let's just use Weise on PP2 as an example. Is that the main reason that the teams has struggled? Certainly not. Is it something that could be better served by giving a different player his spot? I think so, so why not change it? Just because something is not a major issue doesn't mean it can't be addressed.
- jmatchett383

G, Coots Simmer Jake on PP1...

Patrick, Weal, Fillpula, Weise on PP2

is the current layout.

IF he wants a body net front who do you deploy there Raffl? Not really a big body but maybe you put Fillpula net front and Raffl in his spot.

Funny thing is we are talking PP issue which really is Knobloch's duty to decide usage not Hakstol. Hakstol can tell Knobloch to do something different but really it's on both of those guys.

eh a few people on here have ripped him due to his fancy stats.
- nastyflyergirl

That may be . Personally, though, I think he's better very good. He won't be a guy who puts up big numbers offensively, but for a rookie who's been playing top-4 and, for a few weeks, top-2 minutes on a below-average team, he's done just fine by me.

That may be . Personally, though, I think he's better very good. He won't be a guy who puts up big numbers offensively, but for a rookie who's been playing top-4 and, for a few weeks, top-2 minutes on a below-average team, he's done just fine by me.
- jmatchett383

agree

Herein lies my issue. A vet should know better. Also, since he's "proven what he is", and that is a bottom-3/bottom-pair defenseman, why keep putting them out there if they're costing you goals? Yeah, maybe the kid will mess up, maybe he won't. But if you already know that the vet is gonna cost you and will never get better, why keep going back to him?

It's like comparing an unknown to a known failure. At least there's a chance with the unknown.
- jmatchett383

Playing a young player in the same situations that you play the vets in is not conducive to developing. The Flyers already have to do that too much with a player like Hagg. Putting a young player out there to repeatedly get his head caved in game after game is not smart player development.

G, Coots Simmer Jake on PP1...

Patrick, Weal, Fillpula, Weise on PP2

is the current layout.

IF he wants a body net front who do you deploy there Raffl? Not really a big body but maybe you put Fillpula net front and Raffl in his spot.

Funny thing is we are talking PP issue which really is Knobloch's duty to decide usage not Hakstol. Hakstol can tell Knobloch to do something different but really it's on both of those guys.
- dragonoffrost

I would prefer Raffl there, personally. Or, as you said, I'd put Filppula in his spot and put Sanheim out there as a second defenseman. And I never said it falls directly on Hakstol (I don't think), simply that it's an issue that should be addressed by the coaches regardless of its overall impact.

Playing a young player in the same situations that you play the vets in is not conducive to developing. The Flyers already have to do that too much with a player like Hagg. Putting a young player out there to repeatedly get his head caved in game after game is not smart player development.
- MJL

Great, have a Happy New Year.

We have established many times that coaches treat younger players differently than veterans and the primary tool for “teaching” a young player is through ice time.

The question is...is that Stone Age tool still particularly effective? Do young nhl players need to have their faces rubbed into the carpet after soiling the rug?