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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap:Flyers Fail Key Test, Drop 4-3 Decision to Devils
Author Message
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 2 @ 1:53 PM ET
Stating that someone pretends to have facts and it is not just an opinion, is an opinion and ironically not a fact. LOL To be clear I never claim to be offering anything as more than an opinion.

MacDonald has played better overall than Gudas has this season and while overall I think based on his time as a Flyer I would rate Gudas as better overall player than MacDonald that has not been the case this season. To be clear, this is my opinion.

- MJL



that I can deal with, maybe you are stating an opinion but it comes off more as it is the fact
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 2 @ 1:54 PM ET
It's not possible to have a serious conversation about this team with a person who cannot bring themselves to admit that the sudden introduction of Lehtera to the PK rotation was entirely unnecessary, and has resulted in significantly worse outcomes on the ice.
- Feanor



That's where we disagree. I think when a PK has been struggling all season long in the bottom of the league, changing personnel and trying different players is necessary. I also have never stated or denied that it has not improved. I just don't choose to single out Lehtera as the only issue and focus on him for the poor PK. I look at each PP GA and look for the exact breakdown, rather than just looking at team stats and choose a culprit for it. I realize that hockey is a team game.

As examples, I criticized Lehtera for his weak coverage on the Oshie goal in the Washington game. Last night I criticized Fillpula for poor stick postion and allowing a clear and open cross ice passing lane on the Palmieri goal. The Stafford goal was poor goaltending. Notice that is 3 different issues and 3 different breakdowns. Or we can just blame Lehtera for everything.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 2 @ 1:56 PM ET
That's where we disagree. I think when a PK has been struggling all season long in the bottom of the league, changing personnel and trying different players is necessary. I also have never stated or denied that it has not improved. I just don't choose to single out Lehtera as the only issue and focus on him for the poor PK. I look at each PP GA and look for the exact breakdown, rather than just looking at team stats and choose a culprit for it. I realize that hockey is a team game.
- MJL


agree it has been struggling all season but it felt like in the beginning of the year it was more puck luck and less of a structure/personnel issue

one thing for sure in my opinion is that Flip should be nowhere near the penalty kill, not now, he is a shell of his former self, even Lethera has more value.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 2 @ 1:57 PM ET
I'm telling you: Scissor activity e-books

Just let that sink in.

- jmatchett383

you do know what a printer is, right?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 2 @ 1:57 PM ET
I just took a seriously huge dump in my work bathroom. I felt like Jori Lehtera killing a penalty.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 2 @ 1:58 PM ET
agree it has been struggling all season but it felt like in the beginning of the year it was more puck luck and less of a structure/personnel issue

one thing for sure in my opinion is that Flip should be nowhere near the penalty kill, not now, he is a shell of his former self, even Lethera has more value.

- wcorvette


I don't agree with you there. Filppula is a much better player than Lehtera is.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 2 @ 1:58 PM ET
that I can deal with, maybe you are stating an opinion but it comes off more as it is the fact
- wcorvette



That's not my issue.
Baxter27
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.03.2007

Feb 2 @ 1:59 PM ET
That has absolutely nothing to do with being trusted by a coach once a player's development reaches the NHL
- YuenglingJagr


I'll admit based on on Manning's performance since Sanheim was sent down, the coach and GM made the wrong decision, or decisions which lead to it. Unfortunately Hextall may hesitate to call him back up, not wanting to jerk around his development.

That being said, you're ignoring how Hakstol has handled young players when performance justifies it.

Konecny started his career as a second line LW but had his role diminished due to poor puck management. His puck management is still a work in progress but he holds an opportunity as the top line RW. He's thriving right now but if he struggles it's not out of the ordinary he should be removed from it.

Ghost was called up and almost immediately used as the top pp quarterback and trusted in critical game situations. Very rarely has he been held back from filling the role as the top offensive Dman on the team.

Patrick has probably gotten the most leway from him not losing his pp or top 9 role even when he failed to impact games as much as he should be in that role.

Its no secret NHL coaches covet consistency from young players. Getting that is a process. Just because some bumps along the road have resulted in a few scratches for each player doesn't mean Hakstol deserves no credit for their development. I know you hate giving him any credit for an elite Provorov so I'll refrain from using him as an example.

jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 2 @ 1:59 PM ET
you do know what a printer is, right?
- YuenglingJagr


Yes, but 95% of people who buy e-Books are going to have them downloaded to their mobile device/e-reader.
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Feb 2 @ 2:00 PM ET
Needing to play Mcd over Gudas? When Gudas is playing well I think he is a better option for the 2nd pair. It is pretty obvious that the Gudas/Manning pair needs to be changed
- wcorvette


Hagg and MacDonald are a poor combination and we saw that again last night when they were dominated by the Devils. They're already in the negative in 5 on 5 GF/GA, and that's only going to get worse with the way they hemorrhage shot attempts.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 2 @ 2:00 PM ET
I'll admit based on on Manning's performance since Sanheim was sent down, the coach and GM made the wrong decision, or decisions which lead to it. Unfortunately Hextall may hesitate to call him back up, not wanting to jerk around his development.

That being said, you're ignoring how Hakstol has handled young players when performance justifies it.

Konecny started his career as a second line LW but had his role diminished due to poor puck management. His puck management is still a work in progress but he holds an opportunity as the top line RW. He's thriving right now but if he struggles it's not out of the ordinary he should be removed from it.

Ghost was called up and almost immediately used as the top pp quarterback and trusted in critical game situations. Very rarely has he been held back from filling the role as the top offensive Dman on the team.

Patrick has probably gotten the most leway from him not losing his pp or top 9 role even when he failed to impact games as much as he should be in that role.

Its no secret NHL coaches covet consistency from young players. Getting that is a process. Just because some bumps along the road have resulted in a few scratches for each player doesn't mean Hakstol deserves no credit for their development. I know you hate giving him any credit for an elite Provorov so I'll refrain from using him as an example.

- Baxter27


Well said but that's not how the Leafs are doing it!
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:02 PM ET
Yes, but 95% of people who buy e-Books are going to have them downloaded to their mobile device/e-reader.
- jmatchett383


Oh the horrors!
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 2 @ 2:03 PM ET
Hagg and MacDonald are a poor combination and we saw that again last night when they were dominated by the Devils. They're already in the negative in 5 on 5 GF/GA, and that's only going to get worse with the way they hemorrhage shot attempts.
- Feanor


Where does MacDonald rank in GA/60 among Flyers defenseman?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 2 @ 2:03 PM ET
Oh the horrors!
- dragonoffrost


To the bets of my knowledge, there is no way to transfer files from a Nook (that's an electronic book reader, YG) to a printer-friendly device.
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:04 PM ET
To the bets of my knowledge, there is no way to transfer files from a Nook (that's an electronic book reader, YG) to a printer-friendly device.
- jmatchett383


So go ahead and cut the Nook and you see why I said Oh the Horrors.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:05 PM ET
This doesn't make any sense in my opinion. For example Babcock has demoted Marner to the 4th line this season. It's not a linear situation. Once a young player makes it to the NHL that doesn't mean that he doesn't have to keep earning ice time and a coached trust.
- MJL

And when Babcock moved him back up the lineup and played the young defenseman over the veteran plug they see great results. Babcock was used as an example (like you just did) and yet once he changes that (mostly out of necessity) they win four straight and the last two games 9-0. It is pretty simple. I enjoy seeing the Leafs do well when they're forced to use younger, skilled players after having "Babcock uses veterans" thrown at me when I suggested the Flyers do it.

A coach's trust is not an infallible belief. I am not arguing that a young player doesn't need to earn it. I am arguing that coaches play less skilled players in certain situations because of trust. Weird things happen when good players play.

It is your "opinion" that the Flyers couldn't possibly be wrong about it or play it too safe. That is fine. I disagree

Baxter27
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.03.2007

Feb 2 @ 2:06 PM ET
It's not possible to have a serious conversation about this team with a person who cannot bring themselves to admit that the sudden introduction of Lehtera to the PK rotation was entirely unnecessary, and has resulted in significantly worse outcomes on the ice.
- Feanor


Bill gave the coaches reasoning for trying him on the PP. It doesn't sound crazy and I've seen the attributes on display. He's a big body, Does well at getting possession and clearing the puck.

I still wouldn't have him on the PK over Laughton and other options available. The results definitely call for drastic changes.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:07 PM ET
I just took a seriously huge dump in my work bathroom. I felt like Jori Lehtera killing a penalty.
- jmatchett383

Shake any hands afterwards?
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:07 PM ET
Yes, but 95% of people who buy e-Books are going to have them downloaded to their mobile device/e-reader.
- jmatchett383

you can print from an Apple™ iPad™ 
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:07 PM ET
I'll admit based on on Manning's performance since Sanheim was sent down, the coach and GM made the wrong decision, or decisions which lead to it. Unfortunately Hextall may hesitate to call him back up, not wanting to jerk around his development.

That being said, you're ignoring how Hakstol has handled young players when performance justifies it.

Konecny started his career as a second line LW but had his role diminished due to poor puck management. His puck management is still a work in progress but he holds an opportunity as the top line RW. He's thriving right now but if he struggles it's not out of the ordinary he should be removed from it.

Ghost was called up and almost immediately used as the top pp quarterback and trusted in critical game situations. Very rarely has he been held back from filling the role as the top offensive Dman on the team.

Patrick has probably gotten the most leway from him not losing his pp or top 9 role even when he failed to impact games as much as he should be in that role.

Its no secret NHL coaches covet consistency from young players. Getting that is a process. Just because some bumps along the road have resulted in a few scratches for each player doesn't mean Hakstol deserves no credit for their development. I know you hate giving him any credit for an elite Provorov so I'll refrain from using him as an example.

- Baxter27


Ghost got given his role due to being called up to replace one EXACT player. He had to fill that role which he did and did well. When they tried to expand his role he had issues and was sent to the Cote suite as penance.

Patrick has been handled as he has most likely because the team medical staff warned the management that he was going to have the recovery struggle like Ghost and G did last year so he languished on line 3 until he started to skate better. Then he was promoted recently to line 2 as his play improved. I see nothing wrong with his treatment.
hammarby31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: it's been 84 years, AZ
Joined: 01.02.2007

Feb 2 @ 2:08 PM ET
People may survive I fear for their TV's

And for edp's well being

- dragonoffrost


some tv's may get broken either way.
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Feb 2 @ 2:08 PM ET
Shake any hands afterwards?
- YuenglingJagr


The real question is did he have a conversation while doing his business.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 2 @ 2:09 PM ET
And when Babcock moved him back up the lineup and played the young defenseman over the veteran plug they see great results. Babcock was used as an example (like you just did) and yet once he changes that (mostly out of necessity) they win four straight and the last two games 9-0. It is pretty simple. I enjoy seeing the Leafs do well when they're forced to use younger, skilled players after having "Babcock uses veterans" thrown at me when I suggested the Flyers do it.

A coach's trust is not an infallible belief. I am not arguing that a young player doesn't need to earn it. I am arguing that coaches play less skilled players in certain situations because of trust. Weird things happen when good players play.

It is your "opinion" that the Flyers couldn't possibly be wrong about it or play it too safe. That is fine. I disagree

- YuenglingJagr


When Hakstol moved Konecny up the first line, the team saw great results. From the point of the end of the 10 game losing streak until recently the Flyers had one of the best records in the NHL over that period until the recent losing streak.

Hakstol recently move Patrick up in the lineup.

Hakstol does the same things when a players play warrants it. You just choose to not consider that I guess. We can't use Provorov because he doesn't count according to you.

It is your "opinion" that the Flyers couldn't possibly be right about it or develop the players the right way. That is fine. I disagree.
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Feb 2 @ 2:09 PM ET
Where does MacDonald rank in GA/60 among Flyers defenseman?
- MJL


Top 8 ?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 2 @ 2:10 PM ET
Where does MacDonald rank in GA/60 among Flyers defenseman?
- MJL


Lower than Provorov's.

Therefore, without any context whatsoever, your question yields an answer that indicates that MacDonald is a better defender than Provorov.
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