Jeremy Laura: Yzerman’s brilliant trim job, a possible Wings return? Lindstrom looks back

I believe you may be overstating the tax effect in your analysis. Are the agent fees and escrow amounts that reduce taxable income? The tax liability would be after those amounts are deducted.

I believe you may be overstating the tax effect in your analysis. Are the agent fees and escrow amounts that reduce taxable income? The tax liability would be after those amounts are deducted.
- ABC123

Agent fees are pre escrow, but the taxes are not effected by Escrow. Essentially, when you earn even 800K per year as a citizen, that’s a fairly high tax bracket. So the minimum 975K salary offset by 15 percent still qualifies for up to 50% taxable even after Escrow is taken out. This was all pointed out in an interview with, of all people, Sean Avery in the Player’s Tribune. He urged players to live on bonuses and per diem as much as possible, as that is a non taxed resource. Unfortunately, rookies are made to pay for team dinners as “hazing” and taken into stores where the total for an outfit is over a grand. It’s a dark side of things for sure

I believe you may be overstating the tax effect in your analysis. Are the agent fees and escrow amounts that reduce taxable income? The tax liability would be after those amounts are deducted.
- ABC123

Regardless, the point remains that salary, being taxed differently, shows a massive differentiator in escrow payments in regards to signing bonus and withholding. Keep the whole picture in mind of who pays the highest tab

I wouldn’t be shocked to see the wings leave dekyser exposed to see if Seattle takes his contract off their books.

As far as the escrow is concerned I don’t really understand how all that number crunching works nor do I care enough to learn. What I do know is that this next year was almost a lockout year anyway. So while I don’t know if it’s what you explained about contracts like Matthews that you used as example but I do know a lot of players contracts signed in the last 3/4 years were built with some protection into it should a lockout happen.

So given that the payout for players next year is less they won’t be losing as much as normal. Even though this highly benefits teams with these types of contracts, if the salary cap drops I would like to see players AAV’s drop a percentage of the difference between cap hit and actual pay just for this year. The league will recover some of their losses at the end of next year anyways due to the huge cheque’s they will be getting from Seattle and their new TV deal. I recall everyone saying those were going to cause the cap to skyrocket so if we can find a bandaid for next year (that was almost lost to lockout) the league will be fine. Rather that than complain buyouts, also assuming we get a full 2020/2021 season.

I wouldn’t be shocked to see the wings leave dekyser exposed to see if Seattle takes his contract off their books.

As far as the escrow is concerned I don’t really understand how all that number crunching works nor do I care enough to learn. What I do know is that this next year was almost a lockout year anyway. So while I don’t know if it’s what you explained about contracts like Matthews that you used as example but I do know a lot of players contracts signed in the last 3/4 years were built with some protection into it should a lockout happen.

So given that the payout for players next year is less they won’t be losing as much as normal. Even though this highly benefits teams with these types of contracts, if the salary cap drops I would like to see players AAV’s drop a percentage of the difference between cap hit and actual pay just for this year. The league will recover some of their losses at the end of next year anyways due to the huge cheque’s they will be getting from Seattle and their new TV deal. I recall everyone saying those were going to cause the cap to skyrocket so if we can find a bandaid for next year (that was almost lost to lockout) the league will be fine. Rather that than complain buyouts, also assuming we get a full 2020/2021 season.
- RedC21

Here’s the next rub. The Seattle expansion fee is considered non hockey related revenue. The owners all get an equal share, but don’t report it. Players don’t get paid. That’s still in the current agreement.

As for the TV deal, it could certainly help. But, the Rogers deal went south because the Canadian dollar dipped (all league revenue calculated in American dollars). So Canadian teams earnings take a hit as players are paid in American $ as well as league reporting. It’s a mess. Since the payout from Seattle isn’t HRR, it won’t be reported and the hard line 50/50 applies only to any funds under that flag. It’s a nasty bit to get ahold of

I wouldn’t be shocked to see the wings leave dekyser exposed to see if Seattle takes his contract off their books.

As far as the escrow is concerned I don’t really understand how all that number crunching works nor do I care enough to learn. What I do know is that this next year was almost a lockout year anyway. So while I don’t know if it’s what you explained about contracts like Matthews that you used as example but I do know a lot of players contracts signed in the last 3/4 years were built with some protection into it should a lockout happen.

So given that the payout for players next year is less they won’t be losing as much as normal. Even though this highly benefits teams with these types of contracts, if the salary cap drops I would like to see players AAV’s drop a percentage of the difference between cap hit and actual pay just for this year. The league will recover some of their losses at the end of next year anyways due to the huge cheque’s they will be getting from Seattle and their new TV deal. I recall everyone saying those were going to cause the cap to skyrocket so if we can find a bandaid for next year (that was almost lost to lockout) the league will be fine. Rather that than complain buyouts, also assuming we get a full 2020/2021 season.
- RedC21

To simplify, HRR is calculated at the end of the year. The amount of money that was brought in under that banner versus the money that was paid out in expenses. If player salaries and bonuses were higher than the total revenue amount, it is paid back to the owners from the escrow that is taken out. The league bases escrow on projections. This year is was around 14% (I believe) and when things are all said and done the players can sometimes get a refund (5 to 7%). Instead, with the shortened season, players have figured out they may need to pay an additional 20% over what was taken out already.

What should mortify the players is that owners can claim signing bonuses as an expense against HRR, but players don’t pay escrow on them. It’s an insane double dip. If they adjust the policy that bonuses cannot be claimed by teams as an expense, the whole thing would balance out to some degree.

I believe you may be overstating the tax effect in your analysis. Are the agent fees and escrow amounts that reduce taxable income? The tax liability would be after those amounts are deducted.
- ABC123

2 quick notes. Agent fees come out as pre escrow but the player still pays in relation to their total salary.

As for taxes, apart from their “home” tax, each player pays taxes on all away games based on the cities they play in. So, for half of the season they are subject to wherever they play. Cities like Nashville have a one time entertainment tax that you pay even if you only play their once. Correction. Nashville eliminated the 2500 per game tax for nhl and nba. It’s an accounting nightmare

You have a typo in your title. Same thing the NHL did at an awards show...

You have a typo in your title. Same thing the NHL did at an awards show...
- Kooleus

Can you believe it’s an auto correct. I’m fighting with it right now. Curse you Gustav...

You have a typo in your title. Same thing the NHL did at an awards show...
- Kooleus

Me vous remercie

"If the season is truly over, players could be facing an escrow level of a whopping 35%. Players have even suggested foregoing a final check to help offset this. Otherwise, with an average of %15 holding, there would be a 20% tariff on the players instead of any kind of refund. Soon after this was learned, player bonuses were discussed as they are typically due in July. Austin Matthews is due a healthy 15 million dollar check, and there’s the rub. Signing bonuses are exempt from escrow. No one talks about it (in fact they avoid it like the plague). Matthews “salary” is around 900K. Meaning, he would pay about 135K at 15% escrow. As opposed to nearly 1.5 million if his AAV were subjected to escrow. First, good for him. His agent and team got him a huge chunk in his pocket. But, it’s gotten the attention of veterans and depth players. Essentially, the highest paid players in the league pay less escrow than the lowest paid veterans. In fact, Toronto pays out 60 million in bonuses, meaning the team with $40 million committed to 4 forwards pays out less escrow than any team in the league."

I would say that the NHL pay structure sadly imitates life: "Whereas the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"


This needs to be fixed!

I'm curious why you are certain that Fabbri is protected whereas Rasmussen and Svech might not even be with the team any longer? Fabbri is what he is, whereas Ras and Svech have potential. If I'm Seattle and the Wings expose Fabbri and Ras...well I'd take Ras in an instant and hope he develops into a big 3rd line 2-way forward.

I also think Yzerman exploits the fact that other teams may lose quality players for nothing and makes a deal to acquire a player for cheap, and then protects them. So again, Fabbri doesn't get protected. Nor would a guy like Dekeyser.

Jeremy Laura: Yzerman’s brilliant trim job, a possible Wings return? Lindstrom looks back
- Jeremy Laura

If the Wings have a better defense this coming year, I could see Dekeyser being exposed at the ex-draft. Trimming his salary may help an FA or trade acquisition or the salary on that big name FA. (Maybe that is dreaming, but I have to be optimistic) I am happy that Lindstrom is progressing faster than expected. I am unhappy Stevie traded Regula, the Hawks already gave him a contract, so they seem to like his progress. Perlini seems to have tools but no "luck", or is his shot that inaccurate? Hard to tell because it is not as erratic as say one Michael Samuelsson. I would be surpised if Perlini makes the cut.
I am still hopeful that the season and the playoffs are started up in July, after a 1 wk training camp. I say the season because there is some unsettled positioning that should be played out till all teams have played the same amount of games. I think 74- 76 should do it. And maybe the league can settle on a 6-8 game shorter season for the sake of the players and the sake of allowing them to compete in the Olympics!

I'm curious why you are certain that Fabbri is protected whereas Rasmussen and Svech might not even be with the team any longer? Fabbri is what he is, whereas Ras and Svech have potential. If I'm Seattle and the Wings expose Fabbri and Ras...well I'd take Ras in an instant and hope he develops into a big 3rd line 2-way forward.

I also think Yzerman exploits the fact that other teams may lose quality players for nothing and makes a deal to acquire a player for cheap, and then protects them. So again, Fabbri doesn't get protected. Nor would a guy like Dekeyser.
- Kooleus

I was quoting the article (sorry if I didn’t make that clear) when the “protected” list was put together. If you read down I gave my own thoughts that Fabbri’s protection could be swapped. My personal feeling is that Svech or Ras will probably be moved after this year. Again, if I didn’t make that clear enough I apologize

If the Wings have a better defense this coming year, I could see Dekeyser being exposed at the ex-draft. Trimming his salary may help an FA or trade acquisition or the salary on that big name FA. (Maybe that is dreaming, but I have to be optimistic) I am happy that Lindstrom is progressing faster than expected. I am unhappy Stevie traded Regula, the Hawks already gave him a contract, so they seem to like his progress. Perlini seems to have tools but no "luck", or is his shot that inaccurate? Hard to tell because it is not as erratic as say one Michael Samuelsson. I would be surpised if Perlini makes the cut.
I am still hopeful that the season and the playoffs are started up in July, after a 1 wk training camp. I say the season because there is some unsettled positioning that should be played out till all teams have played the same amount of games. I think 74- 76 should do it. And maybe the league can settle on a 6-8 game shorter season for the sake of the players and the sake of allowing them to compete in the Olympics!
- HenryHockey

For sure. IF Yzerman gets a free agent or makes a trade, Dekeyser could certainly be exposed. I’m not in love with the Regula for Perlini trade. But, until it pans out we won’t know if Regula was a huge loss or not. Perlini, for sure, is having a confidence issue. I think a sports Psychologist could help a lot. The pressure of being 3rd overall and fizzing out is a lot for these kids. Getting your headspace clear is invaluable. He could turn things around, but it’s all on him right now.

[quote=HenryHockey]


The biggest (and newest) issue is the young talent that figured out how to “skip” the bridge contract. The owners thought that not having arbitration for those first RFA years gave them security. Now, if a player is good enough, they can sit out indefinitely. I would bring arbitration to the table for all RFAs.

The Escrow issue is such a nightmare. Even an amendment that would subject 50% of signing bonuses to escrow would be a huge improvement. Or, on the other side, teams can give bonuses that count against the cap, but can’t claim that against HRR. It would then put the total expense on the team owners and not be recoverable via Escrow. There are options, but these loopholes were discovered and exploited by agents to increase the value to their clients. It definitely needs to be fixed

I was quoting the article (sorry if I didn’t make that clear) when the “protected” list was put together. If you read down I gave my own thoughts that Fabbri’s protection could be swapped. My personal feeling is that Svech or Ras will probably be moved after this year. Again, if I didn’t make that clear enough I apologize
- Jeremy Laura

Ok. But why don't you think Ras and Svech will be around? Not qualified? Traded?

P.S. Perlini was drafted 12th overall, not 3rd.

Ok. But why don't you think Ras and Svech will be around? Not qualified? Traded?

P.S. Perlini was drafted 12th overall, not 3rd.
- Kooleus

I think one of the two will be traded. It’s just a feeling. Similar to the feeling that AA would be moved. There were rumors that Yzerman wasn’t sold on Ras in particular. I don’t know why.

Apologies in the draft screw up. I was still thinking Strome and that’s on me

I think one of the two will be traded. It’s just a feeling. Similar to the feeling that AA would be moved. There were rumors that Yzerman wasn’t sold on Ras in particular. I don’t know why.
- Jeremy Laura

I don't see Ras on this team going forward either. I think Stevie sees his team as being more mobile and speed oriented. The only way I see Ras is the net front guy on the PP, but were does he fit while 5 on 5? Have him play wing with 2 real mobile guys and he just heads to the net while in the O zone to tip in or pick up rebounds? If he is good on faceoffs does he head to a wing after the puck is in play? And he isn't very durable as well. And then that brings up Sveth. Is he able to stay healthy? I liked him and he showed promise, but if he faulters this upcoming year.....gone. Or maybe Stevie wants to trade him for a goalie?

I don't see Ras on this team going forward either. I think Stevie sees his team as being more mobile and speed oriented. The only way I see Ras is the net front guy on the PP, but were does he fit while 5 on 5? Have him play wing with 2 real mobile guys and he just heads to the net while in the O zone to tip in or pick up rebounds? If he is good on faceoffs does he head to a wing after the puck is in play? And he isn't very durable as well. And then that brings up Sveth. Is he able to stay healthy? I liked him and he showed promise, but if he faulters this upcoming year.....gone. Or maybe Stevie wants to trade him for a goalie?
- HenryHockey

Since his brother was drafted by CAR, I’ve often wondered if they’d try and make a deal to bring him in. Those two are close and would love to play together. Carolina has some good defensemen and possibly a surplus in that area

Since his brother was drafted by CAR, I’ve often wondered if they’d try and make a deal to bring him in. Those two are close and would love to play together. Carolina has some good defensemen and possibly a surplus in that area
- Jeremy Laura

You won't be getting any of the Carolina d-men for Svech. Has almost no trade value. Better off just seeing how he pans out next year.

You won't be getting any of the Carolina d-men for Svech. Has almost no trade value. Better off just seeing how he pans out next year.
- Kooleus

At this point, the only way is with a sweetener for sure. But, CAR is already looking ahead to the expansion draft. They are going to have to offload someone. I think Svech and Ras will both start the year with Detroit. One of the two, just my opinion, will likely be moved. If Svech is having a decent year and he can be converted into a Dman I think Carolina could be a good partner. They know enough not to want to lose someone for nothing.

Just read a statement on another site that Gustav Lindstrom was NOT Seattle Ex-draft exempt because of a year of pro in Sweden.
Anyone?

At this point, the only way is with a sweetener for sure. But, CAR is already looking ahead to the expansion draft. They are going to have to offload someone. I think Svech and Ras will both start the year with Detroit. One of the two, just my opinion, will likely be moved. If Svech is having a decent year and he can be converted into a Dman I think Carolina could be a good partner. They know enough not to want to lose someone for nothing.
- Jeremy Laura

You might want to go through the actual Carolina roster to realize this isn't too realistic. So let's say they protect Hamilton, Slavin, and Peace. They are afraid of losing Skjei or Fleury for nothing. So they trade say Fleury for Svech. But that still leaves Skjei. So they trade him somewhere else for another asset. Great, now they won't lose a young d-man for nothing. Problem solved. Well go look at the forwards they have to protect. They wouldn't be able to protect the newly acquired Svech. So they lose two young d-men, and then lose a very good forward anyway. This is a roster where the best way to maneuver is to simply cut a deal with Seattle. Don't take a d-men, take a forward, and we'll add a sweetener. Or take the Ken Holland approach...we know we're going to lose a good player. But I'm not adding any sweeteners. So go ahead and take Fleury or Skjei. That's life. But I'd suggest you use actual names to see whether it makes sense...