Yep, so police, fireman, public works employees aren't working in cook? I'm upset about all this a well but I guess i subscribe to people first, money second, things 3rd. How businesses have to be so lean to compete against one another, it sucks.

Btw all those not working would get paid anyway, unemployment. I just don't understand how these people are a part of the economy but for whatever reason they shouldn't get any benefits.
- BetweenTheDots

My question is, "does everything have to be so black and white?". I'll probably get some blowback from this, but from a policy standpoint, I don't rank the way you've stated above. There are insane amounts of people out of work right now, and you can only print money for so long.

I don't see why we can't open up the economy to the younger/healthier population (who carry an infinitesimal risk as compared to the elderly) while, at the same time, protecting the elderly and those with co-morbidities (locking down nursing homes, not visiting parents/grandparents, etc). Otherwise, you are going to run out of money really quick. New York, Illinois and California (three of the most populous states) are already discussing/looking for immense federal funding to get close to back on track and functional. CA has already blown through their $20 billion "rainy day fund" (which they were able to create by not servicing a large portion of their debt). You need to get more money pumping through the economy otherwise, you will not be able to support the population.

In my eyes, it is not an either or proposition. It is a matter of doing two things at once.

My question is, "does everything have to be so black and white?". I'll probably get some blowback from this, but from a policy standpoint, I don't rank the way you've stated above. There are insane amounts of people out of work right now, and you can only print money for so long.

I don't see why we can't open up the economy to the younger/healthier population (who carry an infinitesimal risk as compared to the elderly) while, at the same time, protecting the elderly and those with co-morbidities (locking down nursing homes, not visiting parents/grandparents, etc). Otherwise, you are going to run out of money really quick. New York, Illinois and California (three of the most populous states) are already discussing/looking for immense federal funding to get close to back on track and functional. CA has already blown through their $20 billion "rainy day fund" (which they were able to create by not servicing a large portion of their debt). You need to get more money pumping through the economy otherwise, you will not be able to support the population.

In my eyes, it is not an either or proposition. It is a matter of doing two things at once.
- Chunk

THIS

My question is, "does everything have to be so black and white?". I'll probably get some blowback from this, but from a policy standpoint, I don't rank the way you've stated above. There are insane amounts of people out of work right now, and you can only print money for so long.

I don't see why we can't open up the economy to the younger/healthier population (who carry an infinitesimal risk as compared to the elderly) while, at the same time, protecting the elderly and those with co-morbidities (locking down nursing homes, not visiting parents/grandparents, etc). Otherwise, you are going to run out of money really quick. New York, Illinois and California (three of the most populous states) are already discussing/looking for immense federal funding to get close to back on track and functional. CA has already blown through their $20 billion "rainy day fund" (which they were able to create by not servicing a large portion of their debt). You need to get more money pumping through the economy otherwise, you will not be able to support the population.

In my eyes, it is not an either or proposition. It is a matter of doing two things at once.
- Chunk

I am also not saying go back to the way things were before COVID-19. I'm fine with staying 6 feet apart and requiring masks while shopping indoors, washing hands and disinfecting things (as long as all of those things have a proven basis of being effectual). Closing down beaches and hiking trails is pure stupidity, IMO. it is easier to be socially distant, and if by chance you are in close contact with someone who has the virus, you would have to be directly inhaling what they exhale in order to acquire the viral load needed for infection.

Back off reality and into the reality of NHL Draft prospects.

Back to Lundell:

I might have encouraged a slight in regards to him, and I want to make it right.

And others because I am just trying to model patterns that have happens with team selections in the past...when I say he gets picked before Blackhawks select ala Barrett Layton and Jesperi Kotkaniemi...

...and then some here start worrying about his safe pick status and use that to downslide him as undynamic compared to the "flashy" forwards coming out...
well Lundell does various things faster than many of those flashy guys because his head is already quickly thinking "best play" where the others are taking longer to survey so they can assure themselves THEY are that best play, before the actually relent and make the best play...that make sense? And his skating IS really good, has bursts and may not be a lateral dangly but he does have dangle in small space.

And I am gonna venture out and say I think gets selected in the top ten because he plays high paced physical and there is more to come and project as he plays with pros..

So if this IS the case someone is dropping...
and by virtue of past draft practices and the high demand on the NHL team want list, I was suggesting that teams are going to be very interested in the top couple dee-men, even if their boards might point to the forwards as more potential earlier impact etc.
That. MIGHT NOT happen.

Drysdale might be available at slot nine...not an opinion as much as trend leading away the past draft ways because of the thick depth in this one and the fact as even though I highly regard Jamie Drysdale and have seen the abilities and strengths and weaknesses, I think you wait for him to contribute too.
So a team makes him the choice and decides, "yeah we are willing to wait, the kid there are forward IS gonna be good and maybe up quicker because of the. nature of the position, but we will wait.
You know I try to optimistic with the evaluations, hype the kids, and tend to look past all the developmental needs...but,...
Jamie Drysdale, at five eleven is still small, and more importantly not NHL STRONG, so he needs two have that to play with the "power" displayed in junior where it is not so apparent.
I am only throwing all this out there, because if you like him for the Blackhawks, stranger draft drops have happened.
Like the Russian kid the Canucks stole, the Russian kid the Blues stole, Tarasenko, and in the position we are talking THOMAS CHABOT lasting to 16 overall,Noah Dobson at slot 12, at the time I still liked him, Philly taking Ivan Provorov and Columbus right after taking Zack Werenski, none necessarily smaller rearguards either ...

I am also not saying go back to the way things were before COVID-19. I'm fine with staying 6 feet apart and requiring masks while shopping indoors, washing hands and disinfecting things (as long as all of those things have a proven basis of being effectual). Closing down beaches and hiking trails is pure stupidity, IMO. it is easier to be socially distant, and if by chance you are in close contact with someone who has the virus, you would have to be directly inhaling what they exhale in order to acquire the viral load needed for infection.
- Chunk

I would like to see lots of adherence and training to the practices that are excellent attempts at limiting everyone's exposure.

and I totally understand how some see the contradictions of having loaded (many overloaded) grocery stores but say a J C Penny cannot open with less workers and far less crowds if you need to get you some underpants, and will be generating the economy by way of those made in the USA products you are purchasing (cough).
But I am fairly certain via my neighbors description that many of the general population still is not adhering / maybe clueless?
He said he made this turn at the back of the Publix (that is now the new basic architectural design)where the Sushi and fish is, and there was a huge bunched up crowd (I guess trying to make sure they got some fish), LIKE WHEN YOU ENTER A hockey stadium and get scanned for tickets....not in any cue, so he basically could turn around go downstream the entire store length to the front use the front perpendicular aisle to get past that logjam and follow the one way signs back wading his way through to the back again, or he could just soldier through the crowd.

You know what he did - slide past them.

So until you have a majority understanding that ARE doing the space grace, you are not helping...

Back off reality and into the reality of NHL Draft prospects.

Back to Lundell:

I might have encouraged a slight inregards to him, and I want to make it right.

And others because I am just trying to model patterns that have happens with team selections in the past...when I say he gets picked before Blackhawks select ala Barrett Layton and Jesperi Kotkaniemi...

...and then some here start worrying about his safe pick status and use that to downslide him as undynamic compared to the "flashy" forwards coming out...
well Lundell does various things faster than many of those flashy guys because his head is already quickly thinking "best play" where the others are taking longer to survey so they can assure themselves THEY are that best play, before the actually relent and make the best play...that make sense?

And I am gonna venture out and say I think gets selected in the top ten because he plays high paced physical and there is more to come and project as he plays with pros..

So if this IS the case someone is dropping...
and by virtue of past draft practices and the high demand on the NHL team want list, I was suggesting that teams are going to be very interested in the top couple dee-men, even if their boards might point to the forwards as more potential earlier impact etc.
That. MIGHT NOT happen.

Drysdale might be available at slot nine...not an opinion as much as trend leading away the past draft ways because of the thick depth in this one and the fact as even though I highly regard Jamie Drysdale and have seen the abilities and strengths and weaknesses, I think you wait for him to contribute too.
So a team makes him the choice and decides, "yeah we are willing to wait, the kid there are forward IS gonna be good and maybe up quicker because of the. nature of the position, but we will wait.
You know I try to optimistic with the evaluations, hype the kids, and tend to look past all the developmental needs...but,...
Jamie Drysdale, at five eleven is still small, and more importantly not NHL STRONG, so he needs two have that to play with the "power" displayed in junior where it is not so apparent.
I am only throwing all this out there, because if you like him for the Blackhawks, stranger draft drops have happened.
Like the Russian kid the Canucks stole, the Russian kid the Blues stole, Tarasenko, and in the position we are talking THOMAS CHABOT lasting to 16 overall,Noah Dobson at slot 12, at the time I still liked him, Philly taking Ivan Provorov and Columbus right after taking Zack Werenski, none necessarily smaller rearguards either ...
- wiz1901

Wiz (or anyone who is closer to the game), is this something that can be taught or is this more of a natural thing? I've always been interested in what the main differences were between a "playmaker" and a "goal scorer".

Happens every year, businesses constantly failing especially start ups, 90% eventually fail. All of a sudden everyone is worried about it. All of a sudden it's an issue
- BetweenTheDots

Big difference between startups and established small businesses.

I would like to see lots of adherence and training to the practices that are excellent attempts at limiting everyone's exposure.

and I totally understand how some see the contradictions of having loaded (many overloaded) grocery stores but say a J C Penny cannot open with less workers and far less crowds if you need to get you some underpants, and will be generating the economy by way of those made in the USA products you are purchasing (cough).
But I am fairly certain via my neighbors description that many of the general population still is not adhering / maybe clueless?
He said he made this turn at the back of the Publix (that is now the new basic architectural design)where the Sushi and fish is, and there was a huge bunched up crowd (I guess trying to make sure they got some fish), LIKE WHEN YOU ENTER A hockey stadium and get scanned for tickets....not in any cue, so he basically could turn around go downstream the entire store length to the front use the front perpendicular aisle to get past that logjam and follow the one way signs back wading his way through to the back again, or he could just soldier through the crowd.

You know what he did - slide past them.

So until you have a majority understanding that ARE doing the space grace, you are not helping...
- wiz1901

Wiz - I'm not disagreeing with you on these points. This is why I included the caveat that you protect those groups that are at higher risk (i.e. use personal shoppers, delivery of groceries, no visitors at nursing homes, etc).

My question is, "does everything have to be so black and white?". I'll probably get some blowback from this, but from a policy standpoint, I don't rank the way you've stated above. There are insane amounts of people out of work right now, and you can only print money for so long.

I don't see why we can't open up the economy to the younger/healthier population (who carry an infinitesimal risk as compared to the elderly) while, at the same time, protecting the elderly and those with co-morbidities (locking down nursing homes, not visiting parents/grandparents, etc). Otherwise, you are going to run out of money really quick. New York, Illinois and California (three of the most populous states) are already discussing/looking for immense federal funding to get close to back on track and functional. CA has already blown through their $20 billion "rainy day fund" (which they were able to create by not servicing a large portion of their debt). You need to get more money pumping through the economy otherwise, you will not be able to support the population.

In my eyes, it is not an either or proposition. It is a matter of doing two things at once.
- Chunk

That's fine those are your priorities. The economy is (frank)ed already. The only answer is time, but as always there will be new businesses that come out of this that thrive. What most don't realize a business has a life cycle just like a person.

If you want to do the 2 things at once they have 3 guidelines on how to do this unfortunately the government can't even get enough masks made for people.

Big difference between startups and established small businesses.
- tvetter

Most small businesses take up to 10 years to fail

the best thing i heard was they are trying to come up, i think it plugs into your smart phone, and can detect if the virus is around you. Was wondering how long it would take but it might be here sooner than i thought

That's fine those are your priorities. The economy is (frank)ed already. The only answer is time, but as always there will be new businesses that come out of this that thrive. What most don't realize a business has a life cycle just like a person.

If you want to do the 2 things at once they have 3 guidelines on how to do this unfortunately the government can't even get enough masks made for people.
- BetweenTheDots

The reported death rate (in the US) for people between 0-39yrs old is 0.2% (about twice the flu), and that is the rate vs only the confirmed cases (where the flu death rate is currently estimated based on an algorithm).

https://www.worldometers....rus-age-sex-demographics/

Again, if you take more precautions with the elderly and those with co-morbidities, and get more of the population exposed to and recovered from the virus that is better for the overall population. What is better, a vaccine, or developing the antibodies yourself (I would personally say developed antibodies in this case, but I am not nearly close enough to the vaccine research to know for sure)? Either way, you are trying to do the same thing which is lower the transmission rate.

Wiz - I'm not disagreeing with you on these points. This is why I included the caveat that you protect those groups that are at higher risk (i.e. use personal shoppers, delivery of groceries, no visitors at nursing homes, etc).
- Chunk

Yes, those of us who are higher risk need to take ongoing precautions (I'm planning for at least two years for myself which will likely royally F up my future retirement plans). Unfortunately, this bastard disease is not just affecting us and inability to predict who it is going to affect and how and to what long-term effects' end is what I think is causing the hesitancy in so many locales.

For example, this new phenom in NY (area that was hit primarily by the more contagious, more deadly strain of the virus out of Europe).

https://twitter.com/NYGov.../1260265336638668802?s=20

And, other non-high-risk people are recovering, but may now have life-long chronic health issues, etc. etc.. What's economic cost of that?

Issue is finding the balance between economic recovery and health risks, spiking the latter of which can cause renewed or worse issues with the former. Companies and people are already adapting, pretty quickly IMO. In industries hit hardest, like travel, hospitality, and restaurants, you will likely see consolidation and new operating models, but those take time to dream up and implement. We'll see some businesses and industries that we may determine were not as "essential" as we thought - does Wrigleyville need 100s of bars? It's going to hurt no matter how and when we make changes.

Personally, I think it's too early to open because that's what the epidemiologists are saying. However, I also recognize that with too many people out of work and not getting any financial relief, we create a whole new set of health and other issues. I do not envy the people having to make these decisions. I just hope people who decide for themselves what they are willing to risk (as they should) don't also, by extension, decide for others their level of risk.

the best thing i heard was they are trying to come up, i think it plugs into your smart phone, and can detect if the virus is around you. Was wondering how long it would take but it might be here sooner than i thought
- BetweenTheDots

Yeah, they've got something like that up-and-running in Singapore. No choice but to opt in there, I think. Here, it will likely be opt in because of privacy concerns. Also requires a really robust test and contact tracing program, so the cases are identified. 50% of the people carrying and sharing this thing have no symptoms and likely wouldn't be logged under current practices.

The reported death rate (in the US) for people between 0-39yrs old is 0.2% (about twice the flu), and that is the rate vs only the confirmed cases (where the flu death rate is currently estimated based on an algorithm).

https://www.worldometers....rus-age-sex-demographics/

Again, if you take more precautions with the elderly and those with co-morbidities, and get more of the population exposed to and recovered from the virus that is better for the overall population. What is better, a vaccine, or developing the antibodies yourself (I would personally say developed antibodies in this case, but I am not nearly close enough to the vaccine research to know for sure)? Either way, you are trying to do the same thing which is lower the transmission rate.
- Chunk

Every year millions get a flu shot since having had the flu in the past is no guarantee you won't get it again. Even those who get the vaccine get the flu anyway. Some get reinfected in same year. The vaccine has to be tweaked every year b/c the flu morphs and new strains are found. I don't think we're sure yet whether this will behave more like the flu or like chicken pox. I hope they figure that out soon, so we can move forward with that information in mind.

Most small businesses take up to 10 years to fail
- BetweenTheDots

There are many other consequences besides loss of jobs:

A hotline run by the substance abuse and mental health services saw a 1000% increase in calls in April.

Cancer screenings were down 80%. That could mean upwards of 80,000 cases of cancer not diagnosed, or delayed in being diagnosed.

CNN reported that as many as 75,000 people could die due to alcohol and drug abuse, or suicide because of COVID.

There are many other consequences besides loss of jobs:

A hotline run by the substance abuse and mental health services saw a 1000% increase in calls in April.

Cancer screenings were down 80%. That could mean upwards of 80,000 cases of cancer not diagnosed, or delayed in being diagnosed.

CNN reported that as many as 75,000 people could die due to alcohol and drug abuse, or suicide because of COVID.
- tvetter

The horrible hidden costs. On the second point, I was really hoping that bigger medical systems like Northwestern and UofC here could figure out how to migrate those preventative services out of the hospitals where COVID is the focus into other buildings or clinics dedicated to oncology screenings, outpatient surgeries/procedures, etc. Can imagine horribly expensive, but cannot continue with people avoiding all healthcare for fear of contracting this at a facility (though a very real fear).

Just when I started to get excited and starting talking hawk draft, Sydney Crosby is commenting how he prefers the "24 team playoff format"....(frank) that... if hampers our draft position!


Or is the draft staying in June before this "restart?"

If the games are being played in Edmonton, that is a lot of games...round robin or not.

I guess we all wait and see...I mean those of us in the most likely category of fatality, let's try and maybe wait and maybe see

Can imagine horribly expensive, but cannot continue with people avoiding all healthcare for fear of contracting this at a facility (though a very real fear).
- pdx2ord

Yeah, here is Tampa St Pete, they won't let my friend get his schedule hernia surgery for awhile now, and I have on video medical appointment already, but in the next weeks, my wife has two upcoming visits.
I call and ask "Are you changing them over to video, and they say No, we are open"...as was the podiatrist .... all in a central 4 floor building.

It is almost as if all we need was the marching in line governor to open the restaurants and suddenly the now for profit medical profession needs that in office visit if "we" just take social distancing seriously? The reward to them ($) on a foot appointment, a follow up visit has to be fulfilled?

File that in that section were haven't thought what's best out yet.

Just when I started to get excited and starting talking hawk draft, Sydney Crosby is commenting how he prefers the "24 team playoff format"....(frank) that... if hampers our draft position!


Or is the draft staying in June before this "restart?"

If the games are being played in Edmonton, that is a lot of games...round robin or not.

I guess we all wait and see...I mean those of us in the most likely category of fatality, let's try and maybe wait and maybe see
- wiz1901

my guess is they cancel the true regular season. how would a 24 team playoff even work giving 8 BYE's does not make allot of sense because they will probably look sluggish.

maybe a 20 team makes more sense with the bottom 4 in each CONF playing a single play in game.

they will do the draft before the end of the season so they will base the order off on % of points per game.

also why do the MLB players think they should get full money when they are playing in front of no fans and the teams get no parking, concessions ETC? I have a hard time thinking you get 15 owners that agree to pay a full per game salary when there revenue per game is cut down by 60%.

I have a top 100 award winning financial team for years, and my wife and I always thought of it as not really our money, since it was out of our hands to use, just to be moved in and out of investments and the big gains were always riches we had little to take credit for. I have a friend an ex-law enforcement guy who wants to tell be how bad his bonds are doing, how the market is killing him...well, I can't won't start spending my time taking about THIS money, because compared to the huge populations whose money preoccupation is based on not being able to continue to functioning, and that is the bigger issue to me.
But others got protected financially before the threat was acknowledged and ignored...

https://www.bloomberg.com...OCm0IB-6-17mjW8CDOvdobN_U
- wiz1901

How many of those stocks did that guy buy back after they tanked?

Back off reality and into the reality of NHL Draft prospects.

Back to Lundell:

I might have encouraged a slight in regards to him, and I want to make it right.

And others because I am just trying to model patterns that have happens with team selections in the past...when I say he gets picked before Blackhawks select ala Barrett Layton and Jesperi Kotkaniemi...

...and then some here start worrying about his safe pick status and use that to downslide him as undynamic compared to the "flashy" forwards coming out...
well Lundell does various things faster than many of those flashy guys because his head is already quickly thinking "best play" where the others are taking longer to survey so they can assure themselves THEY are that best play, before the actually relent and make the best play...that make sense? And his skating IS really good, has bursts and may not be a lateral dangly but he does have dangle in small space.
- wiz1901

The bolded part is very well put and makes perfect sense to me at least.

As far as current prospects in the pipeline, a few come to mind that fit what you described: Kurashev, Barratt, Soderlund. Sikura, too, actually.

Barratt and Lundell may not be swift of foot but skate well enough while bringing a lot more to the ice to be impact players. Thinking fast, especially in tight spaces, to make the right play cannot be downplayed.

Kurashev isn't going to wow you with blazing speed or highlight reel plays. He just plays a smart 200-foot game with subtle yet powerful offensive skills. Sikura is very similar but does have a little more flash.

Soderlund is an example of a prospect who skates like the wind but knows his options to make plays at top speed. The Rockford coaches need to let him play that game so he can blossom. He's no slouch on defense either so it's not like he sacrifices one for the other.

I am only throwing all this out there, because if you like Drysdale for the Blackhawks, stranger draft drops have happened. Like the Russian kid the Canucks stole, the Russian kid the Blues stole, Tarasenko, and in the position we are talking THOMAS CHABOT lasting to 16 overall,Noah Dobson at slot 12, at the time I still liked him, Philly taking Ivan Provorov and Columbus right after taking Zack Werenski, none necessarily smaller rearguards either ...
- wiz1901

Another great summary of this year's deep 1st and 2nd round. If teams are willing to wait, there are some potential gems as far as defensive defensemen and some who play with an edge.

Barron, Schneider, O'Rourke, even the tall Russian draftee Mukhamadullin are examples.

It would be tough without giving up an impact roster player or higher end prospect but would love for the Blackhawks to garner another 1st rounder. Late teens and 20s is fine.

my guess is they cancel the true regular season. how would a 24 team playoff even work giving 8 BYE's does not make allot of sense because they will probably look sluggish.

maybe a 20 team makes more sense with the bottom 4 in each CONF playing a single play in game.

they will do the draft before the end of the season so they will base the order off on % of points per game.

also why do the MLB players think they should get full money when they are playing in front of no fans and the teams get no parking, concessions ETC? I have a hard time thinking you get 15 owners that agree to pay a full per game salary when there revenue per game is cut down by 60%.
- kmw4631

My guess is that they don't want to set the precedent of what is effectively a salary cap under any circumstances. Yes, baseball has a "salary cap", but the only penalty is having to pay a luxury tax. NHL you can lose picks, contracts, money, forfeit games, etc. Plus all of their contracts are guaranteed, and as far as I can tell there is no stipulation on changing player payout as a result of the pandemic.

Oh Geez:

https://www.secondcityhoc...smustache-twitter-account