Theo Fox: Blaze of Glory
Will the Blackhawks core of Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook add to their ring collection in Chicago? Or should they waive their NTCs to pursue the Cup with teams that are already contenders?

First!

After the Stastny 2.0 experiment and the (likely) eventual trade of Laine, it would be cool to see Toews center the Jets second line for a couple of seasons. (I think it goes without saying that significant salary would need to be retained by Chicago via trade. And that's to move him anywhere, not just to Winnipeg) The trade(s) of Laine, Roslovic, Niku--whom are all rumored to be available--could bring the defensive help we need, and maybe with the addition of Captain Serious we become cup contenders again. One can dream!

Wow young guns and bon jovi reference. Bravo theo, bringing back some memories lol

After the Stastny 2.0 experiment and the (likely) eventual trade of Laine, it would be cool to see Toews center the Jets second line for a couple of seasons. (I think it goes without saying that significant salary would need to be retained by Chicago via trade. And that's to move him anywhere, not just to Winnipeg) The trade(s) of Laine, Roslovic, Nik--whom are all rumored to be available--could bring the defensive help we need, and maybe with the addition of Captain Serious we become cup contenders again. One can dream!
- Quillanrocks

Thanks for stopping in! Always great to hear from fans of other teams.

I know many would be curious but what would Jets fans be willing to trade for Toews?

Salary retained is fine and could be a way to sweeten the pot for Chicago if Winnipeg adds more on their end.

I agree the hawks should fold and start the rebuild but I don't think Bowman will do it, they'll have to bring someone else in to do the dirty work.

Thanks for stopping in! Always great to hear from fans of other teams.

I know many would be curious but what would Jets fans be willing to trade for Toews?

Salary retained is fine and could be a way to sweeten the pot for Chicago if Winnipeg adds more on their end.
- Theo Fox

Tough to say cuz I'm looking at this possibility a year from now, but maybe David Gustafsson or possibly even Vesalainen and perhaps a couple of draft picks, one in '21 and another in '23. (?) The more salary Chicago retains, the higher the round of the '21 pick, while the "level" of the '23 pick could be conditional to Winnipeg's playoff success in either of the 2 years remaining on his contract (cuz let's face it, we want him for the playoffs! ) Just spit-balling! Thoughts?

I think the possibility of the Hawks moving on from the remaining core players is more likely now that McD is gone. I imagine that if Stan presented Danny Wirtz with a cogent plan to move the core out, lower costs, and expedite the rebuild toward competing for a championship again - Danny Wirtz would approve it.

I have my doubts about Stan being the best architect for a rebuild, but I don’t doubt his nerve/resolve to trade away the remaining core. It’s quite possible these conversations are already underway amongst the Hawks executive team, as witnessed by the Crawford and Saad deals?

The next season (whenever it starts) will be interesting, as now on paper the Hawks are going to be a bad team. Will the frustration from losing get to a point where the remaining core become more open to moving on to another team?

I agree the hawks should fold and start the rebuild but I don't think Bowman will do it, they'll have to bring someone else in to do the dirty work.
- Udogs

I'm no Bowman fan, but he shed Crawford and Saad already. I don't think he's waiting to start the rebuild. There isn't much he can do with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook to hasten the rebuild considering their contracts.

Great post. Pat Kane grew up in my neighborhood in South Buffalo (though I am 47). Bringing him home would be a PR and on ice homerun for Buffalo. What would it take to move one of the very best American born players ever? I'll start with Sam Reinhart, Montour or Risto, Mittlestadt, and '21 1st.

After the Stastny 2.0 experiment and the (likely) eventual trade of Laine, it would be cool to see Toews center the Jets second line for a couple of seasons. (I think it goes without saying that significant salary would need to be retained by Chicago via trade. And that's to move him anywhere, not just to Winnipeg) The trade(s) of Laine, Roslovic, Niku--whom are all rumored to be available--could bring the defensive help we need, and maybe with the addition of Captain Serious we become cup contenders again. One can dream!
- Quillanrocks

Toews and Kane have 3 years left on their deals. The only way they leave Chicago is because they asked to be traded, and at that point, since they are both still effective players, the Hawks would need to maximize the return. Kane especially is still one of the elite in the league, there should be no retaining salary on any trade of him. In terms of Toews, he is also still effective, and salary retained on him would not exceed $2mil or so. With both of them the Hawks would need to get top prospects and/or first round picks. Seabrook on the other hand bar some miracle of a stupid GM, the Hawks will need to retain salary AND probably sweeten the deal with a pick or prospect.

I feel that if the team were to move on with the core, now would be the time, but unfortunately with the uncertainty of play (and cap restrictions) it would be nearly impossible to move them for fair value now. I would think that in their final year of the current contract (for Toews, Kane, Keith) that would be the time to trade them at the TDL (if that is the plan) since salary is really a non-issue at that point.

As a St Louis Blues fan I always hated Toews and Cane, But had much respect for them as players and would love see either one on the Blues as we chase another cup.
I always wonder what would have been if the Blues had drafted Toews instead of Eric Johnson back in their draft year.It was also reported at the time the Blues tried very hard to swing a deal with the Hawks to trade up for Patrick Cane.He reminds me of baseball player Pete Rose. I hated him as a player, but would have loved to have him on my team.

Question: Do they (any combination) - have no movement clauses?

If so - it is academic - it would be up to them, and not the team although the team could ask any to waive - in the end, it still is the players' choice (assuming NMC) - so not entirely clear that is even a thing.

Toews and Kane have 3 years left on their deals. The only way they leave Chicago is because they asked to be traded, and at that point, since they are both still effective players, the Hawks would need to maximize the return. Kane especially is still one of the elite in the league, there should be no retaining salary on any trade of him. In terms of Toews, he is also still effective, and salary retained on him would not exceed $2mil or so. With both of them the Hawks would need to get top prospects and/or first round picks. Seabrook on the other hand bar some miracle of a stupid GM, the Hawks will need to retain salary AND probably sweeten the deal with a pick or prospect.
- TheTrob

Well said...also the Hawks have plenty of high end prospects to sweeten any Seabrook
trade with...Nylander, Subban lol sorry

As a St Louis Blues fan I always hated Toews and Cane, But had much respect for them as players and would love see either one on the Blues as we chase another cup.
I always wonder what would have been if the Blues had drafted Toews instead of Eric Johnson back in their draft year.It was also reported at the time the Blues tried very hard to swing a deal with the Hawks to trade up for Patrick Cane.He reminds me of baseball player Pete Rose. I hated him as a player, but would have loved to have him on my team.
- BluesStrong

Kane

I hate to say it but you may be right . Each one of this individuals need to make up there own mind. I hate to see Toews in a Hab's sweater or Kane in a Sabre's but the reality is there a rebuild is coming . And it is going to take some time. So that 3-5 years being in the bottom 5 hoping to get lucky and get a couple of good picks .

Interesting that currently, when Toews and Kane are in the final year of their deal (3 more years not that far away), the Hawks have only 4 (Seabs and Keith are the other 2 ) NHL contracts on the books. The only other “for certain” Hawk still with the team is Dach.

Stan has already blown it up, with COVID placing uncertainty on future revenues I could see one or both of 19 and 88 in another uniform in the next couple of seasons. Only reason to “retain” salary is cap considerations of the trading party, because The actual cash outlay for both is less than cap hit.

If Kane or Toews wanted out, they are both represented by Pat Brisson, currently the most powerful agent in the NHL. He would probably be the one negotiating between the 2;trading parties more so than the respective GM’s.

Is it a rebuild still holding onto the core - my answer is no. Can Bowman handle a rebuild - my answer is no again. He's better at retooling & adding on. I don't see much changing with them here & I'm not a Bowman basher & I'd rather the core retire as hawks. If they all went different ways, I'd still be happy. I just know the results wouldn't change much. Trading Kane is the best bet for the best return, but as a fan, I know I won't like it. But I'm biased.

I'm okay with Bowman handing out 1 year contracts to relatively young players. Either keep those who earned it or trade those who don't fit the plan. Bowman has been a lottery gm - take a risk for high upside, reclaim a former first round, try again with a former hawk ... I think I've had enough. I'm ready for another gm. I just don't know who would want to handle a rebuild.

Seems to me - in a hard cap league even without the pandemic creating havoc wit HRR - but particularly with the stagnant cap - teams can’t do a slow rebuild.

They have to plan on becoming Cup competitive in two or three years, and hope to get a three-year window of being in the mix. They can’t look to begin getting good in two or three years and becoming Cup-ready in four or five.

After two years or so, the prospects on ELCs are going on to their second contracts - several at the same time. Then - with the core contracts still at $26MM cap hit - they’re back up against the cap. Yeah, the core contracts come off - but there are no mid-cap-hit players on the roster - star players in the 28-30 year old range to lead the team (and championship teams need veteran leadership who can play) because the hard stagnant cap wouldn’t allow the team to sign them.

The Hawks will need more players like Murphy, Saad, others in the 27-28 year old range today who can play and provide the experience and leadership to go with whatever talent the young players bring.

I don’t know that it can be done with the large core cap hits still on the roster.

How the hell does a guy spell Toews right and Kane wrong?

There is a good way to gain perspective on a trade. Pretend you are the other GM. Since Winnioeg has been mentioned, use them as an example.

What are you getting and how are the older core Blackhawk players going to improve your team? Whom do they replace and whom on Winnioeg might produce or become a greater impact player due to Keith or Toews joining up

The only player I'd want is Kane. Keith and Toews remain good players but they aren't the top quality goods now as grizzled veterans. Although arrangements may be negotiable regarding the high salary of these Blackhawk players, you don't trade for over the hill veterans unless maybe your team is rated highly and a veteran could provide that little bit extra depth and ability to make a difference in going all the way to the Cup final.

Surrendering your top prosoect and a #1 for Kane is surely expected. With salaries and attendance major issues in the foreseeable future, it is a gambke to trade away a big part of your future for Kane. Definitely gambling to do so.

Nostalgia Is nice but gets lost in the way players move about frequently in each of the professional sports. nowadays. The old days of arguing whom is better, Billy Williams or Richard Allen AND even in Sammy Sosa's heyday if Sisa or Bonds......rarely will you see players stay an entire career.

I don't expect that Toews, Keith would finish in Chicago if their contracts were less. Maybe Kane will last to Keith's age if he is ever traded. Kane retains higher value. But whom would pay for an old Kane.

No...older Bkackhawks might garner mild interest but only if they come cheap. Nostalgia wax poetic if you want but the world is much different now includung how we perceive our old heroes.

So you're asking me which one rules - my head or my heart? I suppose my answer depends on which side of the pillow I happen to wake up on on any given day.

I think I would prefer to frame the question in something other than all or nothing. Rather than deciding whether to keep them all or trade them all, would this game allow me to keep one and trade the other three or is that against the spirit of the question? If it's not all or nothing - I would keep Kane and trade the other three mainly because I think Kane has more shelf life left then the others and he's the only true driver of offense between them.

Smith and Delia for MAF and Krebs. Git er’ dunn!

The delicate balance in all this is your fan base.

You can't entertain departures (whether they are player or team desired) readily if you want to keep your season ticket base.

The rangers sent that letter out to the season ticket holders about a rebuild, but they had only a few mainstay stars they needed to dispatch and their team hadn't won anything...

BUT...right now, there are no physical fan base buying the booze, ice cream and popcorn...

I just know it is far too difficult to predict and build a Cup winning team, or every team would have won one by now.

You can rebuild build, trim cap, and keep trying to replace and evolve by way of the draft, trades, but there is a certain amount of luck that gets you there.

(Look at the Lightning...all the things that had to happen and it still took a fairly low g time.)

So you need the Lukas Reichel's to be more than what the critics are saying about the present version.
You need the Philipp Kurashev to not be a chicken crap, your defense to grown tough and aggressive and add snarl, your goaltenders to emerge and the scoring have to continue to be there with young added scoring.

I think that is a fairly big ask.
I am not so sure the Hawks can reposition all that before I am ashes.

It has less to do with the GM and coach as it does all the factors including coaching and GM-ing...