HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Top-5 centers in the Western Conference?

Pretty amazing you have two of the best centers in the NHL, let alone the West, and you can’t seem to build a quality team around them......Edmonton?

1) MacKinnon
2) McDavid
3) Draisaitl
4) Scheifele
5) Kopitar

HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Top-5 centers in the Western Conference?
- ToddCordellVAN

Shouldn’t a Center be also good at face offs and have a good defensive game. Great players for sure, but a few suck at face offs, (McDavid, Pettersson, MacKinnon).

And McDavid is arguably the best player in the NHL at scoring points but sucks defensively.

McDavid
Nate Dawg
Pettersson
Draisaitl
Seguin

100%

You are an idiot. Connor McDavid is top 4 in the league in take aways lol. His defensive game is just fine.
- Rev

That doesn't mean he is good defensively. They get scored on a ton while he is out there. He also plays more minutes than any forward and has a ton of give away's.

97 points and -6 it could use some work...don't get all butt hurt

Shouldn’t a Center be also good at face offs and have a good defensive game. Great players for sure, but a few suck at face offs, (McDavid, Pettersson, MacKinnon).

And McDavid is arguably the best player in the NHL at scoring points but sucks defensively.
- Makita

Faceoffs really don't matter all that much. McDavid also doesn't suck at faceoffs. Best in the league is around 60%, McDavid is around 50 and the other two are low 40s. So even comparing the best guy in the league to MacKinnon and Petterson, he's only winning 2 faceoffs more a game.

It's better to win a faceoff than lose it, but they don't have a major impact on the game.

TL;DR: McDavid and Draisaitl aren't as bad defensively as some here would have you believe. They certainly could and likely will improve in this capacity, but context is key when assessing these sorts of things.
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While fair when viewed through the stats lens, I think a fair deal of the "McDavid and Draisaitl suck at defense" narrative ignores context. A large portion of their statistical defensive shortcomings come from their TOI alongside eachother. Prior to 2020, when those two are out together, they were just about the only hope for the Oilers to score a goal. No other line could reliably be counted on to score goals- let alone outscore. Imagine the mindset that puts a player in: "either we score or our team doesn't". Do you reckon a player is gonna cheat a bit for offense when in that frame of mind?

I'll be the first to admit that both McDavid and Draisaitl's defensive games aren't good when they're on the ice together, but the team's blackhole of offense when they were off should serve to explain this to some degree. When apart this past season, it wasn't a problem because the team acquired JUST enough skill to run fill-out two top-6 lines.

On-ice goals per 60
Together: 3.69 GF/60 and 3.9 GA/60 (553 mins)
McD away: 3.34 GF/60 and 2.63 GA/60 (502 mins)
Drai away: 3.44 GF/60 and 2.56 GA/60 (610 mins)

For context, here are some numbers from the top lines in the NHL this past season:

Bergeron w/ Marchand: 3.99 GF/60 and 2.22 GA/60
Point w/ Kucherov: 4.26 GF/60 and 2.05 GA/60
Panarin w/ Strome: 4.11 GF/60 and 2.14 GA/60
Malkin w/ Rust: 4.29 GF/60 and 2.8 GA/60
Matthews w/ Marner: 3.47 GF/60 and 2.46 GA/60
Mackinnon w/ Landeskog: 3.32 GF/60 and 2.44 GA/60*

*Mack w/ Rantanen was worse so I picked Landy

McDavid w/ Kassian & whatever garbage bag they tossed on LW and Drai w/ Nuge & Yamamoto stack up quite well to some of those lines. Since that's only an analysis of raw GF Vs GA, what would their relative numbers look like?

Relative on-ice goals per 60
Together: +1.47 GF/60 and +1.38 GA/60 (+1.77 relGF%)
McD away: +1.03 GF/60 and -0.16 GA/60 (+10.71 relGF%)
Drai away: +1.21 GF/60 and -0.2 GA/60 (+12.65 relGF%)

Bergeron w/ Marchand: +1.99 GF/60 and +0.32 GA/60 (+12.88 relGF%)
Point w/ Kucherov: +1.64 GF/60 and -0.25 GA/60 (+14.24 relGF%)
Panarin w/ Strome: +1.72 GF/60 and -0.58 GA/60 (+18.96 relGF%)
Malkin w/ Rust: +2.23 GF/60 and +0.34 GA/60 (+15.0 relGF%)
Matthews w/ Marner: +0.8 GF/60 -0.26 GA/60 (+8.96 relGF%)
Mackinnon w/ Landeskog: +0.6 and +0.44 GA/60 (+0.01 relGF%)

With team context now factored in, I think there's a lot less to complain about with McDavid and Draisaitl's respective defensive warts. As per normal, players on worse teams get a disproportionate amount of blame for their failings while ignoring the context surrounding them. Same as ever.

The duo used to work wonders together which is likely why they stuck to it as long as they did (December 2019 explains their minuses). However, when on separate lines with sufficient skill around them, they outperformed the team average on offense by a mile and held up their defensive end of the bargain, too.

What's the criteria we for evaluating the best? Is it points.. cause if so you can just look at the scoring leaders and there's no debate. If you're arguing any other element of a center iceman's game like FW% or +/- or leadership, or contract, or cups, or simply winning the fricken game then McDavid and Drai just dont belong in the conversation. They're wonderful at putting up points but that's all they're good at which is why Edmonton is the dumpster fire of the western conference. Then are you asking about last season? This upcoming season? The best career to date? Define the parameters then argue who's "best"

HockeyBuzz Hotstove: Top-5 centers in the Western Conference?
- ToddCordellVAN

Where's Tanner when you need him. Clearly Stepan/Schmaltz are the best 2 C's in this league.