Ekholm on this team give us a solid top 4 D moving forward, and takes the pressure off of Sanheim and Myers, which may help them develop faster. That is one step in getting closer to being a contender. We don't Ray Bourque and Paul Coffey on our backend to be contenders, we just need 4 really good players.
- jd250

Everyone knows you don’t make a trade unless it turns you into a legit contender....that’s a new one.

Its hardly my fault you forget so much (by your own admission, as you said last year: "I am mid fifties, and I can't remember squat").

You were famous in those days for sticking to the Flyers company line. Many believed you worked for the Flyers. You were also branded "Hockey Jesus" by a certain carpenter from NC/Virginia. I think his name was Lukin.

Don't tell me you have forgotten all that.
- PT21

I haven't forgotten anything. I'm being reasonable and asking if you're going to bring up supposed comments from over a decade ago into the conversation, then provide the documentation of that. Otherwise you're just being a fool, which is what you're famous for.

Are we making the prime years of Hayes and Couturier a target when to make a Stanley Cup move? If not, your take is fine.

But if we are, imo, we need bigger fish than Ekholm. Bigger fish take resources. Throwing away some of those resources towards someone else is detracting from your ability to get that bigger fish.
- PT21

Yes I am making these prime years of Couturier and Hayes a target. Like it or not Hayes is signed for 5 more years at over $7M, so you better make it work right now, because I have no confidence he will get better years from now. Ekholm is a piece but an important piece because he stabilizes your D pairings, and gives time for Sanheim and Myers to further develop. Then consider Farabee is only going to get better, and we all think Hart is the real deal, so you've got a good starting point. However York, Foerster and O'Brien are not going to be ready for a few more years and there is really nothing else in our system that I feel will make a difference, so you have to make moves to get to being a contender.

Impending UFAs then.
- PT21

So the Flyers should waste more assets to acquire impending UFA's like they did with Hayes? I'll pass on that.

[quote=MJL]Adding a player like Ekholm to the team in it's current level of play defensively would have minimal effect. /quote]

Please provide me with documentation proving this minimal effect.


- PT21

I already did that.

Yes I am making these prime years of Couturier and Hayes a target. Like it or not Hayes is signed for 5 more years at over $7M, so you better make it work right now, because I have no confidence he will get better years from now. Ekholm is a piece but an important piece because he stabilizes your D pairings, and gives time for Sanheim and Myers to further develop. Then consider Farabee is only going to get better, and we all think Hart is the real deal, so you've got a good starting point. However York, Foerster and O'Brien are not going to be ready for a few more years and there is really nothing else in our system that I feel will make a difference, so you have to make moves to get to being a contender.
- jd250

Did you forget that the Flyers are either losing Myers in the trade for Ekholm or are losing Sanheim in the expansion draft due to trading for Ekholm?

Trying to trade your way into being a contender is a mistake.

In my humble opinion, you might be misunderstanding the subtlety of Hextall's vision. I am conjecturing here, but this is my take:

1. What do we see common to all champs from post lockout era? Stars on the roster who are critical pieces to the success. The closest exception to this is S. Louis, but even they had Pietro. And even if I grant you Blues, they are one out of 16 now.

2. How do you get said stars? The most likely way by far is very high picks.Is that a certain way to success? No, but it is the most common.

Even proud franchises with recent success do it after a certain era ends. Example, Lightning drafted Stamhos and Hedman 1 and 2 in 08-09. Colorado drafted Mackinnon, Makar in top 5, Rantanen top 10. They are not too proud to do some sustained sucking. Detroit is doing it now.



But we won't. I think its nutso, but whatever. Lets move on to what Hextall can do in these circumstances.

3. He inherited a mess of a franchise, full of bloated contracts. That franchise will not also get top 10 picks at a sustained level. What to do with these constraints? The answer to this is in steps 4-5.

4. Slowly free up salary cap, chip away at bloat, and pile picks and pile picks, which are likely to be middle first round picks or thereabouts. Do the minimum necessary to keep team no better than this level.

5. Then see what you have from pool of picks. Wait for Giroux and Voracek contracts to come off the books. You now have salary space, lots of prospects for trade value, and a young team.

6. Then you make your move/s. You have hopefully some very good secondary pieces and you get the stars through trade or FA.

Imo, Flyers needed to give Hextall 3 more years to see his plan through. It is misguided to say he did not take the team to the next level. The time had not yet come to make a move.

There is one example of this model. That is Boston. Boston had a young Bergeron and Krejci in the fold already when they signed Chara, who along with his partner Redden, was a prized FA. Lot of key pieces were picked up via trade and FA signings: Horton, Seidenberg, and probably some others I do not remember.

Unfortunately, the franchise that pridesitself on being tough guys could not take the pain. They turned on the A/C and signed Hayes. Now apparently, they will sign more.
- PT21

With all due respect I fully understood and agreed with what Hextall was trying to do. But like anything there is shelf life in professional sports. There is not an unlimited time frame for these things. The Flyers were heading in the wrong direction and it’s pretty apparent that Hextall did not want to make a coaching change and was un willing to deviate from his course.
To me he was fired with cause. I never get to loyal or attached to the people. I’m loyal to the team. Results do matter.

What does the outside word think of our future:

Prospects:
Frost, and York figure in every list and usually Brink too. But they are in the lower middle of most lists nowhere near the top.

https://thehockeywriters....op-100-prospects-ranking/
https://theathletic.com/2...-post-2020-draft-edition/

and many others....

Young players:

In most lists I look at, we have only 1-2 top young players and they are pretty low on the list.
(under 25)
https://nhl.nbcsports.com...astrnak-elias-pettersson/
(Under 23)
https://theathletic.com/2...-post-2020-draft-edition/

Yes, I know they will get better. But so will their peers.

Current vets:
Only 1 player in top 50, Couts at #41, ranked #18 Center (down from 17 last year).

https://www.nhl.com/news/...c-319748142?tid=290583266

I draw the conclusion that this team is currently and in the future, based at best on a large # of good but not great players. Since such teams almost never win the cup, the conclusions for now and the future seem fairly obvious.

Did you forget that the Flyers are either losing Myers in the trade for
- MJL[b]Ekholm or are losing Sanheim in the expansion draft due to trading for Ekholm?

Trying to trade your way into being a contender is a mistake.

How do you know this?

What does the outside word think of our future:

Prospects:
Frost, and York figure in every list and usually Brink too. But they are in the lower middle of most lists nowhere near the top.

https://thehockeywriters....op-100-prospects-ranking/
https://theathletic.com/2...-post-2020-draft-edition/

and many others....

Young players:

In most lists I look at, we have only 1-2 top young players and they are pretty low on the list.
(under 25)
https://nhl.nbcsports.com...astrnak-elias-pettersson/
(Under 23)
https://theathletic.com/2...-post-2020-draft-edition/

Yes, I know they will get better. But so will their peers.

Current vets:
Only 1 player in top 50, Couts at #41, ranked #18 Center (down from 17 last year).

https://www.nhl.com/news/...c-319748142?tid=290583266

I draw the conclusion that this team is currently and in the future, based at best on a large # of good but not great players. Since such teams almost never win the cup, the conclusions for now and the future seem fairly obvious.
- PT21

Lucky for the Flyers that the fate of a team does not rely on individual player rankings on websites but rather on the collection of players that make up that team and how they mesh and play as a team.

Compete, focus on the details and engage physically and commit to doing it for every shift, the entire game. Those are the c’s in success. Oh, and please win.

Let’s go Flyers!

I haven't forgotten anything. I'm being reasonable and asking if you're going to bring up supposed comments from over a decade ago into the conversation, then provide the documentation of that. Otherwise you're just being a fool, which is what you're famous for.
- MJL

What documentation could I reasonably provide? As you know, pages are not searchable for Hockeybuzz.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to lose your cool.

They also need to reach the cap floor. And he is a name to help sell to fans. Not saying it’s going to be him.

If I’m Seattle I do similar to vegas. Stock d as you can sell for assets or two for ones.

If I remember the first year vegas had plenty of cap space.
- Peter Richards

It will be very interesting how they go about building a team....maybe they do go for some high priced vets in order to get some name recognition....ie Fluery to Vegas. Things can change over the next few months. Other trades, other signings. Obviously the ED is a factor but i wouldn’t think it outweighs the betterment of the teams future.

How do you know this?
- Peter Richards

I don't. That was comments made by jd250. He said he would trade Myers, a 1st round pick for Ekholm. He later amended that to not trading Myers and then trading Gostisbhere in a package for Ekholm and then protecting Provorov, Myers and Ekholm in the expansion draft. Leaving Sanheim unprotected.

It will be very interesting how they go about building a team....maybe they do go for some high priced vets in order to get some name recognition....ie Fluery to Vegas. Things can change over the next few months. Other trades, other signings. Obviously the ED is a factor but i wouldn’t think it outweighs the betterment of the teams future.
- landros 2

Agree. After the trade deadline and maybe a few early offseason trades everyone should have a good idea of who will be exposed. I don’t think they will be able to get as much as vegas did as gm s may be a little more cautious. Will be fun to watch.

What documentation could I reasonably provide? As you know, pages are not searchable for Hockeybuzz.

I was wondering how long it would take for you to lose your cool.
- PT21

Hmm, I haven't lost my cool at all. Actually the guy who has lost it is the guy who is bringing up alleged comments from over a decade ago into the conversation. Why is the need to do so in the first place? It is only reasonable that if you can't back it up, you don't do that. If you're a reasonable person anyway.

With all due respect I fully understood and agreed with what Hextall was trying to do. But like anything there is shelf life in professional sports. There is not an unlimited time frame for these things.
- landros 2

You say you fully understand, and yet right above, you ignore the part that says that he was waiting for the Giroux/Voracek salary cap space being freed.

If you are drafting outside top 10 for the most part, and playing the long game, then the results are exactly what they should have been.

The very nature of the plan was low level stagnation till the time came.

Compete, focus on the details and engage physically and commit to doing it for every shift, the entire game. Those are the c’s in success. Oh, and please win.

Let’s go Flyers!
- NC Flyers Fan

When you have a lane ......shoot. Simple passes. Support the puck on both sides.

I don't. That was comments made by jd250. He said he would trade Myers, a 1st round pick for Ekholm. He later amended that to not trading Myers and then trading Gostisbhere in a package for Ekholm and then protecting Provorov, Myers and Ekholm in the expansion draft. Leaving Sanheim unprotected.
- MJL

Thanks. Never mind.

You say you fully understand, and yet right above, you ignore the part that says that he was waiting for the Giroux/Voracek salary cap space being freed.

If you are drafting outside top 10 for the most part, and playing the long game, then the results are exactly what they should have been.

The very nature of the plan was low level stagnation till the time came.
- PT21

Most of this is not accurate. The nature of the plan was not low level stagnation. The Flyers made the playoffs during Hextall's tenure. They still wanted to be competitive. Drafting inside the top 10 is not the only way. You can get plenty of really good players outside of the top 10.

Agree. After the trade deadline and maybe a few early offseason trades everyone should have a good idea of who will be exposed. I don’t think they will be able to get as much as vegas did as gm s may be a little more cautious. Will be fun to watch.
- Peter Richards

Maybe , maybe not. I think the flat cap may give the Kraken a look at some pretty good talent as some teams look to divest them selves of salary. It will be pretty interesting for sure.

Hmm, I haven't lost my cool at all. Actually the guy who has lost it is the guy who is bringing up alleged comments from over a decade ago into the conversation. Why is the need to do so in the first place? It is only reasonable that if you can't back it up, you don't do that. If you're a reasonable person anyway.
- MJL

I am referring to something that actually happened and something you are well known for. It was germane to the conversation. It is what you have said for decade and a half now. As I mentioned, it cannot be proved. I was hoping you would remember.

Anyway, you were doing well in not responding obsessively to my every post with silly insults, so I thought I would lift the self-imposed ban.

But pathological traits are hard to get rid of and, well, it was nice talking to you.

Probably needs to wait til after the expansion draft but with what a tire fire the Sabres have become (both in the front office and on ice) I’d have some interest in Ristolainen. Eichel might very well get dealt but I think it’s a pipe dream to think Chuck would blow up our team to add him.

When you have a lane ......shoot. Simple passes. Support the puck on both sides.
- Peter Richards

Excellent job with the s’s. The vowels are free...if anyone feels inspired!

I am referring to something that actually happened and something you are well known for. It was germane to the conversation. It is what you have said for decade and a half now. As I mentioned, it cannot be proved. I was hoping you would remember.

Anyway, you were doing well in not responding obsessively to my every post with silly insults, so I thought I would lift the self-imposed ban.

But pathological traits are hard to get rid of and, well, it was nice talking to you.
- PT21

It wasn't germane to the conversation! LMAO. What are you talking about? It was just you trying to take a shot. Unsuccessfully. You turned an adult conversation into nonsense. Now you pile on more nonsense. Nothing has changed.