Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 3/13/21 vs. WSH

lose 5-2 4-1?

lose 5-2 4-1?
- 2Real

Take your pick (or shovel)

Although the club has done a better job of late in generating shots and has been excellent on faceoffs, continued problems with puck management, defensive coverages, giving back a goal right after scoring one, failures on both sides of special teams, and some stoppable save opportunities that have gone in their net have turned winnable games into losses.
-bmeltzer

Don't forget to add: dogging it on the back check, passing the puck out of prime shooting areas, and leading the league in failed d-zone clearing attempts. The list is growing every week.

Don't forget to add: dogging it on the back check, passing the puck out of prime shooting areas, and leading the league in failed d-zone clearing attempts. The list is growing every week.
- jd250

Have they given up on the coaching staff? So many of their issues are on the players being lazy and stupid. I really don’t understand. That 10 game streak at the end of last regular season was clearly an anomaly. This team is the inconsistent trash we saw in the playoffs 6 months ago. I think it’s time to start moving veteran pieces and go with a youth movement.

Have they given up on the coaching staff? So many of their issues are on the players being lazy and stupid. I really don’t understand. That 10 game streak at the end of last regular season was clearly an anomaly. This team is the inconsistent trash we saw in the playoffs 6 months ago. I think it’s time to start moving veteran pieces and go with a youth movement.
- ClaudeFather

Tell me how you do that. Not looking for specifics but in general.

Tell me how you do that. Not looking for specifics but in general.
- MJL

Shop some of our veteran guys and send out who’s going to get you the best return (looking for young promising prospect or a high pick from a bad team). Hopefully you can move out two or three guys. The new core of this team is relatively young in Hart Meyers Sanheim Coots TK Farabee. What exactly are we doing now? Just hoping they turn it around? Say they do, what is this team at best, win 1 round of playoffs ?

Shop some of our veteran guys and send out who’s going to get you the best return (looking for young promising prospect or a high pick from a bad team). Hopefully you can move out two or three guys. The new core of this team is relatively young in Hart Meyers Sanheim Coots TK Farabee. What exactly are we doing now? Just hoping they turn it around? Say they do, what is this team at best, win 1 round of playoffs ?
- ClaudeFather

I was looking for a little more in depth than that. Look at the cap picture for teams this year. The cap is going to stay flat for the next 2-3 seasons. Trading good but declining older players with large cap hits is easier said than done.

Listen, there is nothing new going on. It always was and still is about the young players developing. Firing Hextall and adding some veteran players didn't change anything in reality.

So Ovie is having his way with the Flyers this year just like the Bruins best players have had and also the Pens top tandem. They handled all these teams better least season. Why? Because they had a legit shutdown #1 defense pairing last year and this year they don't due to the GM not taking care of that glaring hole in the lineup! He also made a blunder by not resigning Pitlick. These issues are solely on the shoulders of the sleep walking GM!! Oh, and if I'm coach Jakey sits as a healthy scratch tonight!!
What is it telling the young players on this team when a supposed veteran leader(he's not really a leader) makes a lazy play like that? Sit him and let him have one of his hissy fits!! The losing culture has to be changed!!

I was looking for a little more in depth than that. Look at the cap picture for teams this year. The cap is going to stay flat for the next 2-3 seasons. Trading good but declining older players with large cap hits is easier said than done.

Listen, there is nothing new going on. It always was and still is about the young players developing. Firing Hextall and adding some veteran players didn't change anything in reality.
- MJL

Lol you said in general. Might be best to make some moves in the off-season before and after Seattle draft

Have they given up on the coaching staff? So many of their issues are on the players being lazy and stupid. I really don’t understand. That 10 game streak at the end of last regular season was clearly an anomaly. This team is the inconsistent trash we saw in the playoffs 6 months ago. I think it’s time to start moving veteran pieces and go with a youth movement.
-ClaudFather

I don't think they have given up. As bad as this team has played, they are trying hard every single game, that much is certain. In the end, winning is contagious, but unfortunately so is losing. Another thing that has been consistent of this team, even before AV came in, is bad starts to hockey games, especially at home. No team can continue to come back from 2 or 3 goal deficits and win a hockey game. I guess we need to add this to the list also: Bad starts to hockey games! I feel bad for AV right now, he really looks beaten up.

So Ovie is having his way with the Flyers this year just like the Bruins best players have had and also the Pens top tandem. They handled all these teams better least season. Why? Because they had a legit shutdown #1 defense pairing last year and this year they don't due to the GM not taking care of that glaring hole in the lineup! He also made a blunder by not resigning Pitlick. These issues are solely on the shoulders of the sleep walking GM!! Oh, and if I'm coach Jakey sits as a healthy scratch tonight!!
What is it telling the young players on this team when a supposed veteran leader(he's not really a leader) makes a lazy play like that? Sit him and let him have one of his hissy fits!! The losing culture has to be changed!!
- Phillywhiteout

Isolating it down to being about losing one player, Niskanen, is simply not correct. The defensive issues are a team wide issue and not about one player.
I have a hard time understanding why some don't understand why Niskanen was not replaced. It just wasn't available. It's like going to grocery store for some diet coke and they're all out. Can't buy it if they don't have it.

Lol you said in general. Might be best to make some moves in the off-season before and after Seattle draft
- ClaudeFather

Discuss the league wide cap situation and how the Flyers accomplish what you want them to do? Here's what it will involve. If you can get a team to take a player you want to move, such as JVR or Voracek. Most likely it's in a trade of a similar player they want to move who also has a high cap hit. Or you have to include high value sweeteners to get a non contending team to take on the contract.

Isolating it down to being about losing one player, Niskanen, is simply not correct. The defensive issues are a team wide issue and not about one player.
I have a hard time understanding why some don't understand why Niskanen was not replaced. It just wasn't available. It's like going to grocery store for some diet coke and they're all out. Can't buy it if they don't have it.
- MJL

Or there are only 2 cases left and the price is astronomically high.

I don't think they have given up. As bad as this team has played, they are trying hard every single game, that much is certain. In the end, winning is contagious, but unfortunately so is losing. Another thing that has been consistent of this team, even before AV came in, is bad starts to hockey games, especially at home. No team can continue to come back from 2 or 3 goal deficits and win a hockey game. I guess we need to add this to the list also: Bad starts to hockey games! I feel bad for AV right now, he really looks beaten up.
- jd250

The casual Dzone is not trying hard, it’s extremely lazy.

Isolating it down to being about losing one player, Niskanen, is simply not correct. The defensive issues are a team wide issue and not about one player.
I have a hard time understanding why some don't understand why Niskanen was not replaced. It just wasn't available. It's like going to grocery store for some diet coke and they're all out. Can't buy it if they don't have it.
- MJL

I think you're downplaying it too much. Their defense pairings have been a mess because of this. They have different defense pairings every night trying to find someone to play with Provorov. I think they want it to be Myers, but then that breaks up the Sanheim/Myers pairing. Their entire defense is in complete disarray due to this and the Gus signing was akin to throwing poop against the wall and seeing if it sticks. Also, this team lost 3 of it's top 5 hitters from last year(Niskanen,Pitlick and Thompson)! So a soft team got even softer(did the GM watch the playoffs last year?). Hell, I'd take Thompson as the 4th line center right now over Patrick and let him figure his game out in the minors.

Or there are only 2 cases left and the price is astronomically high.
- jd250

Like Ekholm.

Discuss the league wide cap situation and how the Flyers accomplish what you want them to do? Here's what it will involve. If you can get a team to take a player you want to move, such as JVR or Voracek. Most likely it's in a trade of a similar player they want to move who also has a high cap hit. Or you have to include high value sweeteners to get a non contending team to take on the contract.
- MJL

The best bet for the Flyers is to make a deal with the Kraken to take Jake, and to cover 2.5M per season for the next 3 years of his deal. Jake at 5.75M per season might be palatable to them, and the Flyers gain significant cap space. The Flyers this year are already paying 2.5M in buyouts, so they will just continue this for 3 more seasons.

Like Ekholm.
- MJL

Hey, if you like diet Coke that much ...

I think you're downplaying it too much. Their defense pairings have been a mess because of this. They have different defense pairings every night trying to find someone to play with Provorov. I think they want it to be Myers, but then that breaks up the Sanheim/Myers pairing. Their entire defense is in complete disarray due to this and the Gus signing was akin to throwing poop against the wall and seeing if it sticks. Also, this team lost 3 of it's top 5 hitters from last year(Niskanen,Pitlick and Thompson)! So a soft team got even softer(did the GM watch the playoffs last year?). Hell, I'd take Thompson as the 4th line center right now over Patrick and let him figure his game out in the minors.
- Phillywhiteout

We've gone through this with Patrick, to get him to the minors you would have to waive him, and that means you lose him outright.

I think you're downplaying it too much. Their defense pairings have been a mess because of this. They have different defense pairings every night trying to find someone to play with Provorov. I think they want it to be Myers, but then that breaks up the Sanheim/Myers pairing. Their entire defense is in complete disarray due to this and the Gus signing was akin to throwing poop against the wall and seeing if it sticks. Also, this team lost 3 of it's top 5 hitters from last year(Niskanen,Pitlick and Thompson)! So a soft team got even softer(did the GM watch the playoffs last year?). Hell, I'd take Thompson as the 4th line center right now over Patrick and let him figure his game out in the minors.
- Phillywhiteout

It's hard enough to play defense in this league when a team plays well overall defensively. When there are constant coverage breakdowns, poor puck management and you spend a lot of time defending, well your defenseman are not going to look good. Especially a young defense. If Niskanen was still here, he would not solve these issues single handidly. Gustafsson was signed as an insurance policy to Gostisbehere to supply offense and to play on the PP.
You would never get Patrick to the minors. He would not clear waivers. The Flyers need be stronger on the puck to a man. Having Thompson or Pitlick doesn't change much.

The best bet for the Flyers is to make a deal with the Kraken to take Jake, and to cover 2.5M per season for the next 3 years of his deal. Jake at 5.75M per season might be palatable to them, and the Flyers gain significant cap space. The Flyers this year are already paying 2.5M in buyouts, so they will just continue this for 3 more seasons.
- jd250

I don't want to get into doing things like that. What are they going to pay the Kraken to do that?

It's hard enough to play defense in this league when a team plays well overall defensively. When there are constant coverage breakdowns, poor puck management and you spend a lot of time defending, well your defenseman are not going to look good. Especially a young defense. If Niskanen was still here, he would not solve these issues single handidly. Gustafsson was signed as an insurance policy to Gostisbehere to supply offense and to play on the PP.
You would never get Patrick to the minors. He would not clear waivers. The Flyers need be stronger on the puck to a man. Having Thompson or Pitlick doesn't change much.
- MJL

Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree cause we're getting nowhere here. My whole point was that the Flyers played much better against some of these teams with top stars last year cause they had a true #1 defense pairing and you're trying to tell me that he wouldn't make any difference. Well, then what's so different from last year to this year if that isn't a major factor? It's basically the same team with the exception of that and they look much worse than last year.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 3/13/21 vs. WSH
- bmeltzer

Season is on the line

Collapsing in March has happened before with this team

Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree cause we're getting nowhere here. My whole point was that the Flyers played much better against some of these teams with top stars last year cause they had a true #1 defense pairing and you're trying to tell me that he wouldn't make any difference. Well, then what's so different from last year to this year if that isn't a major factor? It's basically the same team with the exception of that and they look much worse than last year.
- Phillywhiteout

The Flyers right now are a fundamental mess defensively in their own zone. Tell me how having Niskanen would've changed how the Flyers forwards would've played on the back check on the Carlson goal? Just as one example. The biggest reason why they played better against some of the teams is that the Flyers were much better defensively as a team last season. Are you going to tell me that the biggest reason for that is not having Niskanen? If so then yes, we disagree.