Nope I think they're screwed after this year unless some prospects surprise them. That was more for the people who think they can be competitive the rest of Crosby and Malkin's careers.
- Tojo.

Gotcha. So you’re more in the rebuild camp?

Their D is most certainly not 6 deep. The 3rd pair guys played 5 and 8 mins last night. FOH. Tatar is 2nd on the team in hits per 60 in the playoffs. FOH.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm not sure if you follow hockey much but teams tend to play their top 4 a lot more minutes in a tight, elimination game. Playing them less minutes doesn't mean they are bad it means they are not as good as the guys in the top 4.

Hits are not goals... they aren't all equal. Tatar bumping into a guy and getting credit for a hit means nothing. Show me one highlight of one hit where Tatar has knocked a guy down.

You need to come to terms with the fact that Tatar is Thomas Vanek, a guy who can put up good stats during the regular season but useless in the playoffs.

Nope I think they're screwed after this year unless some prospects surprise them. That was more for the people who think they can be competitive the rest of Crosby and Malkin's careers.
- Tojo.

I think the flat cap and poor decisions by JR are really what killed their ability to stretch the window. Obviously not knowing what the cap would have been, but the Pens would have been in a better financial position to surround Sid and Geno with better players.

Gotcha. So you’re more in the rebuild camp?
- Feds91Stammer

If we're talking logically, I think this next season is it then you rebuild depending on the results. If there SMART moves are there to be made this off-season that keep them competitive and it seems financially realistic to keep that going for a few more years then do it.

The Pens window isn't 100% contingent on Sid and Geno being able to play at the 2016 levels. The Pens window IMO is contingent on Hextall surrounding them with the right players who can pick up the slack. If that's not possible, then you pack it up.

JR made many bad decisions that have affected this and if some can be undone I don't see any reason why the Pens can't keep going for another two or three years.

Yeah it's definitely not like Cole Caufield or Brayden Point are playing well. They are definitely getting knocked off their game due to their size.
- j.boyd919

Not even close to the point I was making.

But also, no one is saying small players are worthless in the playoffs. But you can't have 12 small forwards. Some balance is required to maximize their skill sets.

As an example....Bryan Rust is a really damn good player, but if Sid and Jake were playing with Chris Kunitz, I'd feel a lot better about their scoring ability in the playoffs.

Not even close to the point I was making.

But also, no one is saying small players are worthless in the playoffs. But you can't have 12 small forwards. Some balance is required to maximize their skill sets.

As an example....Bryan Rust is a really damn good player, but if Sid and Jake were playing with Chris Kunitz, I'd feel a lot better about their scoring ability in the playoffs.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Kunitz: 6'0 and 188 pounds
Rust: 5'11 and 192 pounds

Thats almost identical size.

Not even close to the point I was making.

But also, no one is saying small players are worthless in the playoffs. But you can't have 12 small forwards. Some balance is required to maximize their skill sets.

As an example....Bryan Rust is a really damn good player, but if Sid and Jake were playing with Chris Kunitz, I'd feel a lot better about their scoring ability in the playoffs.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Tamps is probably the most balanced team in the league in terms of skill, size, toughness and speed, yet at times they're getting pushed around by the Isles. It clearly comes down to how you play and at times the Islanders know how to play the style of game that can shut down any style of team.

So nobody can say that if the Pens had Coleman, Maroon and Schenn that they would have defeated the Islanders. Goaltending sunk the Pens, not missing the likes of the aforementioned players.

I'm not sure if you follow hockey much but teams tend to play their top 4 a lot more minutes in a tight, elimination game. Playing them less minutes doesn't mean they are bad it means they are not as good as the guys in the top 4.

Hits are not goals... they aren't all equal. Tatar bumping into a guy and getting credit for a hit means nothing. Show me one highlight of one hit where Tatar has knocked a guy down.

You need to come to terms with the fact that Tatar is Thomas Vanek, a guy who can put up good stats during the regular season but useless in the playoffs.
- MacPatty

The irony of someone questioning how much someone follows hockey and then comparing Tatar and Vanek.

Kunitz: 6'0 and 188 pounds
Rust: 5'11 and 192 pounds

Thats almost identical size.
- MattStrat

These guys want to build their roster like the chicks that say they won’t date dude unless they’re at least 6’ lol

Kunitz: 6'0 and 188 pounds
Rust: 5'11 and 192 pounds

Thats almost identical size.
- MattStrat

That's the whole point. Size isn't really the determining factor. It's a skill set. It's not like Horny was huge either. But guys who can effectively clog up the net front, bang in rebounds, and open up space for others is a missing ingredient IMO.

The irony of someone questioning how much someone follows hockey and then comparing Tatar and Vanek.
- Feds91Stammer

The Tatar and Vanek comparison is just lazy.

Tamps is probably the most balanced team in the league in terms of skill, size, toughness and speed, yet at times they're getting pushed around by the Isles. It clearly comes down to how you play and at times the Islanders know how to play the style of game that can shut down any style of team.

So nobody can say that if the Pens had Coleman, Maroon and Schenn that they would have defeated the Islanders. Goaltending sunk the Pens, not missing the likes of the aforementioned players.
- Rinosaur

I would agree... and that variance and randomness in hockey we always talk about is not reason to say Tampa is constructed poorly.

I will say that if we are going to be a team built on speed and skill...we sure as hell haven't been scoring a lot in the playoffs. Not just this year....looking at the past handful of playoff series, we're clearly not scoring enough.

The Tatar and Vanek comparison is just lazy.
- j.boyd919

Nah, JJ = Risto is lazy. Tatar = Vanek is accurate.

Nah, JJ = Risto is lazy. Tatar = Vanek is accurate.
- MacPatty

nah

That's the whole point. Size isn't really the determining factor. It's a skill set. It's not like Horny was huge either. But guys who can effectively clog up the net front, bang in rebounds, and open up space for others is a missing ingredient IMO.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Yeah I agree, I was going to add despite the similar size I'd rather Kunitz sandpaper style on the top line, which isnt a knock on Rust who I love and want to keep...

Nah, JJ = Risto is lazy. Tatar = Vanek is accurate.
- MacPatty

Yeah you’re definitely not familiar with hockey.

Nah, JJ = Risto is lazy. Tatar = Vanek is accurate.
- MacPatty

Lol