Would you really be happy getting pick #60 for a guy you took 7th-overall, tho? At least with NP the Flyers got a top-pair dman out of it.
- Tomahawk

They traded a worthless player and got a 2nd rd pick which they used well...they dont need defensemen and got what they needed from trade. Kings couldnt get a 4th rd pick now for Anderson.

Remember when Antonio Brown called the GM of the Raiders a Cracker. He was suspended right? Kicked out of the league?

Nice job with the cap, Chuckles. Usually you only want to be this close to the cap ceiling if you are a legit Cup contender, but apparently Fletcher never received that memo.
- BiggE

Nor has he ever built a cup contending team

Everything is "racist" these days. It is a joke.

The Democrats are tearing this country apart.
- hello it's me 2050

Yeah how dare those libtards try to cram making corporations like Amazon and Walmart Exxon etc pay ANY taxes to pay for infrastructure in America. How dare those wackos try to make Big Pharma negotiate the price of drugs for the elderly.
More tax breaks for the rich please, trickle down economics rules!!

I missed the days when Flyers fan booed Sarah Palin.

It seems now the fanbase has gone rapidly in the other direction.

Yeah how dare those libtards try to cram making corporations like Amazon and Walmart Exxon etc pay ANY taxes to pay for infrastructure in America. How dare those wackos try to make Big Pharma negotiate the price of drugs for the elderly.
More tax breaks for the rich please, trickle down economics rules!!
- konalover711

the trickle down effect....Well when they get taxed more where do you think they will make up that difference?

Besides wasn't talking about taxes.

the trickle down effect....Well when they get taxed more where do you think they will make up that difference?

Besides wasn't talking about taxes.
- hello it's me 2050

Tbone:

I'm all for them making billions and not paying a dime in taxes and I like that they get plenty of money in Government subsidies.
We are on they same page my friend.
I don't want one cent going to help the American working class in any form Government program. I want all $$$ to go to the Richest people and Corporations.

Ok, lets see if we can have a conversation about this without getting into you posted this and I posted that. Just my opinion, but the Flyers went through a 6 year period (from 2014-2020) where they hoarded draft picks and focused primarily (but not exclusively) on building up the farm system, so in 2020 and beyond they would have a solid stream of young players ready to break onto the big roster and make an impact. This was a good plan and one that is ideal for any sports franchise, but the reality is it has not come to fruition, at least not at a level that is needed to contend on a yearly basis. Now, I'm not going to go 12 rounds with you about blaming Hextall, and I think we agree that the Flyers have been very unlucky in terms of injuries to their younger players that have curtailed or in some cases, halted their development, but for whatever reason you can come up, the team is just not there and to be honest I'm not sure if and when they will get there. Our prospects just have not worked out enough for the Flyers to have that steady stream on players coming onto the team that you can augment with a solid veteran core. In hindsight, I agree with some on this forum that the hybrid approach Holmgren and Hextall took was the wrong approach, and the Flyers should have just bitten the bullet and started over in 2014, instead of signing players like Jake and JVR to long term deals for a team that was not ready to contend.

So what choice do we have? We can continue to draft and develop year after year until we develop a new young core of players, or we admit that the plan started in 2014 is behind and we need to catch up another way. I leaned towards the latter and thus was happy Fletcher went out and did what he did this off season. I was also hopeful players like Frost, Foerster, Allison, Attard and even O'Brien would be ready by now to come in and really give a jolt to this lineup, but alas they are not. Next year if you project what the cap space would be based on the team's makeup right now, Fletcher should have about the same amount of money to spend to continue to fill holes, but unlike this year, he should also have more prospects ready to play on the big team, including York, Frost, Zamula, Sandstrom and Foerster. This I hope means he will have less holes to fill, and can make more targeted FA signings or deals without giving up too much in return. Recall this off-season Fletcher did not give up one young prospect in his system, only a few draft picks and players that were either past their prime or had demonstrated they were not a fit moving forward.
- jd250

The Flyers need to be able to trade JVR without any salary coming back to give the Flyers some flexibility next year unless they're walking away from Ristolainen and Giroux.

We can debate the Hextall years and what they should've done all you want. When the Flyers reupped Voracek he was coming off of a year where he put up 81 points and was second in the league in assists I believe. Are you seriously going to suggest that they should've moved on from a player who appeared to be breaking out to being a star player? Talk about ultimate hindsight.

Giving up first round picks and a young valuable defenseman is indeed giving up part of the future.

Most importantly, you really didn't address the questions I asked. What are you waiting for? For just the Flyers to be a better team or for them to be a legit Cup contender? That's really the question. After all of the moves made and we still find ourselves to still be waiting. Are we better off or would the team be better off still waiting on picks and prospects with a clear cap picture? I say without a doubt the latter.

The season starts Friday. Time to give the team a chance and see what happens. They need to fight through the Hayes injury and see if he can come back and be effective.

The Flyers need to be able to trade JVR without any salary coming back to give the Flyers some flexibility next year unless they're walking away from Ristolainen and Giroux.

We can debate the Hextall years and what they should've done all you want. When the Flyers reupped Voracek he was coming off of a year where he put up 81 points and was second in the league in assists I believe. Are you seriously going to suggest that a player that they should've moved on from a player who appeared to be breaking out to being a star player? Talk about ultimate hindsight.

Giving up first round picks and a young valuable defenseman is indeed giving up part of the future.

Most importantly, you really didn't address the questions I asked. What are you waiting for? For just the Flyers to be a better team or for them to be a legit Cup contender? That's really the question. After all of the moves made and we still find ourselves to still be waiting. Are we better off or would the team be better off still waiting on picks and prospects with a clear cap picture? I say without a doubt the latter.

The season starts Friday. Time to give the team a chance and see what happens. They need to fight through the Hayes injury and see if he can come back and be effective.
- MJL

Sadly they are so far away from that all one can do is laugh. Laugh hard actually.

Yes, we are one of the oldest because our younger players are not ready yet. That is why Fletcher bought more time with the signings he made this off season. However if our younger players are not ready by next year, we are screwed! Well, maybe not screwed, but we will never get over the hump until we get that stream of younger players coming in.
- jd250

That's BS. Your not screwed if young players aren't ready. You're screwed in this league when you have older declining players with high cap hits and your team is capped out and you aren't good enough. That is when as a team, you are screwed.

That's BS. Your not screwed if young players aren't ready. You're screwed in this league when you have older declining players with high cap hits and your team is capped out and you aren't good enough. That is when as a team, you are screwed.
- MJL

See: late Chuck Fletcher tenure in MIN

Our division is still killer.
- Hextall271

it really is, besides Columbus there are really no easy games.

That's BS. Your not screwed if young players aren't ready. You're screwed in this league when you have older declining players with high cap hits and your team is capped out and you aren't good enough. That is when as a team, you are screwed.
- MJL

Ok, so by your definition, who are the older declining players with high caps hits on this team? I just posted all the Flyers players over 30 and what they have left on their contracts. 5 out of the 8 are on 1 year deals, JVR has 2 years left and its clear next year he won't be here, Atkinson has 4 years and Ellis has 6 years, both good players that are not declining! So tell me how in your mind this team is capped out and their "older declining" players are on long term deals and are not good enough??

If you want to be a contending team for not just one year, but for several as you have stated you want, the only way to do it in a hard cap world is to have a steady stream of young players coming up. How do you think Tampa will deal with basically losing their entire 3rd line this off season? I'll tell you how, they draft and develop well and they will have players come in and fill those roles!

Gruden is a complete fraud piece of poop. You cant even step back, look at situation on its own credentials and merits and give a critically thought out response. Youre as bad as the far leftists pushing their ridiculous agenda
- THE BLACK HAND

I’m not defending Gruden one way or the other. Maybe he’s a garbage human being. Idk. I’m pointing out these woke corporations live them some hypocrisy.
If you can’t understand the big picture then that’s to bad.

Ok, so by your definition, who are the older declining players with high caps hits on this team? I just posted all the Flyers players over 30 and what they have left on their contracts. 5 out of the 8 are on 1 year deals, JVR has 2 years left and its clear next year he won't be here, Atkinson has 4 years and Ellis has 6 years, both good players that are not declining! So tell me how in your mind this team is capped out and their "older declining" players are on long term deals and are not good enough??

If you want to be a contending team for not just one year, but for several as you have stated you want, the only way to do it in a hard cap world is to have a steady stream of young players coming up. How do you think Tampa will deal with basically losing their entire 3rd line this off season? I'll tell you how, they draft and develop well and they will have players come in and fill those roles!
- jd250

It does not seem as though you are able to follow the conversation.

The potential players for that designation are Giroux, Couturier, Ellis, Ristolainen and Atkinson.

You state that Ellis and Atkinson are not declining as if it is a fact.


In the first place, Tampa didn't go out and try and trade and sign their way to contention. Start with that revelation.

Unique? No, but it was unnecessary. If Buffalo was unwilling to retain cash on Risto, then walk away. They were already overpaying for him.
- BiggE

The Ristolainen deal was not the best long term deal in my mind. I like that they have him on the roster but not sure how this one turns out. He is a talented player and brings a much need element. But lots of question marks.

But I stand by my comments that 18 other teams are in similar cap situations. Some better some not. But there aren’t 20 teams that are going to make the cup finals.

Usually there are only 8-10 teams jacked up to the cap ceiling at this point (more as you get past the trade deadline) 5 years ago. But the cap situations has changed. Just is how it is now.

The Flyers need to be able to trade JVR without any salary coming back to give the Flyers some flexibility next year unless they're walking away from Ristolainen and Giroux.

We can debate the Hextall years and what they should've done all you want. When the Flyers reupped Voracek he was coming off of a year where he put up 81 points and was second in the league in assists I believe. Are you seriously going to suggest that they should've moved on from a player who appeared to be breaking out to being a star player? Talk about ultimate hindsight.

Giving up first round picks and a young valuable defenseman is indeed giving up part of the future.

Most importantly, you really didn't address the questions I asked. What are you waiting for? For just the Flyers to be a better team or for them to be a legit Cup contender? That's really the question. After all of the moves made and we still find ourselves to still be waiting. Are we better off or would the team be better off still waiting on picks and prospects with a clear cap picture? I say without a doubt the latter.

The season starts Friday. Time to give the team a chance and see what happens. They need to fight through the Hayes injury and see if he can come back and be effective.
- MJL

My only point regarding the Jake contract was not meant to be a slight against Jake, it was revisiting the question, what was Hextall's plan to rebuild this franchise. Signing Jake, and then later JVR would have made more sense if this team was ready to contend during their prime years, but clearly they were not. Hextall hires a college coach with no experience, wouldn't give up 1 draft pick to make a good hockey trade, and made several questionable, albeit, small FA signings in the process. In hindsight, if the goal was always to build a contender through the draft, he might have been better off blowing it up and starting over, that was my only point. You don't think he could have traded Jake at the deadline and got several good prospects in return?

I want what you want, for the Flyers to be a legit contender and win not just one, not just two, but multiple cups! I want the Flyers to become the NE Patriots of Hockey. However the prospects in the system are just not there, its plain and simple. The holes were gaping on this team and Fletcher had to do something now to at least get us on the road to contention, which I believe he has. He gave up Patrick and Myers, two players with potential for a sure thing with cost certainty in Ellis, that was a good hockey trade! He gave up a number 1 pick and a bottom pairing defenseman for a legit top 4 defender who is physical; that is a good hockey trade. He traded a pass-first forward for a shoot-first forward, which this team desperately needed; that was a good hockey trade. No one said this was enough, but it was a good start.

It does not seem as though you are able to follow the conversation.

The potential players for that designation are Giroux, Couturier, Ellis, Ristolainen and Atkinson.

You state that Ellis and Atkinson are not declining as if it is a fact.


In the first place, Tampa didn't go out and try and trade and sign their way to contention. Start with that revelation.
- MJL

Regarding Tampa, I know, they actually drafted players that can play, you know, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasey, Cirelli and Point! When you do this well in the draft, it makes things a heck of a lot easier to build around. The Flyers did not draft this well, and thus they are not in the same position.

which NHL coach will get Grudened

it really is, besides Columbus there are really no easy games.
- jd250

Former Flyers love eating the Flyers' lunch.

Regarding Tampa, I know, they actually drafted players that can play, you know, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasey, Cirelli and Point! When you do this well in the draft, it makes things a heck of a lot easier to build around. The Flyers did not draft this well, and thus they are not in the same position.
- jd250

They have also signed ufa's and made plenty of trades over the years to rework the supporting cast.

no team in the last 20 years had a team full of players they drafted and developed win the cup. The best team identify the keepers and work what they can to improve every year.

Boston has traded many young high draft picks over the years and has stayed competitive. Pitts has traded their first round pick year after year and has been competitive due to their core. washington traded players to rework the cast around ovie and backstrom. Tampa has done the same over the years.

he just wants to argue...

Regarding Tampa, I know, they actually drafted players that can play, you know, Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasey, Cirelli and Point! When you do this well in the draft, it makes things a heck of a lot easier to build around. The Flyers did not draft this well, and thus they are not in the same position.
- jd250

A first and second overall pick in there too, ranking doesn’t work.

My season prediction philly record will be
36-36-10 82 points and finish 7th in metro.


Middling

That's BS. Your not screwed if young players aren't ready. You're screwed in this league when you have older declining players with high cap hits and your team is capped out and you aren't good enough. That is when as a team, you are screwed.
- MJL

Define old? I mean coots for 9 more years turns bad when?

My season prediction philly record will be
36-36-10 82 points and finish 7th in metro.


Middling
- Stayin alive

i've been waiting all offseason for your predictions. thank god hockey is back baby.