Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/6/21 @ WSH; Phantoms @ Charlotte (Pt. 1)

The Flyers D is just woefully thin without Ellis, they are going to have a very hard time beating anyone until he gets back. Seeler tries hard, but he's an AHL player. Yandle is a pp specialist, who, for some inexplicable reason they have taken off the top pp unit. Makes no sense since it's the only thing he does well; he's a serious liability in the D zone. Ristolainen is the crappy player that he's been his whole career and is another guy who should be seeing only limited minutes in a 3rd pairing role. Braun is an ok player but they are asking way too much of him and it's going to burn them eventually. He's fine as a 4/5 kind of guy, but it's simply not fair to the player to ask any more of him.

So basically that leaves 2 guys who can function in the top 4 of a good team. Provorov, while not a franchise #1, is at least a legit top pairing guy. Sanheim has flaws, but, when he's on his game, he's a solid top 4 player.

Right now, it's just not enough. And, once you add Brassard as a 2nd line C to the mix along with Nate's black hole of possession on L4 it's not a pretty picture.

The Flyers D is just woefully thin without Ellis, they are going to have a very hard time beating anyone until he gets back. Seeler tries hard, but he's an AHL player. Yandle is a pp specialist, who, for some inexplicable reason they have taken off the top pp unit. Makes no sense since it's the only thing he does well; he's a serious liability in the D zone. Ristolainen is the crappy player that he's been his whole career and is another guy who should be seeing only limited minutes in a 3rd pairing role. Braun is an ok player but they are asking way too much of him and it's going to burn them eventually. He's fine as a 4/5 kind of guy, but it's simply not fair to the player to ask any more of him.

So basically that leaves 2 guys who can function in the top 4 of a good team. Provorov, while not a franchise #1, is at least a legit top pairing guy. Sanheim has flaws, but, when he's on his game, he's a solid top 4 player.

Right now, it's just not enough. And, once you add Brassard as a 2nd line C to the mix along with Nate's black hole of possession on L4 it's not a pretty picture.
- BiggE

The team that has been put on the ice the last few games is really no better than last year's team. They have won a few games even though they shouldn't have, and have been thoroughly outplayed in almost every game. I hope Ellis and Hayes are magic elixirs, but as Eddie Vedder once said, hope doesn't get much applause.

The Flyers D is just woefully thin without Ellis, they are going to have a very hard time beating anyone until he gets back. Seeler tries hard, but he's an AHL player. Yandle is a pp specialist, who, for some inexplicable reason they have taken off the top pp unit. Makes no sense since it's the only thing he does well; he's a serious liability in the D zone. Ristolainen is the crappy player that he's been his whole career and is another guy who should be seeing only limited minutes in a 3rd pairing role. Braun is an ok player but they are asking way too much of him and it's going to burn them eventually. He's fine as a 4/5 kind of guy, but it's simply not fair to the player to ask any more of him.

So basically that leaves 2 guys who can function in the top 4 of a good team. Provorov, while not a franchise #1, is at least a legit top pairing guy. Sanheim has flaws, but, when he's on his game, he's a solid top 4 player.

Right now, it's just not enough. And, once you add Brassard as a 2nd line C to the mix along with Nate's black hole of possession on L4 it's not a pretty picture.
- BiggE

Yeah pretty much. As much as Sanheim should be scratched a game or two, even Ristolainen for that matter, whom do you replace them with?

Offense needs some juggling for sure. I really anticipate a tweak or two shortly.

Yeah pretty much. As much as Sanheim should be scratched a game or two, even Ristolainen for that matter, whom do you replace them with?

Offense needs some juggling for sure. I really anticipate a tweak or two shortly.
- Pelle31Forever

Looks like Jones starting tonight.

The Flyers D is just woefully thin without Ellis, they are going to have a very hard time beating anyone until he gets back. Seeler tries hard, but he's an AHL player. Yandle is a pp specialist, who, for some inexplicable reason they have taken off the top pp unit. Makes no sense since it's the only thing he does well; he's a serious liability in the D zone. Ristolainen is the crappy player that he's been his whole career and is another guy who should be seeing only limited minutes in a 3rd pairing role. Braun is an ok player but they are asking way too much of him and it's going to burn them eventually. He's fine as a 4/5 kind of guy, but it's simply not fair to the player to ask any more of him.

So basically that leaves 2 guys who can function in the top 4 of a good team. Provorov, while not a franchise #1, is at least a legit top pairing guy. Sanheim has flaws, but, when he's on his game, he's a solid top 4 player.

Right now, it's just not enough. And, once you add Brassard as a 2nd line C to the mix along with Nate's black hole of possession on L4 it's not a pretty picture.
- BiggE

Ristolainen is not -- and hasn't been as a Flyer -- "crappy". It's been a mixed bag so far. Some good, some not-so-good. Same thing with Sanheim. Thing is, the Flyers need them to have a good night on the SAME night and not one going and the other struggling. There's only been one game so far where they've both been on.

Other parts I agree with.

The Flyers D is just woefully thin without Ellis, they are going to have a very hard time beating anyone until he gets back. Seeler tries hard, but he's an AHL player. Yandle is a pp specialist, who, for some inexplicable reason they have taken off the top pp unit. Makes no sense since it's the only thing he does well; he's a serious liability in the D zone. Ristolainen is the crappy player that he's been his whole career and is another guy who should be seeing only limited minutes in a 3rd pairing role. Braun is an ok player but they are asking way too much of him and it's going to burn them eventually. He's fine as a 4/5 kind of guy, but it's simply not fair to the player to ask any more of him.

So basically that leaves 2 guys who can function in the top 4 of a good team. Provorov, while not a franchise #1, is at least a legit top pairing guy. Sanheim has flaws, but, when he's on his game, he's a solid top 4 player.

Right now, it's just not enough. And, once you add Brassard as a 2nd line C to the mix along with Nate's black hole of possession on L4 it's not a pretty picture.
- BiggE

Yandle has actually been better defensively than I thought he would be. Like you, I don't understand not playing him on the top PP unit. When Ellis comes back, I play Braun with Sanheim and Ristolainen with Yandle on the 3rd pair.

Free Samu as he belongs in juniors.

Sanheim has been overrated by flyers fans. At some point cant keep blaming his partner.

Ristolainen is not -- and hasn't been as a Flyer -- "crappy". It's been a mixed bag so far. Some good, some not-so-good. Same thing with Sanheim. Thing is, the Flyers need them to have a good night on the SAME night and not one going and the other struggling. There's only been one game so far where they've both been on.

Other parts I agree with.
- bmeltzer

Call Risto whatever you want but he’s seriously lacking in the hockey sense dept and he’s not remotely worth the cost they paid to acquire him or the extension that I’m praying Fletcher doesn’t sign him to.

Ristolainen is not -- and hasn't been as a Flyer -- "crappy". It's been a mixed bag so far. Some good, some not-so-good. Same thing with Sanheim. Thing is, the Flyers need them to have a good night on the SAME night and not one going and the other struggling. There's only been one game so far where they've both been on.

Other parts I agree with.
- bmeltzer

Bill, I have the utmost respect for you but on this one, I can't agree with you. Ristolainen has had some spotty good play but otherwise shows a lack of positioning, hockey sense. Is terrible in transition. Frequently takes himself out of the play to hit. Loses coverage and generally makes no impact on controlling play or winning the game. He has been exactly as advertised to this point. Extremely mediocre. The data both from this year and his past completely support that.
While Sanheim has not played well overall, at least we know from the past that he has the ability to play a solid 2 way game.

The team that has been put on the ice the last few games is really no better than last year's team. They have won a few games even though they shouldn't have, and have been thoroughly outplayed in almost every game. I hope Ellis and Hayes are magic elixirs, but as Eddie Vedder once said, hope doesn't get much applause.
- corduroy

Pens fan here and I'm not here to rub salt, I promise. We have a philly troll posting on our board today, so I was curious to see what he says here, but I saw this comment and got to thinking. When I saw the moves made before this season it really just felt like lateral-ish moves as a whole.

The Ellis move was maybe the only true upgrade to the lineup. The Atkinson trade seemed more of a "shake up the locker room" type of deal. Risto was the worst of the deals; he's really just Jack Johnson 2.0 with a little more snarl. It's still VERY early in the season and with so many new faces it will take time to see if they gel and figure out where people fit in the lineup, but truly being non-bias if you'll believe me as a Pens fan, I really didn't expect a very different flyers team.

Call Risto whatever you want but he’s seriously lacking in the hockey sense dept and he’s not remotely worth the cost they paid to acquire him or the extension that I’m praying Fletcher doesn’t sign him to.
- BiggE

I've been pledging gifts to the hockey gods that Fletcher has some self awareness and is able to admit his mistake and not compound it by re-signing him.

Call Risto whatever you want but he’s seriously lacking in the hockey sense dept and he’s not remotely worth the cost they paid to acquire him or the extension that I’m praying Fletcher doesn’t sign him to.
- BiggE

He has average hockey sense, which is why he's not an upper-echelon D man despite all his physical skills. But he brings things the Flyers sorely lacked. He was an absolute warrior in the Edmonton win and, the last couple games, has started to show some of his offensive game, too.

He'll never be everyone's cup of tea. But big RH defensemen who can skate, hit, block shots and provide some offense too if deployed as such aren't easy to find. It's why so many teams -- all playoff teams last season, by the way -- were willing to meet the Bufffalo demand of a first-round pick as the starting point in trade offers.

Ristolainen doesn't always take good routes or play his angles right. He lacks situational awareness and tends to be overaggressive and prone to getting fooled when an attacker dekes. He also staples opponents, gets under their skin and can make some good things happen up ice.

When Ellis is back in the lineup -- and hopefully stays there -- I think Ristolainen should be fine. He hasn't been bad so far.

He has average hockey sense, which is why he's not an upper-echelon D man despite all his physical skills. But he brings things the Flyers sorely lacked. He was an absolute warrior in the Edmonton win and, the last couple games, has started to show some of his offensive game, too.

He'll never be everyone's cup of tea. But big RH defensemen who can skate, hit, block shots and provide some offense too if deployed as such aren't easy to find. It's why so many teams -- all playoff teams last season, by the way -- were willing to meet the Bufffalo demand of a first-round pick as the starting point in trade offers.

Ristolainen doesn't always take good routes or play his angles right. He lacks situational awareness and tends to be overaggressive and prone to getting fooled when an attacker dekes. He also staples opponents, gets under their skin and can make some good things happen up ice.

When Ellis is back in the lineup -- and hopefully stays there -- I think Ristolainen should be fine. He hasn't been bad so far.
- bmeltzer

With all do respect, these were very similar things said about Jack Johnson over the course of his career and his early offensive production made people glaze over the glaring issues that eventually came to light.

Flyers fans will love when he lays a big hit on Sid or Geno and while Risto may battle on the ice, he's still a negative impact at the end of the day. He may help with retribution, but he doesn't help with wins.

While I'm not someone who relies 100% on advanced metrics, they are overwhelmingly TERRIBLE for Risto. They literally show the team is worse when he's on the ice.

He has average hockey sense, which is why he's not an upper-echelon D man despite all his physical skills. But he brings things the Flyers sorely lacked. He was an absolute warrior in the Edmonton win and, the last couple games, has started to show some of his offensive game, too.

He'll never be everyone's cup of tea. But big RH defensemen who can skate, hit, block shots and provide some offense too if deployed as such aren't easy to find. It's why so many teams -- all playoff teams last season, by the way -- were willing to meet the Bufffalo demand of a first-round pick as the starting point in trade offers.

Ristolainen doesn't always take good routes or play his angles right. He lacks situational awareness and tends to be overaggressive and prone to getting fooled when an attacker dekes. He also staples opponents, gets under their skin and can make some good things happen up ice.

When Ellis is back in the lineup -- and hopefully stays there -- I think Ristolainen should be fine. He hasn't been bad so far.
- bmeltzer

When you give up a 1st, 2nd and roster player for a player in the last year of his contract and has to be re-signed. You're not looking for a player who should be fine or hasn't been bad. Which I would disagree with. He has been bad. At his best he's mediocre. He had a good shot block total and hits in the Edmonton game because he was defending the entire game. I don't care about a player who plays hard and hits in his own end. I want defenseman who end plays quickly and moves it out quickly and efficiently and then joins in the attack. A player who helps us play with the puck more. Who actually helps the team win.

NHL GM's fall in love with the raw skills. They think they can "fix" him and coach him up. They can't. In non-hockey vernacular, Ristolainen is a dumb player. Always has been. He's 27. He's not changing.

When you give up a 1st, 2nd and roster player for a player in the last year of his contract and has to be re-signed. You're not looking for a player who should be fine or hasn't been bad. Which I would disagree with. He has been bad. At his best he's mediocre. He had a good shot block total and hits in the Edmonton game because he was defending the entire game. I don't care about a player who plays hard and hits in his own end. I want defenseman who end plays quickly and moves it out quickly and efficiently and then joins in the attack. A player who helps us play with the puck more.

NHL GM's fall in love with the raw skills. They think they can "fix" him and coach him up. They can't. In non-hockey vernacular, Ristolainen is a dumb player. Always has been. He's 27. He's not changing.
- MJL

Who do you believe fits what you are looking for and could have been traded for?

Who do you believe fits what you are looking for and could have been traded for?
- VilleLeinoShow

Why do people ask questions like this? There isn't a single fan who can answer what other player could've been traded for. If you want to join the conversation, then make an actual point.

Why do people ask questions like this? There isn't a single fan who can answer what other player could've been traded for. If you want to join the conversation, then make an actual point.
- MJL

Flyers were the softest team defensively last season and it was painful to watch. We needed a big right hand D man to step in and play top 4 minutes for us NOW which also lets us move Braun back onto a spot where he actually belongs. It was a good trade for our team not great. Our team is better this season than last. Name some top end D men who have been traded the last few years? Most of the big names have turned out to be bust moves.

Our D was ruining Harts career if it wasn't addressed. We finally had a good young goalie to believe in and we were ruining him like normal. I would much rather have Risto than those draft picks at this point.

Flyers were the softest team defensively last season and it was painful to watch. We needed a big right hand D man to step in and play top 4 minutes for us NOW which also lets us move Braun back onto a spot where he actually belongs. It was a good trade for our team not great. Our team is better this season than last. Name some top end D men who have been traded the last few years? Most of the big names have turned out to be bust moves.
- VilleLeinoShow

It was an awful trade and a player they should cut their loses and walk away from. If they're not in the playoff hunt around the deadline, they should trade him and recoup whatever they can. Adding a player who is suspect defensively and positionally and lacks hockey sense does not help just because he is a hitter. This team would've been better without Ristolainen. That's was a very low bar to get over. Ristolainen is one name to add to the bust list.

Our D was ruining Harts career if it wasn't addressed. We finally had a good young goalie to believe in and we were ruining him like normal. I would much rather have Risto than those draft picks at this point.
- VilleLeinoShow

So adding Risolainen is going to save Hart's career? That's the definition of a reach.

It was an awful trade and a player they should cut their loses and walk away from. If they're not in the playoff hunt around the deadline, they should trade him and recoup whatever they can. Adding a player who is suspect defensively and positionally and lacks hockey sense does not help just because he is a hitter. This team would've been better without Ristolainen. That's was a very low bar to get over. Ristolainen is one name to add to the bust list.
- MJL

cool story bro

A little slow but just noticing Bill's color coded posts. White jersey on away game days. Orange at home. Black off day? Am I just making that up? Sorry it's taken me this long to notice.

If true, nice touch Bill.

cool story bro
- VilleLeinoShow

That's what I thought. Best you can do. Should've known from your first post.