All I know is this, that Elliott Friedman report that stated G only gave the Flyers 3 teams to be traded to better be false, or the Flyers are royally screwed and will get pennies on the dollar for G. I already posted that St. Louis really has no need for him, and Colorado would consider him a luxury, so that means you have Minnesota and who else? You need to least 3 teams that absolutely want G for this to work. The fact that there were many teams, I was told up to 12 NHL clubs, scouting the Flyers the other night I hope means G's list is much broader.

And please take all this Russia ... Russia ... Russia talk over to CNN, or Fox News, or whatever your favorite news site is, and let us Flyers fans talk hockey and insult each other like civilized adults!
- jd250

I'm just gonna throw this out there because I feel like no one on this board is mentally prepared for it, but I could definitely see Giroux being a Keith Tkachuck situation where the Flyers trade him at the deadline and then bring him back this summer.

Don't feel like many have talked about this possibility.

Can we please keep this nonsense off of Hockeybuzz. It is inappropriate.
- MJL

sad. Go elsewhere if you find ii inapropriate.

How many 30 goal 70 point 2nd line centers are there in the NHL?
- MJL

y
you tell me how many?

Yeah because those two guys, for the last time, were cheaper. You have been saying the same thing as me this entire time. The logic is just beyond you for whatever reason. And yes, I sent the Flyers PROJECTED cap space because it reflects the teams ACTUAL cap situation, not a number that includes LTIR wiggle room.

If everyone on this team is healthy, the Flyers barely had wiggle room to make basic roster moves. This is just math and it's not hard. Without NAK here, the Flyers have a little more cap space after replacing his roster spot with a cheaper player. Do you deny this simple fact?

Yesterday, you felt the need to point out the Flyers had 15 forwards on their roster. They now have 14 as of this morning and just barely over $4mil in cap space with LTIR. If NAK was still here and someone like MacEwen or Willman was on the Phantoms, that number would obviously be below $4mil.

The $275k you get from trading NAK could be the difference maker as to whether Chuck can pull off a trade. It could be the difference in space the Flyers need to take certain contracts back in a potential trade. Your argument is basically "its not a difference maker because the Flyers can just use LTIR". It's not even close to being that simple.

NAK also had the most expensive salary of any of the fringe roster players in actual dollars this season, thus making him EXPENSIVE (the very first word I used in this entire argument) and EXPENDABLE.

Do yourself a favor and check the dates Hayes first came off LTIR, NAK being waived, and the last game Ryan Ellis played. Then ask yourself why Hayes hasn't been put back on LTIR yet despite having had multiple surgeries already this season and clearly not being close to playing.

I can tell you why! Its because LTIR CAP SPACE ISN'T REAL CAP SPACE.

Thanks for playing.
- mochoson

You are a dope if you think NAK was waived for cap reasons. He was waived because they liked brown nate zac better. That is it. No other reason.

Just like the dumb GM waived Friedman over Prosser. It was a hockey decision.

All I know is this, that Elliott Friedman report that stated G only gave the Flyers 3 teams to be traded to better be false, or the Flyers are royally screwed and will get pennies on the dollar for G. I already posted that St. Louis really has no need for him, and Colorado would consider him a luxury, so that means you have Minnesota and who else? You need to least 3 teams that absolutely want G for this to work. The fact that there were many teams, I was told up to 12 NHL clubs, scouting the Flyers the other night I hope means G's list is much broader.

And please take all this Russia ... Russia ... Russia talk over to CNN, or Fox News, or whatever your favorite news site is, and let us Flyers fans talk hockey and insult each other like civilized adults!
- jd250

It doesnt matter how many teams he "approves" a trade too. CC will have a preference. That is where he will be traded to if he is traded. They will let him call the shots.

Yeah because those two guys, for the last time, were cheaper. You have been saying the same thing as me this entire time. The logic is just beyond you for whatever reason. And yes, I sent the Flyers PROJECTED cap space because it reflects the teams ACTUAL cap situation, not a number that includes LTIR wiggle room.



- mochoson

The above shows a complete lack of understanding of how the cap works. You don't understand what the difference is between being under the upper limit and being cap compliant. They are not the same things. You are wrong in stating that it reflects their ACTUAL cap situations. It is clear that you have no clue about that. As I said earlier, there is plenty of information out there on the cap. I would recommend that you educate yourself. You keep making this absurd claim that the Flyers waived Aube-Kubel to save 200K on the cap in November. It's actually comical.

If everyone on this team is healthy, the Flyers barely had wiggle room to make basic roster moves. This is just math and it's not hard. Without NAK here, the Flyers have a little more cap space after replacing his roster spot with a cheaper player. Do you deny this simple fact?


- mochoson

This is incorrect. Your posts show that you don't understand the math.

Yesterday, you felt the need to point out the Flyers had 15 forwards on their roster. They now have 14 as of this morning and just barely over $4mil in cap space with LTIR. If NAK was still here and someone like MacEwen or Willman was on the Phantoms, that number would obviously be below $4mil.


- mochoson

4M is a big number at this point in the year.

The $275k you get from trading NAK could be the difference maker as to whether Chuck can pull off a trade. It could be the difference in space the Flyers need to take certain contracts back in a potential trade. Your argument is basically "its not a difference maker because the Flyers can just use LTIR". It's not even close to being that simple.


- mochoson

LOL. No my argument is based on knowledge of the cap. Which you don't have.

NAK also had the most expensive salary of any of the fringe roster players in actual dollars this season, thus making him EXPENSIVE (the very first word I used in this entire argument) and EXPENDABLE.


- mochoson

A player making Aube-Kubel's cap hit is not expensive by any measure in the NHL. Nor does it make him expendable.

Do yourself a favor and check the dates Hayes first came off LTIR, NAK being waived, and the last game Ryan Ellis played. Then ask yourself why Hayes hasn't been put back on LTIR yet despite having had multiple surgeries already this season and clearly not being close to playing.

I can tell you why! Its because LTIR CAP SPACE ISN'T REAL CAP SPACE.

Thanks for playing.
- mochoson

You're embarrassing yourself here. The statement that LTIR cap space isn't real cap space is embarrassingly stupid. You don't understand LTIR. You disqualified yourself with that statement of having any knowledge of how the cap works. Hayes is not on LTIR simply because he doesn't need to be. A player can retroactively be placed on LTIR. The Flyers can do this at any time with Hayes and increase their available cap space. The Flyers have a bunch of available cap space already.

The bottom line is that the Flyers chose to keep Brown and McEwen over Aube-Kubel and mistakenly believed that Aube-Kubel would clear waivers. They were wrong and they chose to keep less talented players over Aube-Kubel. It had zero to do with cap space, maximizing LTIR. It was a roster limit issue.

All I know is this, that Elliott Friedman report that stated G only gave the Flyers 3 teams to be traded to better be false, or the Flyers are royally screwed and will get pennies on the dollar for G. I already posted that St. Louis really has no need for him, and Colorado would consider him a luxury, so that means you have Minnesota and who else? You need to least 3 teams that absolutely want G for this to work. The fact that there were many teams, I was told up to 12 NHL clubs, scouting the Flyers the other night I hope means G's list is much broader.

And please take all this Russia ... Russia ... Russia talk over to CNN, or Fox News, or whatever your favorite news site is, and let us Flyers fans talk hockey and insult each other like civilized adults!
- jd250

Seriously, that one dude should be banned permanently!! Every time he comes on here he turns it into some political rant and he starts spewing BS. That dude is a first rate clown and needs to be shown the door! Trust me, if I had the power he'd be long gone. I for one hate politics and I don't come to a hockey thread to read about other's opinions on it cause I don't give a rat's ass about it!!! Now back to your regularly scheduled programming about how bad the Flyers are and how they managed to lose the last two winnable games. Thanks!!

You are a dope if you think NAK was waived for cap reasons. He was waived because they liked brown nate zac better. That is it. No other reason.

Just like the dumb GM waived Friedman over Prosser. It was a hockey decision.
- hello it's me 2050

Not purely "cap" reasons technically because as I said, NAK was the most expensive this season in actual dollars of the players in the 11-14 forward range on the depth chart.

I guess I can't technically argue with the rest because once they got MacEwen it probably did come down to keeping him or NAK which again, whether you want to believe it played into the decision or not, they kept the cheaper player.

I'm fine with being a dope either way

The bottom line is that the Flyers chose to keep Brown and McEwen over Aube-Kubel and mistakenly believed that Aube-Kubel would clear waivers. They were wrong and they chose to keep less talented players over Aube-Kubel. It had zero to do with cap space, maximizing LTIR. It was a roster limit issue.
- MJL

NAK makes more money than MacEwen on cap and actual dollars. Fact.

The Flyers didn't have cap space and started the season with an abysmal cap situation overall when everyone was healthy. Fact.

tl;dr the rest because I started reading it and it was you're usual drivel that I don't care for.

Not purely "cap" reasons technically because as I said, NAK was the most expensive this season in actual dollars of the players in the 11-14 forward range on the depth chart.

I guess I can't technically argue with the rest because once they got MacEwen it probably did come down to keeping him or NAK which again, whether you want to believe it played into the decision or not, they kept the cheaper player.

I'm fine with being a dope either way
- mochoson

he was waived because they liked other players more. No other reason.

You think the avs think he is expensive?

NAK makes more money than MacEwen on cap and actual dollars. Fact.

The Flyers didn't have cap space and started the season with an abysmal cap situation overall when everyone was healthy. Fact.

tl;dr the rest because I started reading it and it was you're usual drivel that I don't care for.
- mochoson

You are completely wrong on all levels. You keep hanging on the fact that Aube-Kubel has a higher cap hit. You stated that the Flyers have 4K of cap space. You were unaware of the Flyers cap situation now, just as you were back then.

You posted that LITR cap space is not real cap space and claim that what I posted was drivel.


This is done.

I'm just gonna throw this out there because I feel like no one on this board is mentally prepared for it, but I could definitely see Giroux being a Keith Tkachuck situation where the Flyers trade him at the deadline and then bring him back this summer.

Don't feel like many have talked about this possibility.
- mochoson

I agree with Bill Meltzer. If Giroux was going to do that, he would re-sign with the Flyers now.

You are completely wrong on all levels. You keep hanging on the fact that Aube-Kubel has a higher cap hit. You stated that the Flyers have 4K of cap space. You were unaware of the Flyers cap situation now, just as you were back then.

You posted that LITR cap space is not real cap space and claim that what I posted was drivel.


This is done.
- MJL

1. You don't know how to include a response without ad hominem's.

2. NAK does have a higher cap hit and I'm "hanging onto it" because it's literally been my point this time, so obviously.

3. I gave the projected cap space initially because it was more appropriate for the point I've been trying to make this entire time. Do you disagree that the projected cap space isn't the teams end of season cap space based off of the teams daily average cap space value of current roster?

4. I'm very aware of the Flyers cap situation, which is poor. They have little money as of this writing to fill the gaping holes in talent on this team. They have two players next year making over $7 million dollars who aren't $7 million dollar players. JVR and Hayes are two huge anchors on the Flyers current cap. Lindblom, TK and Provorov have all under performed at times based off their current cap hits. When you're not getting on ice production that matches what you're paying some of your players, that means your money is being poorly spent. So no, the Flyer's cap situation isn't great at the moment.

5. LTIR cap space isn't "real cap space" based off of the overall point I'm trying to make about why this team is making the decisions they're making. It's not real cap space in the sense that it's TEMPORARY. NAK has RFA status and I guarantee you the Flyers already looked at what his potential QO would be, decided long term he's not worth keeping and that if he could be traded or needed to be waived at some point this season, they would just do it. I can't technically argue with the rest because NAK's roster status was in jeopardy the moment they acquired MacEwen.

This argument has come down to whether the Flyers thought NAK would make it through waivers or not. My argument essentially is they not only assumed there was a good chance he was claimed, but they probably welcomed it. NAK being gone has opened up opportunities for players like Ratcliffe, who even this inept management group knows you have to eventually give NHL ice time to if you want to truly evaluate them.

I agree with Bill Meltzer. If Giroux was going to do that, he would re-sign with the Flyers now.
- MJL

The Flyers can't resign Giroux even if they wanted to because they are already committing $7mil salaries to two players who likely won't provide $7mil in value and another $6mil question mark in Ellis.

Even considering a home town discount, Giroux is still going to need to be paid based off how good a player he still is on the ice. The Flyers simply can't offer him those dollars at the moment. They need time to make other moves (hopefully creating space) and to evaluate other players like Hayes and Ellis (what are chances one or both are still on team next season, if they are here will they start on LTIR, etc).

I'd argue almost the exact opposite. Giroux going to a contender is not only good for him (opportunity to win cup and further showcase himself for FA playing in a better situation) but it's good for the Flyers because we'll obviously get assets for him.

This is pretty much the only situation I think someone like Clarke and/or Homer can still come in handy. They've known Giroux his entire career. You can't find a more meaningful person(s) to pull Giroux aside and says "trust me, we can bring you back and pay you (x) number, we just need time".

I honestly hope this is what's happening. I think losing Giroux is a huge hole that can't be filled overnight and I think he's still performing more than well enough to justify him remaining our captain and focal points of this team.

1. You don't know how to include a response without ad hominem's.

2. NAK does have a higher cap hit and I'm "hanging onto it" because it's literally been my point this time, so obviously.


- mochoson

That has never been disputed. No, the point that you tried to make is that the Flyers didn't make a choice on who to waive but that they needed to because of Aube-Kubel's slightly higher cap hit. That is simply not true. The Flyers are the time valued McEwen and Brown more and made a choice. They were not forced to waive Aube-Kubel

3. I gave the projected cap space initially because it was more appropriate for the point I've been trying to make this entire time. Do you disagree that the projected cap space isn't the teams end of season cap space based off of the teams daily average cap space value of current roster?


- mochoson

Congrats, you went and copied and pasted from capfriendly. You gave that number because you were unaware of the Flyers cap situation and mistakenly thought that the Flyers had 4K of cap space. You tried to use it to support your flawed opinion.

4. I'm very aware of the Flyers cap situation, which is poor. They have little money as of this writing to fill the gaping holes in talent on this team. They have two players next year making over $7 million dollars who aren't $7 million dollar players. JVR and Hayes are two huge anchors on the Flyers current cap. Lindblom, TK and Provorov have all under performed at times based off their current cap hits. When you're not getting on ice production that matches what you're paying some of your players, that means your money is being poorly spent. So no, the Flyer's cap situation isn't great at the moment.


- mochoson

The discussion was not about the Flyers cap situation next season. Nor was it about any other players underperforming.

5. LTIR cap space isn't "real cap space" based off of the overall point I'm trying to make about why this team is making the decisions they're making. It's not real cap space in the sense that it's TEMPORARY. NAK has RFA status and I guarantee you the Flyers already looked at what his potential QO would be, decided long term he's not worth keeping and that if he could be traded or needed to be waived at some point this season, they would just do it. I can't technically argue with the rest because NAK's roster status was in jeopardy the moment they acquired MacEwen.


- mochoson

No it's real cap space. Again, you don't understand what being cap compliant means. 15 teams in the league last year spent over the upper limit of 81.5M using LTIR. WIth TB tops in spending with over 98M in cap spending.
Again, the Flyers waived Aube-Kubel in November! What don't you get about that?

This argument has come down to whether the Flyers thought NAK would make it through waivers or not. My argument essentially is they not only assumed there was a good chance he was claimed, but they probably welcomed it. NAK being gone has opened up opportunities for players like Ratcliffe, who even this inept management group knows you have to eventually give NHL ice time to if you want to truly evaluate them.
- mochoson

There is numerous information out there, including from Bill Meltzer that the Flyers believed that Aube-Kubel would clear waivers. Again, Aube Kubel was waived in Novemeber. When did Ratcliffe come up? You're just making it up as you go along.

The Flyers can't resign Giroux even if they wanted to because they are already committing $7mil salaries to two players who likely won't provide $7mil in value and another $6mil question mark in Ellis.

Even considering a home town discount, Giroux is still going to need to be paid based off how good a player he still is on the ice. The Flyers simply can't offer him those dollars at the moment. They need time to make other moves (hopefully creating space) and to evaluate other players like Hayes and Ellis (what are chances one or both are still on team next season, if they are here will they start on LTIR, etc).

I'd argue almost the exact opposite. Giroux going to a contender is not only good for him (opportunity to win cup and further showcase himself for FA playing in a better situation) but it's good for the Flyers because we'll obviously get assets for him.

This is pretty much the only situation I think someone like Bobby Clarke can come in handy. Bobby Clarke has known Giroux his entire career. You can't find a more meaningful person to pull Giroux aside and says "trust me, we can bring you back and pay you (x) number, we just need time".

I honestly hope this is what's happening. I think losing Giroux is a huge hole that can't be filled overnight and I think he's still performing more than well enough to justify him remaining our captain and focal points of this team.
- mochoson

You are wrong that the Flyers couldn't resign Giroux even if they want to. I stopped there. You contradicted yourself with your premise that they could trade him and then re-sign him in the off season.

Yeah because those two guys, for the last time, were cheaper. You have been saying the same thing as me this entire time. The logic is just beyond you for whatever reason. And yes, I sent the Flyers PROJECTED cap space because it reflects the teams ACTUAL cap situation, not a number that includes LTIR wiggle room.

If everyone on this team is healthy, the Flyers barely had wiggle room to make basic roster moves. This is just math and it's not hard. Without NAK here, the Flyers have a little more cap space after replacing his roster spot with a cheaper player. Do you deny this simple fact?

Yesterday, you felt the need to point out the Flyers had 15 forwards on their roster. They now have 14 as of this morning and just barely over $4mil in cap space with LTIR. If NAK was still here and someone like MacEwen or Willman was on the Phantoms, that number would obviously be below $4mil.

The $275k you get from trading NAK could be the difference maker as to whether Chuck can pull off a trade. It could be the difference in space the Flyers need to take certain contracts back in a potential trade. Your argument is basically "its not a difference maker because the Flyers can just use LTIR". It's not even close to being that simple.

NAK also had the most expensive salary of any of the fringe roster players in actual dollars this season, thus making him EXPENSIVE (the very first word I used in this entire argument) and EXPENDABLE.

Do yourself a favor and check the dates Hayes first came off LTIR, NAK being waived, and the last game Ryan Ellis played. Then ask yourself why Hayes hasn't been put back on LTIR yet despite having had multiple surgeries already this season and clearly not being close to playing.

I can tell you why! Its because LTIR CAP SPACE ISN'T REAL CAP SPACE.

Thanks for playing.
- mochoson

Are you seriously trying to say that waiving NAK was a calculated cap move by Fletcher to garner more space for a future trade

All I know is this, that Elliott Friedman report that stated G only gave the Flyers 3 teams to be traded to better be false, or the Flyers are royally screwed and will get pennies on the dollar for G. I already posted that St. Louis really has no need for him, and Colorado would consider him a luxury, so that means you have Minnesota and who else? You need to least 3 teams that absolutely want G for this to work. The fact that there were many teams, I was told up to 12 NHL clubs, scouting the Flyers the other night I hope means G's list is much broader.

And please take all this Russia ... Russia ... Russia talk over to CNN, or Fox News, or whatever your favorite news site is, and let us Flyers fans talk hockey and insult each other like civilized adults!
- jd250

Agree absolutely on both fronts...if thats G's 3 teams as you say Flyers are going to get much much less then hoped for. Been saying same thing Avs and Blues dont need G and cant see them giving up any top end prospect to get him.......as far as Russia talk go somewhere else

Expand your horizons you (frank)ing CHUDS....or skip it

NAK for President!! I see that Mackinnon wasn't suspended for that hit on glass man. Agree with the league.....the hit was not suspendable. Kid isn't aware of his surroundings on the ice. His career is basically ova. Terrible draft pick by Hextall and it continues to look like Frost is yet another Hextall blunder. I'm hearing that the Kings are interested in a right winger and Konecny seems to be on their radar. Oodles of young talent in LA.....hmmmmmmmm............

Not purely "cap" reasons technically because as I said, NAK was the most expensive this season in actual dollars of the players in the 11-14 forward range on the depth chart.

I guess I can't technically argue with the rest because once they got MacEwen it probably did come down to keeping him or NAK which again, whether you want to believe it played into the decision or not, they kept the cheaper player.

I'm fine with being a dope either way
- mochoson

Here is my take on NAK, Fletcher miscalculated. I don't think Fletcher wanted to drop NAK but he needed to make room for Brown and MacEwen and waived NAK thinking, as was the case previously, NAK would clear waivers and be sent down to the Phantoms. Well, he didn't clear waivers and the Flyers lost him for nothing. Its not the end of the world to lose NAK, he is a dime a dozen player that can easily be replaced, but the miscalculation was that Fletcher thought he would clear, and he didn't so therefore lost him for nothing.

NAK for President!! I see that Mackinnon wasn't suspended for that hit on glass man. Agree with the league.....the hit was suspendable. Kid isn't aware of his surroundings on the ice. His career is basically ova. Terrible draft pick by Hextall and it continues to look like Frost is yet another Hextall blunder. I'm hearing that the Kings are interested in a right winger and Konecny seems to be on their radar. Oodles of young talent in LA.....hmmmmmmmm............
- Phillywhiteout

Ridiculous that there was no suspension.

Did you hear what a NHL scout recently said concerning Frost?

Here is my take on NAK, Fletcher miscalculated. I don't think Fletcher wanted to drop NAK but he needed to make room for Brown and MacEwen and waived NAK thinking, as was the case previously, NAK would clear waivers and be sent down to the Phantoms. Well, he didn't clear waivers and the Flyers lost him for nothing. Its not the end of the world to lose NAK, he is a dime a dozen player that can easily be replaced, but the miscalculation was that Fletcher thought he would clear, and he didn't so therefore lost him for nothing.
- jd250

Brown and McEwen were already on the roster. The move was to make roster room for Hayes.

Brown and McEwen were already on the roster. The move was to make roster room for Hayes.
- MJL

That's right ... thanks.

Ridiculous that there was no suspension.

Did you hear what a NHL scout recently said concerning Frost?
- MJL

You mean what Bill Meltzer posted from his text conversation in regards to trying to make Frost a 200 foot player versus just letting him be? Unfortunately if this is true that is a bad look for the Flyers development staff. However against the Caps the other night Frost was still invisible for the most part, until the last minutes of the game when he lost a puck battle that lead to the Caps tying goal. Mayhew gets moved up to the top line and not only scores two goals, but you notice him every time he is on the ice. Willman plays hard and you notice him just about every time he is on the ice. With Frost, its hit or miss. I still have not seen Frost driving the play enough, making a move and creating a great scoring chance, and this worries me.