That has never been disputed. No, the point that you tried to make is that the Flyers didn't make a choice on who to waive but that they needed to because of Aube-Kubel's slightly higher cap hit. That is simply not true. The Flyers are the time valued McEwen and Brown more and made a choice. They were not forced to waive Aube-Kubel
- MJL

Perfect sentence that fully encapsulates that at no point throughout this entire conversation have you understood what I'm trying to say.

I have never once said the Flyers were FORCED to waive NAK because of money. I am telling you money factors into the very situation YOU KEEP BRINGING UP YOURSELF about how the roster spot comes down to NAK/Brown/Mac. I said NAK was waived because he's EXPENSIVE, not because of literal cap compliance. While the Flyers cap situation isn't good and they are very close to the limit when everyone's healthy, they could have gotten creative if they really wanted to keep NAK. They didn't literally have to waive him.

Ultimately, if you waive a player you are accepting that you WILL POTENTIALLY LOSE THEM. So if the Flyers felt SAFEST WAIVING NAK it means of those 3 players they were most comfortable losing him for nothing. If you think him having the highest cap hit and largest salary in actual dollars amongst those 3 players didn't factor into that decision AT ALL, especially when the Flyers have other players they'd eventually like to evaluate, then I don't know what to tell you.

The Flyers will likely be tight against the cap again next year and had no interest in NAK's RFA QO because they likely (correctly) felt they will have similar value available in house or in FA next season.

How am I even still arguing this with you? NAK was penciled into the Flyers roster all off-season. He doesn't become expendable until the Flyers acquire two additional right handed forward options that can replace him. Both of these forward options (Brown and Mac) are more versatile and CHEAPER than NAK. Brown is cost controlled next year and Mac is cheaper to qualify as a FA, meaning NAK is likely expensive not only short term but next season as well.

You can continue denying the Flyer's abysmal cap situation by yourself. I'm not arguing about this anymore.

4M is a big number at this point in the year.


- MJL

You actually typed this. Do you realize that's not that much cap space considering all the holes that are currently on this team?

NAK for President!! I see that Mackinnon wasn't suspended for that hit on glass man. Agree with the league.....the hit was suspendable. Kid isn't aware of his surroundings on the ice. His career is basically ova. Terrible draft pick by Hextall and it continues to look like Frost is yet another Hextall blunder. I'm hearing that the Kings are interested in a right winger and Konecny seems to be on their radar. Oodles of young talent in LA.....hmmmmmmmm............
- Phillywhiteout

If I were Fletcher I am not moving TK unless I am blown away by the offer. I still think TK can be a player for this team, and he looks to me like he is really trying hard this year, not checked out even though the season is lost.

4M is a big number at this point in the year.
- MJL

You actually typed this. Do you realize that's not that much cap space considering all the holes that are currently on this team?
- mochoson

The key part of his statement is "this year". Having $4M in deadline cap space is HUGE for the Flyers, NOT because they want to fill holes, but because it enables them to make a better deal for the veteran players they are moving at the deadline. How so you might ask? Many of the contending teams that want the Flyers available veterans have very limited cap space, so the fact that the Flyers have $4M means they can take back an expiring contract or two to help make the deal happen.

Are you seriously trying to say that waiving NAK was a calculated cap move by Fletcher to garner more space for a future trade

- THE BLACK HAND

Idk that I'd give Fletcher credit for doing anything "calculated". He's just kinda there for PR and to push paper around.

But yes, long and short term the Flyers didn't need to pay NAK over $1mil to play in the AHL and take time away from other players.

You LITERALLY don't claim two cheaper right handed players (one cost controlled and another cheaper to qualify as an RFA) on waivers and sign a top 9 forward at the last second in FA for under a mil if you're not at least THINKING about money down to the last dollar (both cap and real dollars).

Perfect sentence that fully encapsulates that at no point throughout this entire conversation have you understood what I'm trying to say.

I have never once said the Flyers were FORCED to waive NAK because of money. I am telling you money factors into the very situation YOU KEEP BRINGING UP YOURSELF about how the roster spot comes down to NAK/Brown/Mac. I said NAK was waived because he's EXPENSIVE, not because of literal cap compliance. While the Flyers cap situation isn't good and they are very close to the limit when everyone's healthy, they could have gotten creative if they really wanted to keep NAK. They didn't literally have to waive him.

Ultimately, if you waive a player you are accepting that you WILL POTENTIALLY LOSE THEM. So if the Flyers felt SAFEST WAIVING NAK it means of those 3 players they were most comfortable losing him for nothing. If you think him having the highest cap hit and largest salary in actual dollars amongst those 3 players didn't factor into that decision AT ALL, especially when the Flyers have other players they'd eventually like to evaluate, then I don't know what to tell you.

The Flyers will likely be tight against the cap again next year and had no interest in NAK's RFA QO because they likely (correctly) felt they will have similar value available in house or in FA next season.

How am I even still arguing this with you? NAK was penciled into the Flyers roster all off-season. He doesn't become expendable until the Flyers acquire two additional right handed forward options that can replace him. Both of these forward options (Brown and Mac) are more versatile and CHEAPER than NAK. Brown is cost controlled next year and Mac is cheaper to qualify as a FA, meaning NAK is likely expensive not only short term but next season as well.

You can continue denying the Flyer's abysmal cap situation by yourself. I'm not arguing about this anymore.



You actually typed this. Do you realize that's not that much cap space considering all the holes that are currently on this team?
- mochoson

Every post you make shows more and more of a lack of understanding of the cap. If you're not arguing that it was a cap issue than why post your incorrect cap space amount of 4K for the Flyers?

Your last statement is more information that shows that you don't understand the cap. That 4M number is not about cap space for future seasons. It is deadline cap space for this season. Again, if you understand the cap, 4M of cap space is a big number at the deadline.

It's comical that you think it was about the 200K or so difference in cap hit. This is over.

The key part of his statement is "this year". Having $4M in deadline cap space is HUGE for the Flyers, NOT because they want to fill holes, but because it enables them to make a better deal for the veteran players they are moving at the deadline. How so you might ask? Many of the contending teams that want the Flyers available veterans have very limited cap space, so the fact that the Flyers have $4M means they can take back an expiring contract or two to help make the deal happen.
- jd250

Yes, and as previously stated the Flyers were comfortable waiving a player they drafted and developed for several years because they had CHEAPER OPTIONS both SHORT AND LONG TERM.

NAK being replaced by players with smaller cap hits and actual salary in dollars mathematically made that $4mil figure that much higher. This has been one of my points this entire time and isn't debatable.

Every GM is looking for a cheaper version of (x) player all the time. That's how you win in todays NHL. If you want to see a team that's figured out how to do this masterfully with ACTUAL TALENT, see the Leafs roster.

You mean what Bill Meltzer posted from his text conversation in regards to trying to make Frost a 200 foot player versus just letting him be? Unfortunately if this is true that is a bad look for the Flyers development staff. However against the Caps the other night Frost was still invisible for the most part, until the last minutes of the game when he lost a puck battle that lead to the Caps tying goal. Mayhew gets moved up to the top line and not only scores two goals, but you notice him every time he is on the ice. Willman plays hard and you notice him just about every time he is on the ice. With Frost, its hit or miss. I still have not seen Frost driving the play enough, making a move and creating a great scoring chance, and this worries me.
- jd250

Frost was bad vs. Pens but I thought he played well against the Caps in limited ice time. Yes, he lost a 50-50 puck battle that eventually ended up in the Flyers' net (after Willman missed the puck and after the point shot deflected off Hathaway's leg and redirected). Frost had a couple shifts where he held his own against Kuznetsov -- hardly easy to do -- and he also started the PP puck rotation that ended in Mayhew's PPG. Next power play, Frost was on the bench again.

Ye

NAK being replaced by players with smaller cap hits and actual salary in dollars mathematically made that $4mil figure that much higher. This has been one of my points this entire time and isn't debatable.


- mochoson

Again, this is not correct. It made a minimal and miniscule difference. The cap space the Flyers have now is due to LTIR. You can make all the false claims that you want that it's not debatable. Actual salary dollars has zero to do with available cap space.

Every post you make shows more and more of a lack of understanding of the cap.
- MJL

You literally can't start a post without an ad hominem, can you?

If you're not arguing that it was a cap issue than why post your incorrect cap space amount of 4K for the Flyers?

Here's my argument: NAK was waived because he was expensive.

Your last statement is more information that shows that you don't understand the cap. That 4M number is not about cap space for future seasons. It is deadline cap space for this season. Again, if you understand the cap, 4M of cap space is a big number at the deadline.

It's comical that you think it was about the 200K or so difference in cap hit. This is over.

Yeah, this is over. You can't read.

The cap space the Flyers have now is due to LTIR.
- MJL

Thats been my point this entire time. Your brain doesn't process logic very well.

Here's my argument: NAK was waived because he was expensive.





- mochoson

Your argument has been thoroughly debunked

You mean what Bill Meltzer posted from his text conversation in regards to trying to make Frost a 200 foot player versus just letting him be? Unfortunately if this is true that is a bad look for the Flyers development staff. However against the Caps the other night Frost was still invisible for the most part, until the last minutes of the game when he lost a puck battle that lead to the Caps tying goal. Mayhew gets moved up to the top line and not only scores two goals, but you notice him every time he is on the ice. Willman plays hard and you notice him just about every time he is on the ice. With Frost, its hit or miss. I still have not seen Frost driving the play enough, making a move and creating a great scoring chance, and this worries me.
- jd250

People probably think that I have a personal vendetta against Frost. I don't. I simply don't like his game at all. He looks like a 100 pound weakling most nights and is invisible for the most part. I hate that people think he should just be gifted a spot higher in the lineup!! This is the big boy league!! Everything has to be earned! Mayhew did it in the last game. Frost needs to start showing something on a consistent basis soon or that B work is going to start creeping up sooner rather than later.

People probably think that I have a personal vendetta against Frost. I don't. I simply don't like his game at all. He looks like a 100 pound weakling most nights and is invisible for the most part. I hate that people think he should just be gifted a spot higher in the lineup!! This is the big boy league!! Everything has to be earned! Mayhew did it in the last game. Frost needs to start showing something on a consistent basis soon or that B work is going to start creeping up sooner rather than later.
- Phillywhiteout

The Flyers handling of Frost is archaic. The belief that everything has to be earned is archaic. You have to invest in a player and proper development is putting a player in the best position to succeed. The Flyers have not done that with Frost. Especially with the fact that the season is lost and the Flyers are no longer competing for the playoffs. Put the player in a better spot and help him to find his game and improve.

Frost was bad vs. Pens but I thought he played well against the Caps in limited ice time. Yes, he lost a 50-50 puck battle that eventually ended up in the Flyers' net (after Willman missed the puck and after the point shot deflected off Hathaway's leg and redirected). Frost had a couple shifts where he held his own against Kuznetsov -- hardly easy to do -- and he also started the PP puck rotation that ended in Mayhew's PPG. Next power play, Frost was on the bench again.
- bmeltzer

This shift-by-shift assessment as if each one is determinative of his future is insane and is only something that folks on a board would find meaningful. With any sport, but particularly hockey, you need to look at the body of work over a season. It does seem that our FO and coaching staff hold him to a very odd standard and how it helps his development seems to be besides the point.

People probably think that I have a personal vendetta against Frost. I don't. I simply don't like his game at all. He looks like a 100 pound weakling most nights and is invisible for the most part. I hate that people think he should just be gifted a spot higher in the lineup!! This is the big boy league!! Everything has to be earned! Mayhew did it in the last game. Frost needs to start showing something on a consistent basis soon or that B work is going to start creeping up sooner rather than later.
- Phillywhiteout

I'm pretty much with you on Frost. I don't love his game but he's still very young. Unfortunately, I don't see him thriving on this Flyers team even next year with the current make up of our forwards. This isn't a great mix of players for him to be trying to develop with.

People probably think that I have a personal vendetta against Frost. I don't. I simply don't like his game at all. He looks like a 100 pound weakling most nights and is invisible for the most part. I hate that people think he should just be gifted a spot higher in the lineup!! This is the big boy league!! Everything has to be earned! Mayhew did it in the last game. Frost needs to start showing something on a consistent basis soon or that B work is going to start creeping up sooner rather than later.
- Phillywhiteout

If only he could be more like Hartnell instead of fast and a slick puck handler. He lost the fight on the boards with Hagelin but looked nothing like your description. Plus, when a puck gets moved to the point and then sent low as that one was, attributing that goal to the lost puck battle ignores a lot of important things that made it happen.

As for “gifting,” he has looked good enough to be with better players so we can see how high his ceiling is.

I'm pretty much with you on Frost. I don't love his game but he's still very young. Unfortunately, I don't see him thriving on this Flyers team even next year with the current make up of our forwards. This isn't a great mix of players for him to be trying to develop with.
- mochoson

We have fast and skilled players that he meshes well with. When he was on with TK and OL, they had a very pretty goal and it was one of the nicest all season. We have a lot of talent that would do well with someone like him (Farabee, TK, Allison (when healthy), IR, and OL and GM). Unfortunately, our FO and “coaches” seem intent on marginalizing him. If this path does not change, he will be another ex-Flyer to go somewhere else and succeed. In news that will likely make you happy, we got Brown back! Now there is a player! Am I right?

It is a strange picture. All of the rest sounds like psych babble, TBH.
- iamscore2day

Russia is a truly strange country. In so many ways.

Oh no it doesn't. Extremely well founded caution given Russia's recent history of excessive dabbling in the dark arts.

Scholz btw is a Social Democrat, a party with deep historical ties to Russia. The former leader of his party Schroeder is on the board of Gazprom. Then there is Nordstream. All of which make him very, very keen on conciliation with Russia.

The fact that even such a public figure with interests to the contrary decides to engage in 'psych babble' and not make the token gesture of providing his sample shows you that its not psych babble and not a token gesture.

We have fast and skilled players that he meshes well with. When he was on with TK and OL, they had a very pretty goal and it was one of the nicest all season. We have a lot of talent that would do well with someone like him (Farabee, TK, Allison (when healthy), IR, and OL and GM). Unfortunately, our FO and “coaches” seem intent on marginalizing him. If this path does not change, he will be another ex-Flyer to go somewhere else and succeed. In news that will likely make you happy, we got Brown back! Now there is a player! Am I right?
- iamscore2day

Frost should be playing top 6 with the Flyers best offensive players.

We have fast and skilled players that he meshes well with. When he was on with TK and OL, they had a very pretty goal and it was one of the nicest all season. We have a lot of talent that would do well with someone like him (Farabee, TK, Allison (when healthy), IR, and OL and GM). Unfortunately, our FO and “coaches” seem intent on marginalizing him. If this path does not change, he will be another ex-Flyer to go somewhere else and succeed. In news that will likely make you happy, we got Brown back! Now there is a player! Am I right?
- iamscore2day

This is another issue I have with people's assessment of Frost. I keep hearing about how fast he is?? Well, I don't see great speed at all. If he was as fast as some of you advertise he could make plays on his own despite the linemates he plays with. I don't see his speed as being anything special at all. Exceptional skaters are not as invisible as he seems to be most of the time.

All this Russia talk. So my son at 15 says he wants to do small trip to Europe for his hs graduation. I tell him get a job and save up. He he did. He really wanted highlight to see Chernobyl. Then political virus hits and that’s done the tubes. He turned 17 in august and enlisted in army. So ironically he could still see Russia
- Stayin alive

I assume this is the same kid who was in your company when you told off the waitstaff for serving french fries in your salad?

I would not have let him go. Still reports of horrific health things coming from there. Tell him to watch the excellent documentary instead.

He would never go there in a professional capacity. If he ever did, the world is ending, and its all moot.

This is another issue I have with people's assessment of Frost. I keep hearing about how fast he is?? Well, I don't see great speed at all. If he was as fast as some of you advertise he could make plays on his own despite the linemates he plays with. I don't see his speed as being anything special at all. Exceptional skaters are not as invisible as he seems to be most of the time.
- Phillywhiteout

I haven't read many posts about Frost being a overly fast player. Nobody has stated that he is an exceptional skater that I can recall.

And please take all this Russia ... Russia ... Russia talk over to CNN, or Fox News, or whatever your favorite news site is, and let us Flyers fans talk hockey and insult each other like civilized adults!
- jd250

My apologies. Consider it a momentary frequency overlap/bleed-over of civilization on the Jerry Springer Show. The usual performance will start surely, I am sure.

I actually felt like a human being here yesterday for a few hours. Gentlemen who aided me in this feeling, mucho gracias.

sad. Go elsewhere if you find ii inapropriate.
- hello it's me 2050

If you think he has a choice, you are not a great assessor of choices.

My apologies. Consider it a momentary frequency overlap/bleed-over of civilization on the Jerry Springer Show. The usual performance will start surely, I am sure.

I actually felt like a human being here yesterday for a few hours. Gentlemen who aided me in this feeling, mucho gracias.
- PT21

Momentary? You just don't have a choice.