I haven't read many posts about Frost being a overly fast player. Nobody has stated that he is an exceptional skater that I can recall.
- MJL

The one guy right up the column said he is fast/skilled. He appears to have good hands and I don't know why the Flyers left him down in the AHL after the all star break, but he seems to have average speed which for a guy that doesn't fight through checks well could very well be problematic.

The one guy right up the column said he is fast/skilled. He appears to have good hands and I don't know why the Flyers left him down in the AHL after the all star break, but he seems to have average speed which for a guy that doesn't fight through checks well could very well be problematic.
- Phillywhiteout

I don't see him as an exceptional skater in terms of speed. He is shifty and can be elusive with the puck.

Seriously, that one dude should be banned permanently!! Every time he comes on here he turns it into some political rant and he starts spewing BS. That dude is a first rate clown and needs to be shown the door! Trust me, if I had the power he'd be long gone. I for one hate politics and I don't come to a hockey thread to read about other's opinions on it cause I don't give a rat's ass about it!!! Now back to your regularly scheduled programming about how bad the Flyers are and how they managed to lose the last two winnable games. Thanks!!
- Phillywhiteout

I tried to post this image here but failed. This is my mental picture of you

https://d.furaffinity.net....dragon-heart_snake_1.jpg

Expand your horizons you (frank)ing CHUDS....or skip it
- THE BLACK HAND

This board today is even more entertaining than usual.

Perfect sentence that fully encapsulates that at no point throughout this entire conversation have you understood what I'm trying to say.

I have never once said the Flyers were FORCED to waive NAK because of money. I am telling you money factors into the very situation YOU KEEP BRINGING UP YOURSELF about how the roster spot comes down to NAK/Brown/Mac. I said NAK was waived because he's EXPENSIVE, not because of literal cap compliance. While the Flyers cap situation isn't good and they are very close to the limit when everyone's healthy, they could have gotten creative if they really wanted to keep NAK. They didn't literally have to waive him.

Ultimately, if you waive a player you are accepting that you WILL POTENTIALLY LOSE THEM. So if the Flyers felt SAFEST WAIVING NAK it means of those 3 players they were most comfortable losing him for nothing. If you think him having the highest cap hit and largest salary in actual dollars amongst those 3 players didn't factor into that decision AT ALL, especially when the Flyers have other players they'd eventually like to evaluate, then I don't know what to tell you.

The Flyers will likely be tight against the cap again next year and had no interest in NAK's RFA QO because they likely (correctly) felt they will have similar value available in house or in FA next season.

How am I even still arguing this with you? NAK was penciled into the Flyers roster all off-season. He doesn't become expendable until the Flyers acquire two additional right handed forward options that can replace him. Both of these forward options (Brown and Mac) are more versatile and CHEAPER than NAK. Brown is cost controlled next year and Mac is cheaper to qualify as a FA, meaning NAK is likely expensive not only short term but next season as well.

You can continue denying the Flyer's abysmal cap situation by yourself. I'm not arguing about this anymore.



You actually typed this. Do you realize that's not that much cap space considering all the holes that are currently on this team?
- mochoson

I understand what you are saying. But just 1 thing: is it possible AV did not like NAK's propensity to take penalties? After all, he is known to be harsh with almost everyone. The demotion of Voracek. The benching of JVR. The pattern of being tough on young players. Could this have played a part?

Frost was bad vs. Pens but I thought he played well against the Caps in limited ice time. Yes, he lost a 50-50 puck battle that eventually ended up in the Flyers' net (after Willman missed the puck and after the point shot deflected off Hathaway's leg and redirected). Frost had a couple shifts where he held his own against Kuznetsov -- hardly easy to do -- and he also started the PP puck rotation that ended in Mayhew's PPG. Next power play, Frost was on the bench again.
- bmeltzer

Bill, didn't Frost start the 5 on 3 PP for the Flyers in the 3rd period against the Caps? I thought Yeo put the 2nd PP unit out there first, and then changed later to the top PP unit. Frost on the PP does show good puck possession I give him that. I just don't see the player everyone else sees or wants to see. I guess the only way we settle this is to swap Frost and Laughton and see what happens, but I can't see this happening as long as Laughton and TK keep showing good chemistry.

This is a problem with 1st round draft picks. Fans tend to get carried away thinking
'potential' means they will be good. They are the unknown. They can just as easily turn out to be bottom six players like Laughton or awful players like Pavel Brendl.
- Captain_Ahab

Is that just first round picks or all draft picks? I think that the majority of fans are aware of what potential is. Laughton is a pretty good player and teams need players who can play up and down the lineup and produce the way that Laughton can.

Yes, and as previously stated the Flyers were comfortable waiving a player they drafted and developed for several years because they had CHEAPER OPTIONS both SHORT AND LONG TERM.

NAK being replaced by players with smaller cap hits and actual salary in dollars mathematically made that $4mil figure that much higher. This has been one of my points this entire time and isn't debatable.

Every GM is looking for a cheaper version of (x) player all the time. That's how you win in todays NHL. If you want to see a team that's figured out how to do this masterfully with ACTUAL TALENT, see the Leafs roster.
- mochoson

The Flyers claimed Brown off of waivers on Oct 11, 2021. The Flyers then claimed MacEwen off waivers on Oct 13, 2021. MacEwen's first game as a Flyer was on Oct 20th and Brown's first game as a Flyer was Oct 28th. The Flyers waived NAK on Nov 12th, 2021 and he was claimed by Colorado on Nov 13th, and same night Hayes played his first game of the season, and Hayes as you know has a cap hit of $7.1M. So your premise that NAK was waived for cheaper players is absolutely not true, he was waived to make a spot, and free up cap space, for Hayes to rejoin the Flyers lineup. Fletcher thought NAK would be unclaimed, as he had been previously, but he miscalculated and he lost NAK for nothing. These are the facts.

I assume this is the same kid who was in your company when you told off the waitstaff for serving french fries in your salad?

I would not have let him go. Still reports of horrific health things coming from there. Tell him to watch the excellent documentary instead.

He would never go there in a professional capacity. If he ever did, the world is ending, and its all moot.
- PT21

besides....Chernobyl is in Ukraine

Frost:

Built like a toothpick. Not fast or quick enough to separate himself from the pack and help compensate for his lack of strength. His style of play fits on the top 2 lines. But is not good enough at the NHL level to warrant that position at this time. Maybe after Giroux is moved out Frost will get moved up and be given more of a chance. Already has major shoulder injury. Turns 23 in a couple months. Needs to show more life in his game on a consistent basis and not just on a shift or two.

This is a problem with 1st round draft picks. Fans tend to get carried away thinking
'potential' means they will be good. They are the unknown. They can just as easily turn out to be bottom six players like Laughton or awful players like Pavel Brendl.
- Captain_Ahab

I like to think of Laughton as a top 9 forward, not a bottom 6 forward. Laughton I think has proven that if needed he can slide into a 2C role effectively.

My apologies. Consider it a momentary frequency overlap/bleed-over of civilization on the Jerry Springer Show. The usual performance will start surely, I am sure.

I actually felt like a human being here yesterday for a few hours. Gentlemen who aided me in this feeling, mucho gracias.
- PT21

So the only way you feel like a human being is to talk about world issues like Covid and Russia? What a bunch of rhetorical nonsense. I care about these issues as much, if not more, than you do, but I also respect the purpose of a public forum, in this case a forum dedicated to hockey and the Flyers. And BTW, I feel just as human talking about the Flyers as a do about Russia, in fact I feel much more human connecting with Flyers fans all over the country than I do speaking about a world issue I have absolutely no control over, and frankly for a few minutes every day would like to forget.

I don't see him as an exceptional skater in terms of speed. He is shifty and can be elusive with the puck.
- MJL

He might turn into a Jordan weal if we stay patient

So the only way you feel like a human being is to talk about world issues like Covid and Russia? What a bunch of rhetorical nonsense. I care about these issues as much, if not more, than you do, but I also respect the purpose of a public forum, in this case a forum dedicated to hockey and the Flyers. And BTW, I feel just as human talking about the Flyers as a do about Russia, in fact I feel much more human connecting with Flyers fans all over the country than I do speaking about a world issue I have absolutely no control over, and frankly for a few minutes every day would like to forget.
- jd250

This shift-by-shift assessment as if each one is determinative of his future is insane and is only something that folks on a board would find meaningful. With any sport, but particularly hockey, you need to look at the body of work over a season. It does seem that our FO and coaching staff hold him to a very odd standard and how it helps his development seems to be besides the point.
- iamscore2day

Oh please ... I really can't stand everyone making excuses for Frost, its pathetic! Look, I want Frost to succeed as much as Bill, Jason or anyone, but I have to be objective and accept what I see. I mean listen to all these excuses, he got hurt, he is being held back by player development, he is being held to a higher standard than anyone else, he doesn't play with good players ... and on .. and on we go. Why is it that Mayhew, a career AHL player, can come up here and play on the 3rd line with Frost and eventually earn 1st line minutes with G and Cam? What is this, some kind of conspiracy against Frost? "Let's stick it to Frost" the glue sniffing development fairy says, we'll I'm not buying it (BTW, can you guess this movie quote?). I just want to see Frost every single shift he is on the ice, driving plays, making offense happen. I don't care if he scores, I care that he generating offense. Right now he is not doing that and whether you like it or not, you have to accept it. Hopefully it changes.

Laughton is a nice bottom 6 forward who survives because he competes. Nice depth player.

1st round picks can just as easily turn out to be Pavel Brendl and Jason Bonsignore.

Both were drafted 4th overall. And simply couldn't play.

Just because Frost was a 1st round pick doesn't mean he will be good.
Just because Hextall/Flyers picked him doesn't mean he will make it.

Some fans get carried away with 'building thru the draft.'

For every decent pick, there is gonna be a Rubstov.

Basically, this team is struggling so much, fans are looking for hope in the prospects. And sadly, I don't think they are good enough to turn things around.
- Captain_Ahab

That’s a good summary. The flyers don’t have a good group of prospects. They need to hit on multiple top of the draft picks to do it right and they won’t. They’ll spend money on free agency to hover as a bubble team for the foreseeable future

Laughton is a nice bottom 6 forward who survives because he competes. Nice depth player.

1st round picks can just as easily turn out to be Pavel Brendl and Jason Bonsignore.

Both were drafted 4th overall. And simply couldn't play.

Just because Frost was a 1st round pick doesn't mean he will be good.
Just because Hextall/Flyers picked him doesn't mean he will make it.

Some fans get carried away with 'building thru the draft.'

For every decent pick, there is gonna be a Rubstov.

Basically, this team is struggling so much, fans are looking for hope in the prospects. And sadly, I don't think they are good enough to turn things around.
- Captain_Ahab

Again, I think fans are aware that just because a player is drafted high doesn't mean he will be good. Do you think that Flyers fans who have experienced Nolan Patrick selected 2nd overall are aware of that?

Oh please ... I really can't stand everyone making excuses for Frost, its pathetic! Look, I want Frost to succeed as much as Bill, Jason or anyone, but I have to be objective and accept what I see. I mean listen to all these excuses, he got hurt, he is being held back by player development, he is being held to a higher standard than anyone else, he doesn't play with good players ... and on .. and on we go. Why is it that Mayhew, a career AHL player, can come up here and play on the 3rd line with Frost and eventually earn 1st line minutes with G and Cam? What is this, some kind of conspiracy against Frost? "Let's stick it to Frost" the glue sniffing development fairy says, we'll I'm not buying it (BTW, can you guess this movie quote?). I just want to see Frost every single shift he is on the ice, driving plays, making offense happen. I don't care if he scores, I care that he generating offense. Right now he is not doing that and whether you like it or not, you have to accept it. Hopefully it changes.
- jd250

I think that you repeatedly miss the point about what is being said. I don't think anyone thinks that Frost has been great or doesn't need to be better. The fact is that there he is a skilled player. The thought is that if he plays with skilled players. That will help him get going and improve. Help him gain some confidence.
You're a guy who is constantly talking about all the injuries but you don't consider what has happened to Frost in his development. Missing an entire season. As Bill posted recently talking to an NHL scout that said you have be very careful with giving up on Frost too soon with what his situation has been. What do the Flyers have to lose by playing him with better offensive players?

Frost:

Built like a toothpick. Not fast or quick enough to separate himself from the pack and help compensate for his lack of strength. His style of play fits on the top 2 lines. But is not good enough at the NHL level to warrant that position at this time. Maybe after Giroux is moved out Frost will get moved up and be given more of a chance. Already has major shoulder injury. Turns 23 in a couple months. Needs to show more life in his game on a consistent basis and not just on a shift or two.

This is a problem with 1st round draft picks. Fans tend to get carried away thinking
'potential' means they will be good. They are the unknown. They can just as easily turn out to be bottom six players like Laughton or awful players like Pavel Brendl.
- Captain_Ahab

He didn't win CHL Top Prospects Skills Competition Fastest Skater with AND without the puck by being "not fast enough". His problem isn't lacking speed. It's that he doesn't use it consistently enough. I'll post some clips of situations in pros where he HAS used the speed he's blessed with. It's there. Has to be unlocked. Frost has to take more ownership of it. There is also a coaching component to put him in situations and with linemates that bring it out.


This quote from Scott Gordon hit the nail on the head: Frost's pacing comes and it goes. But when he shows the speed he's blessed with, he's much tougher to defend. In OHL, he often got away with gliding/ playing at a standstill. Can't do that too often as a pro.

https://mobile.twitter.co...tatus/1218327935318417409

Frost:

Built like a toothpick. Not fast or quick enough to separate himself from the pack and help compensate for his lack of strength. His style of play fits on the top 2 lines. But is not good enough at the NHL level to warrant that position at this time. Maybe after Giroux is moved out Frost will get moved up and be given more of a chance. Already has major shoulder injury. Turns 23 in a couple months. Needs to show more life in his game on a consistent basis and not just on a shift or two.

This is a problem with 1st round draft picks. Fans tend to get carried away thinking
'potential' means they will be good. They are the unknown. They can just as easily turn out to be bottom six players like Laughton or awful players like Pavel Brendl.
- Captain_Ahab

While I dont disagree Laughton is not a good example. He has always been a 3rd line C potential at least to me and I cant say Ive really seen anyone who believed he was higher.

Konecny would be a good example, we got excited for him, he showed a lot of promise his first couple seasons but he's regressed.

Frost hasnt impressed me. His production pace is lower than Nolan Patrick. People can use linemates as an excuse all you want but the fact is, good players produce regardless of linemates.

The one guy right up the column said he is fast/skilled. He appears to have good hands and I don't know why the Flyers left him down in the AHL after the all star break, but he seems to have average speed which for a guy that doesn't fight through checks well could very well be problematic.
- Phillywhiteout

Fans are reaching for straws here with Frost...he is an average prospect who is too small and not fast enough to make up for his size. If he wants to make it in the NHL he is going to have to work his arse off to prove he belongs both in the workout room and on the ice( like a Zuccarello did )...He is not entitled for any special treatment because the fans are desperate. Heck look at Lafreniere, he played a year and a half on a weak 3rd line till he started showing the coaches what they wanted to see from him. Time after time Flyer fans so over inflate how good their prospects are you would think by now we would have learned.

He didn't win CHL Top Prospects Skills Competition Fastest Skater with AND without the puck by being "not fast enough". His problem isn't lacking speed. It's that he doesn't use it consistently enough. I'll post some clips of situations in pros where he HAS used the speed he's blessed with. It's there. Has to be unlocked. Frost has to take more ownership of it. There is also a coaching component to put him in situations and with linemates that bring it out.


This quote from Scott Gordon hit the nail on the head: Frost's pacing comes and it goes. But when he shows the speed he's blessed with, he's much tougher to defend. In OHL, he often got away with gliding/ playing at a standstill. Can't do that too often as a pro.

https://mobile.twitter.co...tatus/1218327935318417409
- bmeltzer

Oh please skating with the puck and having to move and stickhandle is completely different then skating in a circle with no stick or puck . . He has shown no breakaway speed where he can beat or separate himself from a player with any type of consistency. Fact is to this point it seems like he just doesnt want to put the work in based on what coaches and FO has said. Another entitled kid?? Seems like seeing more and more of that these days

While I dont disagree Laughton is not a good example. He has always been a 3rd line C potential at least to me and I cant say Ive really seen anyone who believed he was higher.

Konecny would be a good example, we got excited for him, he showed a lot of promise his first couple seasons but he's regressed.

Frost hasnt impressed me. His production pace is lower than Nolan Patrick. People can use linemates as an excuse all you want but the fact is, good players produce regardless of linemates.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Laughton was a first round pick so he had potential to be higher. I agree his best spot is on a the 3rd line. He can fill in higher for periods.

Are you not aware that not every player jumps right into the NHL and produces regardless of linemates. Every player is different. When you get into grouping all players together and the same, you run into issues. Some players take time to develop into good players. Your characterization of it being an excuse is not accurate. Its a suggestion that playing with better players will help Frost get involved more and gain confidence.

So is morin dead ?

Fans are reaching for straws here with Frost...he is an average prospect who is too small and not fast enough to make up for his size. If he wants to make it in the NHL he is going to have to work his arse off to prove he belongs both in the workout room and on the ice( like a Zuccarello did )...He is not entitled for any special treatment because the fans are desperate. Heck look at Lafreniere, he played a year and a half on a weak 3rd line till he started showing the coaches what they wanted to see from him. Time after time Flyer fans so over inflate how good their prospects are you would think by now we would have learned.
- hfc355

An average prospect in terms of overall prospects or 1st round prospects?
Labeling what is being suggested as special treatment is way off base.
Frost missed all of last season. He hasn't play the last year and a half.

He didn't win CHL Top Prospects Skills Competition Fastest Skater with AND without the puck by being "not fast enough". His problem isn't lacking speed. It's that he doesn't use it consistently enough. I'll post some clips of situations in pros where he HAS used the speed he's blessed with. It's there. Has to be unlocked. Frost has to take more ownership of it. There is also a coaching component to put him in situations and with linemates that bring it out.


This quote from Scott Gordon hit the nail on the head: Frost's pacing comes and it goes. But when he shows the speed he's blessed with, he's much tougher to defend. In OHL, he often got away with gliding/ playing at a standstill. Can't do that too often as a pro.

https://mobile.twitter.co...tatus/1218327935318417409
- bmeltzer

It’s a common adjustment that many Junior stars need to make at the NHL level. I have no problem with Frost, my worry is that the Flyers coaching and developmental staffs lack the ability to help him become the NHL player that he could be.