So the only way you feel like a human being is to talk about world issues like Covid and Russia? What a bunch of rhetorical nonsense. I care about these issues as much, if not more, than you do, but I also respect the purpose of a public forum, in this case a forum dedicated to hockey and the Flyers. And BTW, I feel just as human talking about the Flyers as a do about Russia, in fact I feel much more human connecting with Flyers fans all over the country than I do speaking about a world issue I have absolutely no control over, and frankly for a few minutes every day would like to forget.
- jd250

1. No, it was a comment about the quality not the topic of "discussion", which I will demonstrate to you very succinctly in another post, along with why I placed "discussion" in quotations.

2. Caring about an issue requires knowledge about that issue, and having read many of your posts, pardon my skepticism about this fact.

3. The "discussion" yesterday stemmed off the ancestry of Komarov, which led to a natural segue. Traffic was slow here. No hockey "discussion" was crowded out.

4. You also have no control over Flyers issues either.

besides....Chernobyl is in Ukraine
- THE BLACK HAND

Ha ha. True.

An average prospect in terms of overall prospects or 1st round prospects?
Labeling what is being suggested as special treatment is way off base.
Frost missed all of last season. He hasn't play the last year and a half.
- MJL

Average 1st rd prospect...fans are calling for the special treatment putting him with the 2 best players while coaches are trying to get this kid to reach his potential by working hard and committing himself. Having missed last year has nothing to do with it now. He is 100% healthy . Go out there with the hunger that shows you want to be an NHL star. Most games you never even notice him. You can have all the skill in the world, which he doesnt have, but it takes more then skill

The Flyers claimed Brown off of waivers on Oct 11, 2021. The Flyers then claimed MacEwen off waivers on Oct 13, 2021. MacEwen's first game as a Flyer was on Oct 20th and Brown's first game as a Flyer was Oct 28th. The Flyers waived NAK on Nov 12th, 2021 and he was claimed by Colorado on Nov 13th, and same night Hayes played his first game of the season, and Hayes as you know has a cap hit of $7.1M. So your premise that NAK was waived for cheaper players is absolutely not true, he was waived to make a spot, and free up cap space, for Hayes to rejoin the Flyers lineup. Fletcher thought NAK would be unclaimed, as he had been previously, but he miscalculated and he lost NAK for nothing. These are the facts.
- jd250

So his premise that NAK was waived for cheaper players is untrue and yet part of the reason he was waived is for cap space? Usually it takes you a few minutes to contradict yourself, generally, the over/under is 5 mins. This time you managed it in the same sentence.

Is this what you call discussion?

Average 1st rd prospect...fans are calling for the special treatment putting him with the 2 best players while coaches are trying to get this kid to reach his potential by working hard and committing himself. Having missed last year has nothing to do with it now. He is 100% healthy . Go out there with the hunger that shows you want to be an NHL star. Most games you never even notice him. You can have all the skill in the world, which he doesnt have, but it takes more then skill
- hfc355

It's not special treatment. It's looking at a player individually and seeing how you can develop the player to get him to progress. The coaches methods of players development is archaic and asinine. Missing an entire year of hockey is huge for a young player in terms of development.

So his premise that NAK was waived for cheaper players is untrue and yet part of the reason he was waived is for cap space? Usually it takes you a few minutes to contradict yourself, generally, the over/under is 5 mins. This time you managed it in the same sentence.

Is this what you call discussion?
- PT21

No, his point was that part of it was to add a more expensive player rather than a cheaper player.

He didn't win CHL Top Prospects Skills Competition Fastest Skater with AND without the puck by being "not fast enough". His problem isn't lacking speed. It's that he doesn't use it consistently enough. I'll post some clips of situations in pros where he HAS used the speed he's blessed with. It's there. Has to be unlocked. Frost has to take more ownership of it. There is also a coaching component to put him in situations and with linemates that bring it out.

- bmeltzer

Bill,

Do you (and those you talk to) think that it’s a confidence issue, experience issue, or a work ethic issue?

Oh please skating with the puck and having to move and stickhandle is completely different then skating in a circle with no stick or puck . . He has shown no breakaway speed where he can beat or separate himself from a player with any type of consistency. Fact is to this point it seems like he just doesnt want to put the work in based on what coaches and FO has said. Another entitled kid?? Seems like seeing more and more of that these days
- hfc355

He won OHL Coaches Poll back to back years for best stickhandler. AHL All-Star Game selection as a rookie. And, again, I will post video links if you want to them to pro -- AHL and NHL -- situations where he showed ability to get separation. He DOES fall back on not being nearly assertive enough. But to say he doesn't have those abilities at all is laughable. He absolutely does.

Not all players can make it at this level. Frost turns 23 soon. Farabee and Konecny showed 'signs of life' at this point in their careers and earned themselves new contracts.


- Captain_Ahab

Some fans want to keep making this comparison.

Konecny by the time he was approximately Frosts age had played about 260 NHL games
Farabee at 21 has played 140 NHL games.

Frost approaching 23 has played 50 games and has had to deal with missed games played due to Covid and injury

Bill,

Do you (and those you talk to) think that it’s a confidence issue, experience issue, or a work ethic issue?
- mikeyo27

Fragile self-confidence. Not a work ethic issue.

Laughton is a nice bottom 6 forward who survives because he competes. Nice depth player.

1st round picks can just as easily turn out to be Pavel Brendl and Jason Bonsignore.

Both were drafted 4th overall. And simply couldn't play.

Just because Frost was a 1st round pick doesn't mean he will be good.
Just because Hextall/Flyers picked him doesn't mean he will make it.

Some fans get carried away with 'building thru the draft.'

For every decent pick, there is gonna be a Rubstov.

Basically, this team is struggling so much, fans are looking for hope in the prospects. And sadly, I don't think they are good enough to turn things around.
- Captain_Ahab

Seems like for every good pick there's gonna be 2 or 3 Rubstovs from Hexy.
Re substantial contributors: 2 players from 2015 with TK and Provy, 1 from 2016 Carter Hart, 0 from 2017, and 1 from 2018 in Farabee.
While there are still solid prospects like Allison, Frost, Ratcliffe and a few goalies, those drafts havent seemed to age that well so far.
Need to draft much better than that to succeed, esp with the injured old guard dropping like flies too often.
With any luck we have some winners in Foerster, York, Brink, Attard, Jay O'Brien?, Andre, Desnoyers, and McClennon

Fragile self-confidence. Not a work ethic issue.
- bmeltzer

That's exactly why you play him with the top players on the team. It's painfully obvious.

Seems like for every good pick there's gonna be 2 or 3 Rubstovs from Hexy.
Re substantial contributors: 2 players from 2015 with TK and Provy, 1 from 2016 Carter Hart, 0 from 2017, and 1 from 2018 in Farabee.
While there are still solid prospects like Allison, Frost, Ratcliffe and a few goalies, those drafts havent seemed to age that well so far.
Need to draft much better than that to succeed, esp with the injured old guard dropping like flies too often.
With any luck we have some winners in Foerster, York, Brink, Attard, Jay O'Brien?, Andre, Desnoyers, and McClennon
- biggbear77

Sanheim and Lindblom aren't substantial contributors?

That's exactly why you play him with the top players on the team. It's painfully obvious.
- MJL

Amen!

Fragile self-confidence. Not a work ethic issue.
- bmeltzer

I still think Frost needs to get stronger on puck and play with much better pace. Maybe that will help him gain confidence. If you don't produce, you cant have confidence. If you don't have the right physical characteristics, you dont produce.
It's mental and physical with Frost imho.
I will post it for the nth time, he needs to get stronger.

The one guy right up the column said he is fast/skilled. He appears to have good hands and I don't know why the Flyers left him down in the AHL after the all star break, but he seems to have average speed which for a guy that doesn't fight through checks well could very well be problematic.
- Phillywhiteout

Fast is a relative term and he is one of our faster skaters. Is he McDavid or Point? No, never said he was but he one of faster skaters. We should put him in a position to succeed and see what happens.

Average 1st rd prospect...fans are calling for the special treatment putting him with the 2 best players while coaches are trying to get this kid to reach his potential by working hard and committing himself. Having missed last year has nothing to do with it now. He is 100% healthy . Go out there with the hunger that shows you want to be an NHL star. Most games you never even notice him. You can have all the skill in the world, which he doesnt have, but it takes more then skill
- hfc355

This is a great example of starting your analysis with a conclusion and then fitting the narrative to your POV. I can’t believe you have seen that many games.

Sanheim and Lindblom aren't substantial contributors?
- MJL

My bad, I forgot to include 2014. So yes Sanheim and Lindblom can be added.
If we throw in 2012 and 2013, we only have 1 player here from those drafts Laughton.
I dont count Ghost bc he cost us assets to trade.

He won OHL Coaches Poll back to back years for best stickhandler. AHL All-Star Game selection as a rookie. And, again, I will post video links if you want to them to pro -- AHL and NHL -- situations where he showed ability to get separation. He DOES fall back on not being nearly assertive enough. But to say he doesn't have those abilities at all is laughable. He absolutely does.
- bmeltzer[/quote]
I am convinced that people making these criticisms have not actually seen him play.

This is a great example of starting your analysis with a conclusion and then fitting the narrative to your POV. I can’t believe you have seen that many games.
- iamscore2day

Have seen every game..At this point nothing about his game stands out and in most games he is invisible...

My bad, I forgot to include 2014. So yes Sanheim and Lindblom can be added.
If we throw in 2012 and 2013, we only have 1 player here from those drafts Laughton.
I dont count Ghost bc he cost us assets to trade.
- biggbear77

Hextall was not the GM in 12 and 13.

On a different topic, wouldn't it be great next year to have a 4th line of Laughton centering Oscar and Wade with Frosty a productive 3C? Fill in the above with usual suspects and perhaps we have a marginal playoff team.

Hextall was not the GM in 12 and 13.
- MJL

yes I know, I should have made my first post Holmgren/Hexy in order to go back further. Just showing prior 8 years of drafts pre Fletch not as productive as should have been. But I am a fan of data and if that is a good record, show me the numbers to demonstrate.
Fletcher drafts too early to judge.

I think that you repeatedly miss the point about what is being said. I don't think anyone thinks that Frost has been great or doesn't need to be better. The fact is that there he is a skilled player. The thought is that if he plays with skilled players. That will help him get going and improve. Help him gain some confidence.
You're a guy who is constantly talking about all the injuries but you don't consider what has happened to Frost in his development. Missing an entire season. As Bill posted recently talking to an NHL scout that said you have be very careful with giving up on Frost too soon with what his situation has been. What do the Flyers have to lose by playing him with better offensive players?
- MJL

Yes, I don't want to Flyers to give up on Frost and I agree the Flyers have nothing to lose with playing Frost with better offensive players. I also understand Frost missed the entire season last year, that is why I am fine with him starting on the 3rd line and developing into an NHL player. All I want Frost to do is demonstrate consistently that he is the best Flyer player on the ice in the minutes that he gets, and then and only then do I think he will be ready for a top 6. Right now, G is your 1C (until he is dealt) and Laughton is your 2C (and doing quite well in that role), so there really isn't another spot for Frost right now, but after the deadline Frost will or should have ample opportunity to play in the top 6. I just hope he takes advantage it for the Flyers sake.

Fragile self-confidence. Not a work ethic issue.
- bmeltzer

Oh boy, just what this team needs, more fragile players.