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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Brent Flahr on Prospects & Draft, Craig Button on Flyers, Frost
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StepfordSam
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 02.06.2017

Feb 25 @ 1:18 PM ET
Other teams are going to pay Risto so it might as well be this one. That way, the company men have a good excuse as to why they significantly overpaid for a d man that doesn't move the needle one iota.

The Risto camp knows they have Fletcher on the ropes. He dealt a first rounder for him and could now risk not extending him. My money is on Fletcher caving and giving Risto an extension, because we know this organization doubles down on stupid.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 25 @ 1:18 PM ET
Fletcher stated it at his last presser, they acquired Risto with the intention on signing him to a new contract.
- jd250


Fletcher can’t even disguise his failures
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Feb 25 @ 1:19 PM ET
Ok, first of all, Frost is not our best prospect. Secondly Frost is not being yanked around, he is learning and developing. Its often good for a young player to sit out a game or two, watch video and games from above, identify improvements and then go practice them.
- jd250


I think he is our best prospect….semantics really. I’m not saying young players should be green lighted, but I’ve personally seen enough to warrant a larger role for this player. He’s not 19 anymore. They have an opportunity to get some positives out of this season if they switch to playing some young player in place of guys who are spare parts to get them some valued experience. It’s not like he’s trying to gain a place on the 76 Montreal Canadians top 9..
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 25 @ 1:20 PM ET
People might be pleasantly surprised with the returns on some UFAs. No guarantee of course. All depends on the market but people around the league say:

Giroux's return has been compared to possibly the return we got for Forsberg. Especially if guys like Hertl and Pavelski come off the board. Flyers got a 1st, Parent and Upshall for Forsberg

Speculation is Flyers could get back a 1st and a 2nd for Ristolainen

Flyers could end up with as much as a 2nd or 3rd for Braun.

None Flyer related news:

Nashville is reportingly looking into moving Forsberg as well. I dont really understand this given their playoff position but its a rumour from Andy Strickland.

- xShoot4WarAmpsx


I think button insinuated a 2nd for risto. Prob add another mid rounder.

I have no idea why braun wouldn’t bring back more. He is better and far cheaper.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 25 @ 1:21 PM ET
Listen to Jordon Hall's latest podcast with Taryn Hatcher. Taryn and Al Morganti she said observed the Flyers Blues game from the press box high above the ice for several minutes, and she noticed that all St. Louis had to do was dump and chase, and they were able to retrieve the puck, set up zone time and generate great scoring chances. She said this went one for several minutes and Jones had to make some nice stops to keep the Flyers in the game.

Why do you think this is? The reason is teams know how to beat the Flyers and this has been true for several years now. I know an NHL scout who I see at games from time to time and he told me this, that teams know that the Flyers defense is soft and not mobile and thus if they can get the puck below the goal line, they can take advantage of the Flyers defenseman and get scoring chances. The ONLY current Flyers defenseman that teams don't want any part of is Rasmus Ristolainen, FACT not opinion. This was the entire reason Fletcher went out and got Ellis and Risto, to attempt to circumvent this obvious weakness that every other team has been exploiting for seasons now. When teams dump, they dump on Sanheim's side, not Risto's. And Risto has been the ONLY Flyers defenseman that consistently wins board battles, separates opposing forwards from the puck and gets the puck up to his forwards.

After this point, the gaps and poor break out schemes have proved to be prime turnover causes that have sunk the Flyers the past few seasons also. But make no mistake about it, Risto has been the ONLY Flyers defenseman that has been able to counteract this a bit, and if he is traded or does not wish to resign with the Flyers, Fletcher will have yet another big hole to fill in this area.

- jd250


More than one way to skin a cat playing the flyers
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 25 @ 1:25 PM ET
For Sat Game

In: Brassard, Farabee

Out: Frost, Willman

Hayes "Close" to return. Whatever that means given the in and out of his season this year
PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Feb 25 @ 1:26 PM ET
Fletcher can’t even disguise his failures
- Just5


Ellis shaved the beard I heard.
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Feb 25 @ 1:32 PM ET
I dont think there are any offers right now. Theres still a month to go before the deadline. GMs are likely just in talks right now and trying to gain the necessary room to make the additions.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

yep just saying if that is there you don't wait you make the deal Sonny.
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Feb 25 @ 1:33 PM ET
Risto. For all his physicality is not great at winning board battles. Better than other flyers dmen sure. He’ll go in for the hit but all too often the other player escapes with the puck.
- Just5

Does anyone else htink his physicality is overrated?
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Feb 25 @ 1:34 PM ET
Seems like he wants to play for a contender. I’d be shocked if he lands that type of deal from a quality club
- Just5

Correct. Even a bottom feeder, unless the flyers, will not pay that imo.
corduroy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: “How many times is she gonna ask this f'n question?”, NT
Joined: 12.09.2006

Feb 25 @ 1:34 PM ET
For Sat Game

In: Brassard, Farabee

Out: Frost, Willman

Hayes "Close" to return. Whatever that means given the in and out of his season this year

- xShoot4WarAmpsx



(frank)ing dumb
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 25 @ 1:35 PM ET
I feel sorry for you, because you just don't understand the game. Keep pumping through those metrics though ...
- jd250


Yes, scoring chances given up and goals against. Earth shattering analytics so advanced. They're simple stats that show that your claim that other teams want nothing to do with Ristolainen when attacking is pure nonsense.

When are you going to comment on what Bill wrote in his blog? Are you going to tell him he needs to get it through his thick skull?
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 25 @ 1:41 PM ET
Does anyone else htink his physicality is overrated?
- hello it's me 2050


I sure do. Most of it is meaningless
Bob Habib
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.01.2020

Feb 25 @ 1:43 PM ET
With the player development that this franchise has it's hard to get excited about the future. I feel we hinder some prospects more than develop them.
It's frustrating.. it's hard to have hope for this franchise with the current state of affairs and the way things are trending.
If frost does get traded expect him to light it up on any other team that he goes to. If this does unfortunately happen it's a clear as day sign about how we handle player development

I hope I'm wrong about having no hope for this franchise
hereticpride
New Jersey Devils
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

Feb 25 @ 1:43 PM ET
Does anyone else htink his physicality is overrated?
- hello it's me 2050

In todays game. Absolutely. It’s the least it’s ever mattered in the NHL.
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

Feb 25 @ 1:44 PM ET
Anyone ever think the massive mismanagement is actually a planned tank like the Pens did... and Buttman will intervene to prop up his cash cow for hockey revenue.. the Flyers will get a star in 2023 draft.. he will be the new face of the league and Buttman will be skating in his seat like he did watching the Pens in the finals in 2008 and 09.. I remember the TV zooming in on him and it was quite a show of his involvement in the outcome
- RajaAmpat


nope.

SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

Feb 25 @ 1:45 PM ET
It can be if the plan is to retool. He's a guy that fills a hole but at 34 years old with 3 years left I dont think its a move we should make. Unless MTL is retaining Cap I'd rather overpay for Chychrun
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

No but’s, we shouldn’t make this move.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Feb 25 @ 1:46 PM ET
Yes, scoring chances given up and goals against. Earth shattering analytics so advanced. They're simple stats that show that your claim that other teams want nothing to do with Ristoilainen when attacking is pure nonsense.
- MJL

Why don't you watch the games instead of looking at numbers. If Risto were playing for a team that actually had a good zone breakout scheme, his numbers would be much, much better. Too often I see Risto win a board battle and get the puck up to a forward, only to see that forward fail to clear the zone or turn it over for another scoring attempt. Is that on Risto? The answer to this question is irrelevant to metrics since all they care about is counting scoring chances against when a player is on the ice. That is why you watch the games!

But metric wise, Risto has 823 chances against this season, which ranks him 3rd out the top 4 defenseman on the team. Sanheim is #1 at 934 chances against, Provorov is #2 at 874 chances against and Braun is #4 at 804 chances against. Its funny how you don't mention this in your posts, that Sanheim and Provorov, both drafted by Hextall, have more chances against than Risto. Hmmmm
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Feb 25 @ 1:47 PM ET
I sure do. Most of it is meaningless
- Just5

Agree. Much like Haggs....
hello it's me 2050
Location: AR
Joined: 05.14.2021

Feb 25 @ 1:47 PM ET
In todays game. Absolutely. It’s the least it’s ever mattered in the NHL.
- hereticpride

I am talking about his though, not physicality overall. He really isn't that physical to me.
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

Feb 25 @ 1:48 PM ET
Summary of why you think we should listen to the summary pls
- funmaster18


Because it's always better to listen to the source than read some dimwit's interpretation. And asking for a summary is the height of laziness.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 25 @ 1:50 PM ET
Why don't you watch the games instead of looking at numbers. If Risto were playing for a team that actually had a good zone breakout scheme, his numbers would be much, much better. Too often I see Risto win a board battle and get the puck up to a forward, only to see that forward fail to clear the zone or turn it over for another scoring attempt. Is that on Risto? The answer to this question is irrelevant to metrics since all they care about is counting scoring chances against when a player is on the ice. That is why you watch the games!
- jd250



We gave up a first, a 2nd and an NHL player for Ristolainen. For that cost he is supposed to be a player that upgrades the team in all those areas rather than being a player that has to be carried. Whether you watch the game or look at the numbers, the answer is the same. That depends on who is doing the watching though.

When are you going to comment on what Bill wrote in the blog concerning the use of Frost?
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 25 @ 1:52 PM ET
Why don't you watch the games instead of looking at numbers. If Risto were playing for a team that actually had a good zone breakout scheme, his numbers would be much, much better. Too often I see Risto win a board battle and get the puck up to a forward, only to see that forward fail to clear the zone or turn it over for another scoring attempt. Is that on Risto? The answer to this question is irrelevant to metrics since all they care about is counting scoring chances against when a player is on the ice. That is why you watch the games!
- jd250


Risto will look fine on a contender if they want a physical 3rd pair guy to play 16-17 mins.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Feb 25 @ 1:54 PM ET
We gave up a first, a 2nd and an NHL player for Ristolainen. For that cost he is supposed to be a player that upgrades the team in all those areas rather than being a player that has to be carried. Whether you watch the game or look at the numbers, the answer is the same. That depends on who is doing the watching though.

When are you going to comment on what Bill wrote in the blog concerning the use of Frost?

- MJL

But metric wise, Risto has 823 chances against this season, which ranks him 3rd out the top 4 defenseman on the team. Sanheim is #1 at 934 chances against, Provorov is #2 at 874 chances against and Braun is #4 at 804 chances against. Its funny how you don't mention this in your posts, that Sanheim and Provorov, both drafted by Hextall, have more chances against than Risto. Hmmmm

I did comment several times already on Frost and his development. I love Bill but I simply don't agree with him.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

Feb 25 @ 1:56 PM ET
Risto will look fine on a contender if they want a physical 3rd pair guy to play 16-17 mins.
- Just5

Risto is a top 4 guy that he's been hurt badly by the team's poor play, especially with the way they break out of their zone. Strong forwards are too high and no options in the center of the zone.
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