Arguably Adam's and stevie can be interchangeable

- Boss34

Everything is “arguable”

But not everything is well argued,
as u are proving

I know we like to dream big, but Buffalo is simply not a destination for those kind of events, regardless of where the stadium would be built. The city just isn't built for it.

There's still not enough hotel space, though that is improving. The highway/transportation system in and out of the city is still incredibly archaic, and probably most importantly, you can't fly direct in or out of Buffalo from a number of major cities, with some of the major airlines continuing to cut routes from here (*cough* Southwest *cough*). The weather doesn't help either.

As far as sports go, I think Rounds 1 & 2 of March Madness are as big of an event this city is ever going to get.
- buffalofan19

Exactly this.

I actually think it is smart for them to go a little smaller.

Know their market. Buffalo is the second smallest market in the NFL behind Green Bay I believe. The lack of hotels would prevent any major event (Super Bowl) from ever being here. Spending another $500 million on a stadium and then having to spend another $5 Billion in infrastructure plus building more hotels that would never be filled except for a one time event like the Super Bowl is like hosting the Olympic Games. You spend all this money for a 2 week event and then watch as those building remain vacant.

I know we like to dream big, but Buffalo is simply not a destination for those kind of events, regardless of where the stadium would be built. The city just isn't built for it.

There's still not enough hotel space, though that is improving. The highway/transportation system in and out of the city is still incredibly archaic, and probably most importantly, you can't fly direct in or out of Buffalo from a number of major cities, with some of the major airlines continuing to cut routes from here (*cough* Southwest *cough*). The weather doesn't help either.

As far as sports go, I think Rounds 1 & 2 of March Madness are as big of an event this city is ever going to get.
- buffalofan19

nailed it...

Indianapolis is set up for all those types of events (traffic, hotels, convention centers city layout) and the only thing they can ever get is NCAA stuff (NCAA is headquarted in Indy). They did get the one super bowl right after they built the new stadium but i doubt they ever get another one.

Those types of things will mostly be done in nicer weather and hipper cities.

According to this site Vegas has a 48% chance to make the playoffs.

http://www.playoffstatus....ldenknightsstandings.html

Not sure what you mean - every agent makes it clear what the tax advantages or disadvantages are signing contracts. It isn't a new thing.

Also, a lot of players don't want to play in the south because they say it doesn't feel like hockey. The florida teams are a destination now because the teams are good, not because of the beaches. Same thing with the Bills - players are giving discounts to play here because we are good.
- Slump Buster

The new thing would be not budging on contracts, exactly what I highlighted. Agent A says we have an offer from any team (that plays in a taxed state). Agent A also gets a percentage of the contract, and you know their headquarters are in Delaware or somewhere so they have an incentive to get the highest dollar regardless of tax status. Tampa and Fla now say, ok got sign that one then (to the player) or take less to be competitive. Stamkos is the perfect example. He took way less then was being offered (hasn't particularly helped as he's fallen off quite a bit, but an example no less). And yes of course being good helps. They got the trifecta going. Nice weather, no tax, and are good.

Exactly this.

I actually think it is smart for them to go a little smaller.

Know their market. Buffalo is the second smallest market in the NFL behind Green Bay I believe. The lack of hotels would prevent any major event (Super Bowl) from ever being here. Spending another $500 million on a stadium and then having to spend another $5 Billion in infrastructure plus building more hotels that would never be filled except for a one time event like the Super Bowl is like hosting the Olympic Games. You spend all this money for a 2 week event and then watch as those building remain vacant.
- Stripes77

I know a few have happened outside, but I think the NFL would like to avoid cold outdoor superbowls at all costs as well.

How do you figure? If they spent a few hundred million more, what would that get them?
- Slump Buster

potentially:
College bowl game
Elite 8 or sweet 16 College B-BAll
More concerts
UB Potential Stadium combo
better attractions for UFA players
More hotels and things to do around the stadium.
the stadium would come with improved infrastructure with it to downtown which is desperately needed.


Cons
Less places for people to get stupid drunk.

I know a few have happened outside, but I think the NFL would like to avoid cold outdoor superbowls at all costs as well.
- SDSabre

The most recent open air cold weather Super Bowl was done at Met Life and that was it in the last 30 years or so of cold weather Super Bowls

potentially:
College bowl game
Elite 8 or sweet 16 College B-BAll
More concerts
UB Potential Stadium combo
better attractions for UFA players
More hotels and things to do around the stadium.
the stadium would come with improved infrastructure with it to downtown which is desperately needed.


Cons
Less places for people to get stupid drunk.
- ImThatGuy

So you're cool with adding $3-5 billion in cost to the stadium then?

Exactly this.

I actually think it is smart for them to go a little smaller.

Know their market. Buffalo is the second smallest market in the NFL behind Green Bay I believe. The lack of hotels would prevent any major event (Super Bowl) from ever being here. Spending another $500 million on a stadium and then having to spend another $5 Billion in infrastructure plus building more hotels that would never be filled except for a one time event like the Super Bowl is like hosting the Olympic Games. You spend all this money for a 2 week event and then watch as those building remain vacant.
- Stripes77

Smaller is fine, In the waste land that is OP and open air is what i have issue with.

The most recent open air cold weather Super Bowl was done at Met Life and that was it in the last 30 years or so of cold weather Super Bowls
- Stripes77

Yep, knew there was one and couldn't remember exactly. I don't think that got great reviews for the atmosphere they were hoping for either.

Everything is “arguable”

But not everything is swell argued,
as u are proving
- jdfitz77

brilliant

So you're cool with adding $3-5 billion in cost to the stadium then?
- Stripes77

3-5 billion, where are you getting that number?

The 2.4 billion DT stadium cost was with infrastructure included.

Also, yes, if it means finally getting public transit to downtown and not just to UB then Yes.

If it means easier access and more access to DT other than route 5 and the 190 then yes.

The infrastructure upgrades are needed regardless of Stadium.

So you're cool with adding $3-5 billion in cost to the stadium then?
- Stripes77

The improved infrastructure is gonna need to be done anyways

And the $$$ generated by a downtown stadium would be much higher than OP

An OP stadium get us the WORSE return on investment

3-5 billion, where are you getting that number?

The 2.4 billion DT stadium cost was with infrastructure included.

Also, yes, if it means finally getting public transit to downtown and not just to UB then Yes.

If it means easier access and more access to DT other than route 5 and the 190 then yes.

The infrastructure upgrades are needed regardless of Stadium.
- ImThatGuy

Buffalo is investing in projects geared towards improving existing vs new build/scaling.

The city does not have the population or growth to consider those investments.

Exactly this.

I actually think it is smart for them to go a little smaller.

Know their market. Buffalo is the second smallest market in the NFL behind Green Bay I believe. The lack of hotels would prevent any major event (Super Bowl) from ever being here. Spending another $500 million on a stadium and then having to spend another $5 Billion in infrastructure plus building more hotels that would never be filled except for a one time event like the Super Bowl is like hosting the Olympic Games. You spend all this money for a 2 week event and then watch as those building remain vacant.
- Stripes77

All of this, but to add to my airlines point, which most people overlook. To use the Super Bowl as an example:

NFL cities you can fly direct to and from Buffalo:

Boston
New York City
Miami/Fort Lauderdale
Baltimore/Washington DC
Denver
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
Dallas
Philadelphia
Minneapolis
Chicago
Detroit
Tampa
Atlanta
Charlotte
Phoenix

Cities you can't:

Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Nashville
Indianapolis
Houston
Jacksonville (though Orlando is about 2 hours away)
Kansas City
Green Bay/Milwaukee
New Orleans
San Francisco
Seattle

That's too high of a percentage when bidding on a major event. Granted, some cities, such as Pittsburgh and Cleveland are drivable, but you're still behind the 8-ball there. Also, some of those cities you can fly direct, such as Phoenix and Las Vegas, aren't everyday service either.

Buffalo is investing in projects geared towards improving existing vs new build/scaling.

The city does not have the population or growth to consider those investments.
- washedup20

how is the population growth in Buffalo these days? i left the area almost 20 years ago because after graduating college i got laughable job offers in the area or just straight up told we don't have openings.

So there was a shadow GM in Tampa pulling all of the right strings? That's pretty harsh.

Keep in mind that Detroit was an absolute mess when he joined. The cupboard was bare and they had a ton of vets on bad contracts. As I said earlier, he has them going in the right direction.
- Slump Buster

My understanding:

The same "shadow gm " followed stevie to detroit. 😉

Right direction - 4 points ahead of buffalo , after a 11-2 defeat

Guaranteed detroit fans would change rosters.
Kevyn 's roster for stevie's roster

Kevyns best 3 picks havent even played more than a handful of games in the nhl.

Sabres are gonna blow by Detroit....
Probably this season and for the foreseeable future.

It will be the shadows fault.......

how is the population growth in Buffalo these days? i left the area almost 20 years ago because after graduating college i got laughable job offers in the area or just straight up told we don't have openings.
- SabresFaninIndiana

I thought I read somewhere that 2019 was the first year in a long time Buffalo actually saw population growth. I think there's a "nowhere to go but up" factor there, though.

EDIT: Guess not. https://www.macrotrends.n.../22947/buffalo/population

Not sure what you mean - every agent makes it clear what the tax advantages or disadvantages are signing contracts. It isn't a new thing.

Also, a lot of players don't want to play in the south because they say it doesn't feel like hockey. The florida teams are a destination now because the teams are good, not because of the beaches. Same thing with the Bills - players are giving discounts to play here because we are good.
- Slump Buster

Tyrek hill to miami - destination because the dolphins are good, nothing to do with tax breaks , nightlife or beaches

I strongly disagree.

Tampa provides a winning hockey team, players also like that benefit.

how is the population growth in Buffalo these days? i left the area almost 20 years ago because after graduating college i got laughable job offers in the area or just straight up told we don't have openings.
- SabresFaninIndiana

https://www.macrotrends.n.../22947/buffalo/population

Edit: late

Exactly this.

I actually think it is smart for them to go a little smaller.

Know their market. Buffalo is the second smallest market in the NFL behind Green Bay I believe. The lack of hotels would prevent any major event (Super Bowl) from ever being here. Spending another $500 million on a stadium and then having to spend another $5 Billion in infrastructure plus building more hotels that would never be filled except for a one time event like the Super Bowl is like hosting the Olympic Games. You spend all this money for a 2 week event and then watch as those building remain vacant.
- Stripes77

Good post ref,

Bill's want to sell out and have a "Bill's ticket" be a golden ticket. Good or bad in the standings.

They are pricing out some of the long time season ticket holders already, then add in a seat license fee and a pandemic (in a difficult state of ny).

Make it smaller, make tickets a commodity with the seat licenses.
I have an acquaintance that bought eagles tickets licenses, he's never sat in the seats.
It's an investment....

brilliant
- washedup20

Arguably 🙄

Buffalo is investing in projects geared towards improving existing vs new build/scaling.

The city does not have the population or growth to consider those investments.
- washedup20

The infrastructure upgrades are needed regardless of the Stadium.

direct Public transit is a desperately needed thing this city sorely lacks.

This city has a distinct Advantage of massive waterfront that it fails to do anything with because "green space and Birds might die"

But hey the cool slogan of "Lets keep Buffalo a secret" is great.

Arguably 🙄
- Boss34

Super duper swell