BUt how many fans would jump off the Leafs ship though and go become a fan of other Toronto team.
- ImThatGuy

A lot.

Believe me, every guy in Toronto has had this discussion with his buddies while having a few beers.

Having done "extensive research" on this subject area myself, here's the general conclusion of what would happen should Toronto get a 2nd team:

When it was first announced, everyone would go out and buy something.

There would be a rush to buy season tickets, as everyone would assume that like the Leafs, demand would exceed supply, and you could sell them. So the team would instantly have a sold-out season.

And then you would watch the games. Maybe not with as much enthusiasm as the Leafs (assume the new team would suck for a few years), but the team would probably schedule the vast majority of their games in the first few years to not go up against the Leafs.

Once it becomes a habit, you start taking some of the money you normally spend on the Leafs, and put it towards the new team.

It may not ever become a 50/50 split in support, but MLSE knows that it 33/66 would be the absolute floor for fan support.

That's why they will never allow it.

There will always be people arguing about the stadium, dome no dome, location etc

The important thing is the Bills are here for another 30 plus years
- Stripes77

People call me crazy yet there's several on here that think Buffalo could ever host a Super Bowl... I mean, maybe the New York State High School Football Championship...

The Winter Classic really clouted people's perception of Buffalo as a large event city.

The Heritage Classic had a lot of empty stands and that's supposedly the most hockey-hungry city without a pro team.

Go to the Buffalo subreddit, you'll see just how delusional Buffalonians are about Buffalo. It's laughable.

I love where I was born, and I do miss it, but it's not a top city in the state, let alone the country. It's a fart in the wind as far as the world is concerned.

Columbus sucks, too. At least Buffalo has some actual culture. I like it grimy and run-down. Sure, the area South of the arena looks nicer now, but it's also still just a polished turd. Hideous grain elevators and vacant buildings... Which I like, for what it's worth. But the loft apartments and Casino are a bigger eye-sore.

"you have provided no numbers, just ramblings"

"how fitting a toronto fan and fitz seeing eye to eye"

Look in the mirror

I know what you're doing, you know what you're doing, it's not going to work here

Like I said move on
- Stripes77

Wow

"you have provided no numbers, just ramblings"

"how fitting a toronto fan and fitz seeing eye to eye"

Look in the mirror

I know what you're doing, you know what you're doing, it's not going to work here

Like I said move on
- Stripes77

The bolded one is why he deserves a 1-year ban.

The new Bills Stadium having only 60,000 seats is actually the right move in a post-pandemic world. And a few people mentioned the lack of interest in going to live events in the age of streaming and HD.

Also, America are a bunch of lazy fat pigs. Half the Bills attendees can't even fit in the God damn seats.

It's the right capacity.
- BeadyEyedDouche

So I heard it was 62,000 with room for around 5,000 standing room only (not sure if that number includes the SRO tickets or not).

Not that it really matters, just sharing what I just read.

A lot.

Believe me, every guy in Toronto has had this discussion with his buddies while having a few beers.

Having done "extensive research" on this subject area myself, here's the general conclusion of what would happen should Toronto get a 2nd team:

When it was first announced, everyone would go out and buy something.

There would be a rush to buy season tickets, as everyone would assume that like the Leafs, demand would exceed supply, and you could sell them. So the team would instantly have a sold-out season.

And then you would watch the games. Maybe not with as much enthusiasm as the Leafs (assume the new team would suck for a few years), but the team would probably schedule the vast majority of their games in the first few years to not go up against the Leafs.

Once it becomes a habit, you start taking some of the money you normally spend on the Leafs, and put it towards the new team.

It may not ever become a 50/50 split in support, but MLSE knows that it 33/66 would be the absolute floor for fan support.

That's why they will never allow it.
- Atomic Wedgie

I would think there’s still plenty of ppl in Southern Ontario to support a 2nd, & even 3rd team
If NYC area can do 3 teams, I’d think hockey crazy Ontario could as well

The bolded one is why he deserves a 1-year ban.
- Atomic Wedgie

But did i agree with you,
Or did u agree with me??
😂😂😂

Bills re-signed Boettger...does that mean they let Bates go to Chicago?

That's the miscalculation, in my opinion. Yes, those first 5 years when you see a few Leaf fans depart, MLSE might see something on their bottom line they dont like. After that, once the two teams have developed a proper hatred with the help of fanbases and partisan media...it's a damn goldmine.
- lacaprup

We already have that with Montreal.

And Ottawa.

I'm not really aware of any examples where a billion dollar corporation with a monopoly willingly gave up said monopoly, and it helped their bottom line.

Bills re-signed Boettger...does that mean they let Bates go to Chicago?
- Stripes77

I think so unfortunately

Did u see the rumor about us trading for Bradbury from NyG?
That would be something!

Toronto: Metro population 6 million

New York: Metro population 18 million

Yeah Toronto can do 3 hockey teams why not

Vanek was lazy though. He would have been a .ppg player every season and scoring 50 goals if he wasn't a lazy, cigarette smoking, scratch off lottery buying compulsive gambling insomniac.
- BeadyEyedDouche

You forgot the Vodka.

A lot.

Believe me, every guy in Toronto has had this discussion with his buddies while having a few beers.

Having done "extensive research" on this subject area myself, here's the general conclusion of what would happen should Toronto get a 2nd team:

When it was first announced, everyone would go out and buy something.

There would be a rush to buy season tickets, as everyone would assume that like the Leafs, demand would exceed supply, and you could sell them. So the team would instantly have a sold-out season.

And then you would watch the games. Maybe not with as much enthusiasm as the Leafs (assume the new team would suck for a few years), but the team would probably schedule the vast majority of their games in the first few years to not go up against the Leafs.

Once it becomes a habit, you start taking some of the money you normally spend on the Leafs, and put it towards the new team.

It may not ever become a 50/50 split in support, but MLSE knows that it 33/66 would be the absolute floor for fan support.

That's why they will never allow it.
- Atomic Wedgie

It goes back to my earlier point. Ballsillie (potentially) moving the team to Hamilton/somewhere else in Southern Ontario came with obstacles which Bettman et al. knew would be tough to overcome (i.e. the Maple Leafs blocking it, etc.). If he wanted to move it to a bigger US market like Houston (yes, I know I keep using it as an example), I feel like he would have met a lot less resistance, regardless of how much folklore Buffalo possesses as a hockey market. There just isn't much more revenue that can be gained from this market.

Toronto: Metro population 6 million

New York: Metro population 18 million

Yeah Toronto can do 3 hockey teams why not


- BeadyEyedDouche

3 might be an exaggeration. 2 is definitely doable though.

You forgot the Vodka.
- SDSabre

Vanek didn’t

3 might be an exaggeration. 2 is definitely doable though.
- buffalofan19

That was sarcasm, hence the emoticon.

Someone really said NYC can host 3 hockey teams why not Toronto DURR HURR

NYC is literally 3 times the size of Toronto… hence 3 teams.

Toronto: Metro population 6 million

New York: Metro population 18 million

Yeah Toronto can do 3 hockey teams why not


- BeadyEyedDouche

Oh boy.

Let me put it to you one more time:

YES: Toronto could support more than one NHL team.

NO: it will never happen, because MLSE currently holds territorial rights, and allowing another team in their protected area would mean less revenues for MLSE.

So I heard it was 62,000 with room for around 5,000 standing room only (not sure if that number includes the SRO tickets or not).

Not that it really matters, just sharing what I just read.
- Powerslave

See how this goes, might be giving up my seasons, or hopefully my Son takes them. Gonna cost some Cheddar for 4 seats.

Vanek didn’t
- BeadyEyedDouche

... Or maybe he did. I never liked him, and I know I'm in the minority. Watched him plenty in the USHL here. Great player, but Sioux Falls played 4 on 5 literally anytime he was on the ice, unless he could get a breakaway. Trying to be fair to him, when he did get said breakaway, he would pot it. But the definition of not a team player, there never was one better than Vanek

Toronto: Metro population 6 million

New York: Metro population 18 million

Yeah Toronto can do 3 hockey teams why not


- BeadyEyedDouche

A LOT more die-hard hockey fans in Toronto area

It goes back to my earlier point. Ballsillie (potentially) moving the team to Hamilton/somewhere else in Southern Ontario came with obstacles which Bettman et al. knew would be tough to overcome (i.e. the Maple Leafs blocking it, etc.). If he wanted to move it to a bigger US market like Houston (yes, I know I keep using it as an example), I feel like he would have met a lot less resistance, regardless of how much folklore Buffalo possesses as a hockey market. There just isn't much more revenue that can be gained from this market.
- buffalofan19

Agreed.

As from what I have heard, Buffalo was just as adamant that Hamilton couldn't get a franchise.

And no, that's not a shot at the Sabres. It's just common sense, and exercising their territorial rights as a franchise owner.

Oh boy.

Let me put it to you one more time:

YES: Toronto could support more than one NHL team.

NO: it will never happen, because MLSE currently holds territorial rights, and allowing another team in their protected area would mean less revenues for MLSE.
- Atomic Wedgie

Good luck

Interesting, even though the taxpayers percentage is 60% for the new Stadium, it's actually lower than the original agreement which was 73%.

See how this goes, might be giving up my seasons, or hopefully my Son takes them. Gonna cost some Cheddar for 4 seats.
- Buff36

I'm assuming there will be personal seat licenses.

It'll be interesting to see how they break that down. I don't think they can get too greedy on this revenue stream, but they certainly can try.

Oh boy.

Let me put it to you one more time:

YES: Toronto could support more than one NHL team.

NO: it will never happen, because MLSE currently holds territorial rights, and allowing another team in their protected area would mean less revenues for MLSE.
- Atomic Wedgie

The NHL relocation and expansion fees are getting up there in price, though. In a revenue sharing world, where the teams stand to make the equivalent of half the value of a franchise, there's a small chance the other owners could get MLSE to budge.