Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Cates, Phantoms, Desnoyers, Snider Hockey, Alumni

Nice article Bill, the Cates to center is starting to pay off. Especially with organizational depth at the position. Offense is coming along as well. His impact at center is certainly greater at center than wing for this team.

When all is said and done, Cates best position is as a winger. It gives him the best opportunity offensively. I doubt he would ever score enough to be a top 6 center in this league. His scoring as a 3rd line center would likely decline. He has the ability to be a really effective forechecking winger who can chip in offensively by hard play around the net and be a strong two way winger. He could be a fit as a top 6 winger and ultimately a better player making more of an impact.

Desnoyers closing in on 20 goals at LV. He has been a plesant surprise at a position that is sorely lacking depth. Hope he has a good training camp and makes the roster.

When all is said and done, Cates best position is as a winger. It gives him the best opportunity offensively. I doubt he would ever score enough to be a top 6 center in this league. His scoring as a 3rd line center would likely decline. He has the ability to be a really effective forechecking winger who can chip in offensively by hard play around the net and be a strong two way winger. He could be a fit as a top 6 winger and ultimately a better player making more of an impact.
- MJL

You’re strictly looking at it from offense, he’s clearly a capable center. His offensive production was horrible early on, he’s come along. What’s his ceiling at wing verse center? I don’t think he’s ever going to be a 50+ point guy, if he’s scoring high 30s low 40s in a third line center role that can check lines that’s a much greater add than what he can do at wing

Today’s Mount Rushmore of Incompetence

Desnoyers closing in on 20 goals at LV. He has been a plesant surprise at a position that is sorely lacking depth. Hope he has a good training camp and makes the roster.
-Trox88

You might see Desnoyers centering the 4th line on the Flyers after the deadline if the Flyers can move Brown. He has been consistently good everywhere he has played since he has been drafted by the Flyers.

When all is said and done, Cates best position is as a winger. It gives him the best opportunity offensively. I doubt he would ever score enough to be a top 6 center in this league. His scoring as a 3rd line center would likely decline. He has the ability to be a really effective forechecking winger who can chip in offensively by hard play around the net and be a strong two way winger. He could be a fit as a top 6 winger and ultimately a better player making more of an impact.
- MJL

You post this like you know its a sure thing Cates cannot play center. I don't think anyone can make a definitive statement just yet. True Cates has a very poor faceoff %, under 40%, but defensively he has shown he can handle the responsibility and as far as offense, Cates is only 1 point behind your boy Frost and only 5 points behind Tippet who is being praised left and right as having a very good season. As Cates gets more comfortable at center his offense will continue to improve. Cates then will have to improve his FO% significantly. Laughton moves from center to wing when needed, is it a bad thing to have another forward in the lineup that can do the same thing?

You might see Desnoyers centering the 4th line on the Flyers after the deadline if the Flyers can move Brown. He has been consistently good everywhere he has played since he has been drafted by the Flyers.
- jd250

no you wont, no chance.

Peeps still defend Saint Ronnie until the end. Very entertaining.

Ronald being a better GM than Chuck doesn't equate to Ronald being a good GM. He has pooped the bed in pitt so far. Much like here he has no real plan just a lot of hope.

Peeps still defend Saint Ronnie until the end. Very entertaining.

Ronald being a better GM than Chuck doesn't equate to Ronald being a good GM. He has pooped the bed in pitt so far. Much like here he has no real plan just a lot of hope.
- hello it's me 2050

Draft and develop ! Just wait for that miracle pick at #20th overall

Draft and develop ! Just wait for that miracle pick at #20th overall
- ClaudeFather

that isnt even a plan, it is what majority of teams in all sports do.

Much like Chuck, Ronald was in complete control when he was the GM

https://theathletic.com/4...-timo-meier-patrick-kane/ Kevin Hayes all the way up to number 9 on the Athletic Trade Board...JVR falling fast.

You’re strictly looking at it from offense, he’s clearly a capable center. His offensive production was horrible early on, he’s come along. What’s his ceiling at wing verse center? I don’t think he’s ever going to be a 50+ point guy, if he’s scoring high 30s low 40s in a third line center role that can check lines that’s a much greater add than what he can do at wing
- ClaudeFather

You're incorrect that I'm strictly looking at it from offense. I'm looking at the entire position. I clearly posted in the post you replied to that I think he has a higher ceiling as a winger than at center. It's not a greater add if he's scoring in the 30 to low 40's as a 3C then he would be as having potential to be a top 6 winger with better point totals playing in better offensive situations with more talented players while keeping the same strong play away from the puck. By all means, let's pigeon hole a young player as a future 3C. Rather than try and develop him into something more.

You post this like you know its a sure thing Cates cannot play center. I don't think anyone can make a definitive statement just yet. True Cates has a very poor faceoff %, under 40%, but defensively he has shown he can handle the responsibility and as far as offense, Cates is only 1 point behind your boy Frost and only 5 points behind Tippet who is being praised left and right as having a very good season. As Cates gets more comfortable at center his offense will continue to improve. Cates then will have to improve his FO% significantly. Laughton moves from center to wing when needed, is it a bad thing to have another forward in the lineup that can do the same thing?
- jd250

I stopped reading your post after the first sentence. We already know he can play center. The debate is what is his best position moving forward.

I do believe if Larkin is a UFA. they will do whatever it takes to create cap space to sign him. Unlike what they were willing to do for Johnny.Hockey. Not writing I necessarily agree. There just will not be a severe tear down of the roster while Comcast owns the team. I think that is very evident.

I do believe if Larkin is a UFA. they will do whatever it takes to create cap space to sign him. Unlike what they were willing to do for Johnny.Hockey. Not writing I necessarily agree. There just will not be a severe tear down of the roster while Comcast owns the team. I think that is very evident.
- Trox88

Larkin is signing in Detroit.

I do believe if Larkin is a UFA. they will do whatever it takes to create cap space to sign him. Unlike what they were willing to do for Johnny.Hockey. Not writing I necessarily agree. There just will not be a severe tear down of the roster while Comcast owns the team. I think that is very evident.
- Trox88

cap space wasn't an issue, Chuck didn't want JG for whatever reason.

https://theathletic.com/4...-timo-meier-patrick-kane/ Kevin Hayes all the way up to number 9 on the Athletic Trade Board...JVR falling fast.
- Sinisalo4vr

Basically says what we have all been saying about Hayes.

Hayes’ complication is a familiar one: too much money for teams tight to the cap unless Philadelphia eats a some of the contract. The problem is, it’s a $7.142 million average annual value for not just this year but three years beyond this one. That’s a roadblock unless the Flyers are prepared to take a contract back. But Hayes would have value to Colorado and Dallas, for starters — two teams looking for help down the middle.

Larkin is signing in Detroit.
- BINGO!

If that s the case, then Desoyners even has a better chance to make the roster because the free agent market for center is shallow.

Basically says what we have all been saying about Hayes.
- MBFlyerfan

I thought it interesting for the fact that Hayes wasn’t even on their radar and now sits at 9. Could be click bait but that’s generally not how the Athletic operates. Also on the subject of JVR, the focus on his scoring drought makes you wonder if they’ll get much more than a third rounder.

Basically says what we have all been saying about Hayes.
- MBFlyerfan

Retain salary and/or take (bad) cap hits back in return.

Or suck it up and buy him out to make Torts happy.

Either way the Flyers will just compound the mistake of signing Hayes in the first place.

I thought it interesting for the fact that Hayes wasn’t even on their radar and now sits at 9. Could be click bait but that’s generally not how the Athletic operates. Also on the subject of JVR, the focus on his scoring drought makes you wonder if they’ll get much more than a third rounder.
- Sinisalo4vr

Here's why:

"After Bo Horvat and Ryan O’Reilly were traded and Jonathan Toews took himself out of the running for a trade by issuing a statement that he’s focused primarily on dealing with the effects of long COVID, suddenly the market for center-ice depth thinned quickly."

If I'm a team that needs C depth, I'd rather go chasing after Monahan, Brassard, Bjugstad, Eller or Bonino than get stuck w/ Hayes for 3 more seasons. Even Max Domi if I had to.

I thought it interesting for the fact that Hayes wasn’t even on their radar and now sits at 9. Could be click bait but that’s generally not how the Athletic operates. Also on the subject of JVR, the focus on his scoring drought makes you wonder if they’ll get much more than a third rounder.
- Sinisalo4vr

It basically comes down to how many centers decent to good centers are available to move. Hayes can play two positions and can produce points. It's just how much are the flyers willing to eat in salary and the other teams draft pick.

When all is said and done, Cates best position is as a winger. It gives him the best opportunity offensively. I doubt he would ever score enough to be a top 6 center in this league. His scoring as a 3rd line center would likely decline. He has the ability to be a really effective forechecking winger who can chip in offensively by hard play around the net and be a strong two way winger. He could be a fit as a top 6 winger and ultimately a better player making more of an impact.
- MJL

Top 6 winger 🤣