I keep reading anyone with a brain or anyone watching comments. Factual data was provided to you on Frost that shows that your statement of there is a lot more there with Tippet and that he has a more defined ceiling is incorrect. They are very equal in terms of quality of player and talent. You dismiss those facts and stick to the narrative. - MJL
What you call facts I call folly. I go by what I see when I watch the games, that to me is the only way to see the impact of a player. Why do you think Torts often tells the media he has to go back and watch the tape when asked about a players performance? That is what real hockey coaches/scouts etc do. They don't rely on some half-assed metrics from some high schooler in his parent's basement. In the end, the only metric that matters is how many goals you score and how many goals you prevent from being scored. Everything else is meaningless IMO. It is often really hard to see Frost in some of these games. Now as this season has gone along Frost is more visible and is making more plays, anyone can see that, but it pales in comparison to the impact a TK, Tippet or Cates have in the game. There is a reason these 3 players are more visible than Frost and play more minutes than Frost, because they are better than Frost. There is really no other way around it. I admit that Frost has shown me more than I thought he would, he clearly is more than an AHL player, and I can say that now not because I look at some obscure metric from who knows where, but because I see the plays he makes on the ice.
Agreed. Tortorella's comments are often not well thought out and without value. - MJL
Its just the opposite actually. Torts is very calculating when he speaks to the media and uses them often to get a message across. In the case of Allison, Torts is 100% correct, the player is completely unreliable and has been all throughout college and his pro career. As good as Allison might be in a bottom 6 role, reliability is the best ability and Allison is just not reliable. I don't expect Allison will be part of the solution long term here unless he somehow figures this part out, but at 25 years old I doubt he will.
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ Joined: 03.17.2006
Mar 17 @ 8:05 AM ET
Its just the opposite actually. Torts is very calculating when he speaks to the media and uses them often to get a message across. In the case of Allison, Torts is 100% correct, the player is completely unreliable and has been all throughout college and his pro career. As good as Allison might be in a bottom 6 role, reliability is the best ability and Allison is just not reliable. I don't expect Allison will be part of the solution long term here unless he somehow figures this part out, but at 25 years old I doubt he will. - jd250
Well, he is signed for next season so they better figure it out. Because now what is going to happen is Allison is going to hide injuries when at all possible. Torts was dumb and while I agree he knew what he was doing, what he did was dumb.
Well, he is signed for next season so they better figure it out. Because now what is going to happen is Allison is going to hide injuries when at all possible. Torts was dumb and while I agree he knew what he was doing, what he did was dumb. - MBFlyerfan
says who? this is just speculation. Torts praised him in other areas.
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ Joined: 03.17.2006
Mar 17 @ 8:29 AM ET
says who? this is just speculation. Torts praised him in other areas. - Peter Richards
Says me. Of course it is speculation. What else would it be?
Lets use some common sense and human nature here. Your coach just called you out for being hurt all the time. He obviously isnt getting hurt on purpose. So next time he gets hurt, if it is not a debilitating injury, something he may have reported in the past he may not report because why would he?
Says me. Of course it is speculation. What else would it be?
Lets use some common sense and human nature here. Your coach just called you out for being hurt all the time. He obviously isnt getting hurt on purpose. So next time he gets hurt, if it is not a debilitating injury, something he may have reported in the past he may not report because why would he?
I know I wouldn't say anything if it were me. - MBFlyerfan
Well, he is signed for next season so they better figure it out. Because now what is going to happen is Allison is going to hide injuries when at all possible. Torts was dumb and while I agree he knew what he was doing, what he did was dumb. - MBFlyerfan
I think the hope is that this motivates Allison to be more professional in his work. Torts indicated that he has been on Allison's back all season about this, that is not a good sign. To play any sport at the highest level, you have to be 100% committed to being able to perform each and every night, and that means putting in the time for physical fitness, diet, sleep, etc. Clearly Allison has been better this year compared to his previous seasons, but its not close to good enough and I am glad Torts called him out. Torts just said what any fan paying attention thinks about the player.
What you call facts I call folly. I go by what I see when I watch the games, that to me is the only way to see the impact of a player. Why do you think Torts often tells the media he has to go back and watch the tape when asked about a players performance? That is what real hockey coaches/scouts etc do. They don't rely on some half-assed metrics from some high schooler in his parent's basement.
- jd250
As usual, your post offers a plethora of opportunity. It is filled with fallacy, falsehoods, fantasy, inconsistencies and contradictions. We know that you go by what you see when you watch the game. We also have endless examples of how what you think you see is not reality. The facts that have been provided that refute the opinion of what you see, prove that. Examples are endless but a few of them are Fletcher put the team on the path to the cup. Ristolainen is the Flyers best defenseman and one of the best in the NHL. Sanheim sucks. Frost is an AHL player. Tortorella is the Jack Adams award winner hands down. This also includes your recent take on a Tortorella pre game presser where you got what was said completely wrong. Just yesterday you posted that there was no room for Frost on the team in the future. Only to a short time later post that Frost has to be the 2C moving forward. Claiming to have re-thought about it when in reality, you just read what others posted and realized that your take was poorly thought out.
As far as your comment on Tortorella wanting to watch the game tape. That is just an attempt by you to use anecdotal evidence to suggest that coaches only watch the game and don't use analytics. Your comment that's what real coaches and scouts do is foolish. There is ample documentation that coaches, scouts and GM's all use analytics in assessing their team and their players. We know this because literally every NHL team employs an analytics department. You yourself, before you turned on Fletcher, lauded him for hiring new employees for the analytics department in an attempt to back him as GM.
We have comments from a recent conversation with a very informed Canes fan who posted how Eric Tulsky, one of the leading analytic experts in the country and the assistant GM of the Canes. Used analytics to aid Brind'Amour is forming his system and style of play to make the Canes better.
I myself posted an article earlier in the year about how Jim Montgomery used analytics to show and improve the Bruins offensively as a team. To change the Bruins from a volume shot team to making more selective shots and not giving up possession due to poor shot selection.
I guess neither of them are real coaches though. Even though they will likely be high finishers in the Jack Adams award voting. They probably won't win though, since Tortorella has that award locked up hands down.
The data used in analytics available to the public is obtained from the NHL real time scoring system. The analytics are available on the NHL web site and is official data of the NHL. Websites such an naturalstatstrick are well established and used by the NHL community.
Labeling it some half-assed metrics from some high schooler in his parent's basement is just another foolish statement.
In the end, the only metric that matters is how many goals you score and how many goals you prevent from being scored. Everything else is meaningless IMO
- jd250
Now we know that you believe that assists don't matter.
. It is often really hard to see Frost in some of these games. Now as this season has gone along Frost is more visible and is making more plays, anyone can see that, but it pales in comparison to the impact a TK, Tippet or Cates have in the game. There is a reason these 3 players are more visible than Frost and play more minutes than Frost, because they are better than Frost. There is really no other way around it. I admit that Frost has shown me more than I thought he would, he clearly is more than an AHL player, and I can say that now not because I look at some obscure metric from who knows where, but because I see the plays he makes on the ice. - jd250
No, it's not often really hard to see Frost in some of these games. It's actually quite easy. You have a track record of posting that Frost was invisible in a game. Posters such as myself, Tomahawk, Bill Meltzer and others will then point out quality plays he made in the game along with the statistical data that proves you to be incorrect. You just simply dismiss it. Watching the game is only effective in play assessment if one knows what he is watching. We have a plethora of examples from your posting that shows that you don't.
Konecny is clearly better than all 3. Cates and Tippet are not better than Frost and the facts that show that have been provided to you multiple times. Fallacies like everyone sees it and there is no way around it, do not help you.
The very fact that you claimed that Frost is an AHL player and you don't see it. Is the evidence. That there actually is no way around it. Cates, Tippet's and Frost's icetime are all fairly similar. Tortorella often overplays players such as McEwen Angelo, Tippet and Cates. That is not evidence of who is the better player. The statistical data has been supplied to you that shows that Frost is without question an equal to Tippett. Cates is better defensively than all but the worst offensively. Due to mostly to misuse and playing out of position.
I think the hope is that this motivates Allison to be more professional in his work. Torts indicated that he has been on Allison's back all season about this, that is not a good sign. To play any sport at the highest level, you have to be 100% committed to being able to perform each and every night, and that means putting in the time for physical fitness, diet, sleep, etc. Clearly Allison has been better this year compared to his previous seasons, but its not close to good enough and I am glad Torts called him out. Torts just said what any fan paying attention thinks about the player. - jd250
This is another really poor mis-read of Tortrella's comments. He's just simply complaining about him being injured a lot. Allison has fought back and gotten himself back in game shape from numerous injuries. When he's on the ice, he plays with a high level of energy and compete. You're trying to say he needs to be more professional? There is no evidence that Allison does not train, work out or take care of his body in a professional manner. This is another comical take from you.
