Kucherov and Vasilevsky say hi.
- MBFlyerfan

Ovechkin, Datsyuk?

Why? Michkov 2nd best in this draft.
- SMS4016

I’m with ya…it wouldn’t shock me at all if he goes #2.

Kucherov and Vasilevsky say hi.
- MBFlyerfan

Hell, the '97 Red Wings that kicked our behinds say hi.

I’m with ya…it wouldn’t shock me at all if he goes #2.
- landros 2

It should be a shocker if he DIDN'T go #2, but there's a conspiracy going around that since every draft prospect will be in the NHL next year playing that teams just can't wait 3 long years...that's a deal breaker and willing to skip for that.

There was never any chance that the Bruins were going to take Hayes. You were told that. The people you talk to. LOL The cap was not projected to go up 3-4M. It was projected to go up 1M. The only way it would go up more is if the Players escrow was fully paid back. Which was not projected to happen.

Again, where was this large market for Hayes that you predicted? Over and over no matter how many times people such as myself told you it wasn't going to happen.
- MJL

Just as recently as the all-star game Bettman was saying there was a good chance the cap would go up $3M or more. It was reported by several outlets nationally and locally in Boston that Hayes was on their radar. The issue with the Bruins is they are cap-strapped, even with the Hall trade, and are waiting on Bergeron and Krejci. Fact, not opinion!

Some said to move Hayes DB would have to include assets, some said he is worth a 3rd with some retention. Some thought 50%, feels like it landed in the middle, a non factor for where this team is at. Yea Torts being public hurt, yea all knew Hayes was overpaid and yea he is covered in the cloud of failure that is the flyers …

Just as recently as the all-star game Bettman was saying there was a good chance the cap would go up $3M or more. It was reported by several outlets nationally and locally in Boston that Hayes was on their radar. The issue with the Bruins is they are cap-strapped, even with the Hall trade, and are waiting on Bergeron and Krejci. Fact, not opinion!
- jd250

I do believe that was next season

Just as recently as the all-star game Bettman was saying there was a good chance the cap would go up $3M or more. It was reported by several outlets nationally and locally in Boston that Hayes was on their radar. The issue with the Bruins is they are cap-strapped, even with the Hall trade, and are waiting on Bergeron and Krejci. Fact, not opinion!
- jd250

That is incorrect. The cap was always a 1M projection. Bettman talked about a small possibility of it going up more, if the players escrow was paid back in full. Again, that was not projected to happen.

The Bruins were always going to be cap strapped. That was known when you were making the absurd prediction that he would go to Boston. Fact, not opinion. When the time actually came where a trade of Hayes was going to happen. There was zero noise about Boston inquiring about Hayes from any legitimate source. You listened to baseless speculation at the wrong time and instead of actually thinking about it and reading the situation. You dreamed that Hayes would go to Boston.

This is so dumb that I pray no one responds
- ClaudeFather

God I wish I had the time to argue and look up stats all day but I don’t but here I am and since you’re willing to put your balls on the table in this fashion, I’d love to open up this conversation again.

Erik Karlsson in my opinion is not just a great offensive defenseman, he might be all time great with the season he just had but he isn’t “the best defenseman in the league”, not by a long shot. Prior to this season he was coming off two very average to below average seasons with the Sharks. We’re talking about a league in 2010 where Chris Pronger had his third best career season with the Flyers but was passed up in nomination for Mike Green next to two great defenseman in Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty who were actually top 5 or 10 in all defensive categories that season, unlike Mike Green who received nomination purely for his offense.

https://www.quanthockey.c...nhl-defensemen-stats.html

Erik Karlsson with an amazing 101 points as a defenseman but he’s not even an all situations defenseman. An average of 22 seconds shorthanded does not make you the best in the league, smart guy.

Cole Makar averages 26:22 per game, which is more than Karlsson’s 25:36 per game and Makar averages of 2:43 shorthanded. Fox Averages 2:06 short handed per game. Looks to me Quinn Hughes a much more balanced defensemen in the league as well and deserves recognition.

Karlsson is purely an offensive weapon. They’re nothing defensive about him, hints why he’s not the best defenseman in the league. He’s not winning games or making his team or teammates better, he’s factually padding his stats.

Some said to move Hayes DB would have to include assets, some said he is worth a 3rd with some retention. Some thought 50%, feels like it landed in the middle, a non factor for where this team is at. Yea Torts being public hurt, yea all knew Hayes was overpaid and yea he is covered in the cloud of failure that is the flyers …
- wcorvette

Like Bill Meltzer said, in a vacuum strictly hockey wise. The trade is a disaster. The world doesn't live in a vacuum though and the Flyers were always going to take it on the chin somewhat for Hayes. With all of the variables present. Briere limited the damage about as best as he could.

A lot of people upset about Salary retention slots with the Hayes trade. Can someone explain to me what the big deal is? I was hoping they wouldn’t have to eat half his salary to get rid of him, but what difference does it really make? Im not up on the minutiae of the cap, but it looks like teams can retain salary on a max of 3 players. How many slots are the flyers using? They pretty much had to move Hayes (Torts saw to that) and no one was taking that entire salary anyway. No matter what the deal was they were going to use up a slot. So why’s it an issue?
- Dkos

They have 2 more slots and people just want to complain about anything they can


To be fair, Flyers were super cap strapped and even though it's only 50%, it's still money off the books AND the flyers didn't have to send a 1st round pick for someone to eat the money. Sounds pretty good to me.

God I wish I had the time to argue and look up stats all day but I don’t but here I am and since you’re willing to put your balls on the table in this fashion, I’d love to open up this conversation again.

Erik Karlsson in my opinion is not just a great offensive defenseman, he might be all time great with the season he just had but he isn’t “the best defenseman in the league”, not by a long shot. Prior to this season he was coming off two very average to below average seasons with the Sharks. We’re talking about a league in 2010 where Chris Pronger had his third best career season with the Flyers but was passed up in nomination for Mike Green next to two great defenseman in Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty who were actually top 5 or 10 in all defensive categories that season, unlike Mike Green who received nomination purely for his offense.

https://www.quanthockey.c...nhl-defensemen-stats.html

Erik Karlsson with an amazing 101 points as a defenseman but he’s not even an all situations defenseman. An average of 22 second shorthanded does not make you the best in the league, smart guy.

Cole Makar averages 26:22 per game, which is more than Karlsson’s 25:36 per game and Makar averages of 2:43 shorthanded. Fox Averages 2:06 short handed per game.

Karlsson is purely an offensive weapon. They’re nothing defensive about him, hints why he’s not the best defenseman in the league. He’s not winning games or making his team or teammates better, he’s factually padding his stats.
- SuperSchennBros

They should really add an additional d-man award. One for all around best d-man like the Norris should be and then the high scoring one.

They should really add an additional d-man award. One for all around best d-man like the Norris should be and then the high scoring one.
- Aaron_85

You know, when you’ve watched players like win or nominated like Nicklas Lidstrom, Zdeno Chara, Shea Weber, Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty deserving win because of their all around game and suddenly the rules change for Erik Karlsson or PK Subban who absolutely flop in terms of winning, that really pisses be off. This is indefensible.

They should really add an additional d-man award. One for all around best d-man like the Norris should be and then the high scoring one.
- Aaron_85

The league has changed. Being the best defenseman isn't about patrolling the blueline or clearing the crease or playing on the PK anymore. The game is about puck movement, transition and driving play nowadays. That's what the best defenseman do and Karlsson was the best at that this season.

"In a vacuum, the Hayes deal is brutal. But he was a devalued player who clearly HAD to be moved -- and had a big cap hit and 3 yrs of term left. So any trade was going to be unfavorable taken in its own right. At least no assets had to be included"

Bill on Twitter. Pretty harsh from who some calls a "company" man.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Key word is "Vacuum" - Total spin from an employee of the organization

A journalist would have called out the initial mistake of trading a 5th in 19 for the rights to hayes and the subsequent overpayment in the contract offered

A journalist would ask why was hayes devalued. He just had his best season (statistically) and was an All-Star? Why did he HAVE to be moved?

Those are the questions that should be asked but will not be asked from the "state-run media" i.e comcast/flyer employees

Some said to move Hayes DB would have to include assets, some said he is worth a 3rd with some retention. Some thought 50%, feels like it landed in the middle, a non factor for where this team is at. Yea Torts being public hurt, yea all knew Hayes was overpaid and yea he is covered in the cloud of failure that is the flyers …
- wcorvette

Where I stand with Hayes is simple, I am not happy what they got for 50% retention, but it is what is and less concern for the Flyers going forward. I expected a low return if the Flyers didn't budge on 20-25% retention, but I'm not going to MJL it to death for the next 3 years either.

The league has changed. Being the best defenseman isn't about patrolling the blueline or clearing the crease or playing on the PK anymore. The game is about puck movement, transition and driving play nowadays. That's what the best defenseman do and Karlsson was the best at that this season.
- MJL

No he wasn’t. He’s not an all situations player and his team doesn’t win. That’s all the argument I need. The two seasons prior to this season, Karlsson was virtually useless. Good for him for collecting points but he makes nobody better around him.

God I wish I had the time to argue and look up stats all day but I don’t but here I am and since you’re willing to put your balls on the table in this fashion, I’d love to open up this conversation again.

Erik Karlsson in my opinion is not just a great offensive defenseman, he might be all time great with the season he just had but he isn’t “the best defenseman in the league”, not by a long shot. Prior to this season he was coming off two very average to below average seasons with the Sharks. We’re talking about a league in 2010 where Chris Pronger had his third best career season with the Flyers but was passed up in nomination for Mike Green next to two great defenseman in Duncan Keith and Drew Doughty who were actually top 5 or 10 in all defensive categories that season, unlike Mike Green who received nomination purely for his offense.

https://www.quanthockey.c...nhl-defensemen-stats.html

Erik Karlsson with an amazing 101 points as a defenseman but he’s not even an all situations defenseman. An average of 22 seconds shorthanded does not make you the best in the league, smart guy.

Cole Makar averages 26:22 per game, which is more than Karlsson’s 25:36 per game and Makar averages of 2:43 shorthanded. Fox Averages 2:06 short handed per game. Looks to me Quinn Hughes a much more balanced defensemen in the league as well and deserves recognition.

Karlsson is purely an offensive weapon. They’re nothing defensive about him, hints why he’s not the best defenseman in the league. He’s not winning games or making his team or teammates better, he’s factually padding his stats.
- SuperSchennBros

I understand your grievance about the offense part of winning the Norris but none of those guys did enough to dethrone Karllsons 100 point season. Makar missed too many games

I understand your grievance about the offense part of winning the Norris but none of those guys did enough to dethrone Karllsons 100 point season. Makar missed too many games
- ClaudeFather

Well first of all don’t call me stupid. Secondly don’t nominate Makar because he’s the new hot name on the block. Quinn Hughes is also good enough for nomination…but he missed to playoffs too.

Well first of all don’t call me stupid. Secondly don’t nominate Makar because he’s the new hot name on the block. Quinn Hughes is also good enough for nomination…but he missed to playoffs too.
- SuperSchennBros

None of the guys you mentioned outplayed Karlsson this year

Where I stand with Hayes is simple, I am not happy what they got for 50% retention, but it is what is and less concern for the Flyers going forward. I expected a low return if the Flyers didn't budge on 20-25% retention, but I'm not going to MJL it to death for the next 3 years either.
- Glak18

You'll just concentrate on Glak to death other discussions such as with Michkov.

Why? Michkov 2nd best in this draft.
- SMS4016

Fantilli has 1st line center ability- usually the league views 1st line center above 1st line winger ability. I used the term "bold" because it goes against convential thinking. From an entertainment standpoint, it would turn the draft on its ear quickly and could lead to prospects like a Smith or even Carlsson fall to 7. That would fine too.

Hell, the '97 Red Wings that kicked our behinds say hi.
- BaronVonShiznit

Ding, ding, ding!!!! You sir, are the winner. I still have nightmares over "The Big Red Machine".

Ding, ding, ding!!!! You sir, are the winner. I still have nightmares over "The Big Red Machine".
- Trox88

Could add Sergei Federov and Sergei Zubov to the list.

None of the guys you mentioned outplayed Karlsson this year
- ClaudeFather

Yes, They did. Some averaged more ice time. All gave their team a chance to make the playoffs. I do my own thinking. The NHL makes a lot of poor decisions and changing what is viewed as the best defenseman in the league is one of their all time poor decisions.