[quote=Rare_Jewel]Marner is a superior player and it's not even really that close. It's not about Team Marner or Team Nylander. It's just objective and quantifiable…


can’t repeat the Selke again. I will throw up.

+\- is possibly the dumbest stat you could throw at me. There is so much that goes into that stat it is borderline useless to gauge a player by that stat on such a team sport.

Marner plays against top line? Because 34 is typically on the ice too. Also, Willy plays against top lines too. Willy has also seen a decent amount of time with Matthews.

Killing penalties. For sure that’s a great reason to give millions! I wonder what Jamal Mayers would fetch on this theory. Great pk player!

His pts and 34 goals go hand in hand. He sure does get a ton of secondary assists. That is interesting about the primary assists thing. Where’s that stat: I’m legit curios of this was a one year thing or if he always posts the second most?

Nobody questions what a great creative offensive player Marner is and how smart he is at picking off pucks…at least I hope they don’t cause that’s dumb. I just don’t think he is millions of dollars better at offence that Willy. He’s not. Not even close to being Millions better.

Not sure “it’s a simple fact” regarding Mitch making his player last around him better. It’s not. I know this because I can state that it’s the players he plays with that make Mitch better and you can’t at all PROVE to me that I’m wrong. JT played with plugs and got a lot of points. He got a bit more with 16? How much does 16 make vs those plugs?

His next contract will be horrific.

Matthews Marner and a few others always put up decent point totals on playoffs. Well except Mitch with goals over his time in TO - the issue is he is absolutely terrified to make a play in playoffs when the space is gone and physicality picks up. He wilts and always will. Great offensive guy but a better asset to move.

Sell high on Nylander, absolutely.

I would rather keep Nylander and trade Tavares but Shanahan is an idiot and put this team in this bad situation.

If Nylander can get you a top-4 D (or even Hellebuyck) and clear enough cap space to still sign another 20-30 goal winger, you have to do it and give Matthews the biggest contract in the NHL so he stays long term.

Brodie, Nylander and Murray can give the Leafs 17 million in cap space.

5 million on D, 5 million on a RW and 7 million for Hellebuyck and the Leafs are a way better team over night.
- Rare_Jewel

I get the feeling most Leafs fans (except AA) think the same - I agree for sure man.

Who was GM when JT sighed I forgot. Lou still or Dubas by then?

There should be no Marner hate or Nylander hate, speaking as a recovered hater of both. They are incredibly talented professional hockey players.

Willy is a great scorer and passer, but isn't physical or good at defense. Fine, not too unique. Kessel says hi.

Marner is an incredible passer, great scorer, great PKer, great defensively, but cowers at the more physical side of the game and playoffs...yet still gets the job done.


THE PROBLEM with the Leafs has been the same one. It's not the individual players. It's the (frank)ing Cap with the out of whack balance of the team. (JT signing)

Every team has guys that are good at different parts of the game and a "good" GM or team President ( ) should recognize it and balance it out. Cap issues or not.

Last year was the first year they addressed the imbalance of tough vs talent. (I mean any team that has to bring in 6 players at TDL had some issues, no?)

After addressing the issues they got to the 2nd round. Not bad for a team with 6 new players. Not great but not bad.

IMHO, two things are going to work in the Leafs favor this year:

1. A more balanced roster before the season starts and not at the deadline when there is no time to gel. I really believe the revolving door of players has to stop and hope the Leafs don't need ONE player at the deadline. Maybe at worst they move out dead weight...or fine one player if it's a great upgrade or must have that they don't want to miss out on. But none is best.

2. Time to make the decision of: Is Keefe the right coach for a team that doesn't play soft, run and gun hockey? Do his systems line up with tough, finish your check, crash the front of the net, and murder the opponent in front of your own net kinda hockey? Are his systems right for this team? I have a feeling he's gone before the season starts.


Bertuzzi, has talent and balls.
Domi, has decent talent and balls.
Reaves, ALL BALLS and decent hands, but no quit in the guy.
Klingberg, O from the D...there were times of struggle in that dept last year.

Sammy and Woll, look like they both can play. Woll is a great surprise...for me.

Also, it might not be too hard to actually keep these guys around for a few years with the Cap going up and just losing Murray...and Nylander at worse. With JT's deal get much cheaper soon, might be able to keep Willy too if the Leafs don't lose Prindham to Pitts.

It will be interesting to see how these guys gel during the summer and at the start of the season. I'm definitely in the "cheering for" column again.

Bertuzzi, Matthews, Marner ((frank)ing great balance of skill/balls)
Knies/Domi, Tavares, Nylander (Bennett poop doesn't happen next season. Period.)
Domi/Knies, Kampf, Jarkrok (nice utility line)
Lafferty, Holmberg, Reaves (FAFO line, Holmberg was great in his time up)

Reilly, Brodie or STAY AT HOME BALLS type (him and Schenn were great)
Gio, Klingberg (Gio can sit tight and Kling can go north/south)
McCabe, Lily (McCabe is no wilting flower so this is nice balance IMO)

Sammy
Woll

I mean, guys, this looks so much better. And a whole summer and season together to boot! (frank) ya. That forward group looks the best it has in a long time from top to bottom.

I'm all in!

My approach to this Nylander vs Marner debate boils down to a simplistic personal take. Who would I be more afraid to see on another team playing against the Leafs.
For me it’s hands down, Marner.
But I like them both…a lot, as most hockey fans should.

The Leafs need to make a trade with Calgary. The Flames aren't on Willy's list of places not to go. The Leafs should target Nikita Zadorov and Elias Lindholm. Willy and a prospect might get it done. With their combined salary, they cover Willy's cap hit. See if the Leafs could off load either Murray's contract or Muzzin's. It would free up money for another deal, if need be.
- PrinceLH

Only if they take Brodie too because there's no point in taking on two UFAs unless you can keep them and odds are Lindholm costs 7-8 AAV to keep.

Zadorov is also a LHD and the Leafs need a RHD for Rielly. So that's also an issue.

Unless you can flip Zadorov to Carolina for Pesce and get him extended.

Probably got beat to the punch again from the man in the future ( ), but just in case-

Friedman on Domi: "He wants this to be his NHL home for a long time. He wants to be a Leaf, he's got the bloodlines to be a Leaf. He'll do anything to stay a Leaf. He never wants to leave here."

Hahaha fair.

I’ve said many complimentary things about Willy.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Still end up trading him for a sack a rocks, though.

Friedman on Domi: "He wants this to be his NHL home for a long time. He wants to be a Leaf, he's got the bloodlines to be a Leaf. He'll do anything to stay a Leaf. He never wants to leave here."


Love Dubas…but (frank) man, should have already been a leaf

Probably got beat to the punch again from the man in the future ( ), but just in case-

Friedman on Domi: "He wants this to be his NHL home for a long time. He wants to be a Leaf, he's got the bloodlines to be a Leaf. He'll do anything to stay a Leaf. He never wants to leave here."
- GreatGigInTheSky

Of course he says that.

My approach to this Nylander vs Marner debate boils down to a simplistic personal take. Who would I be more afraid to see on another team playing against the Leafs.
For me it’s hands down, Marner.
But I like them both…a lot, as most hockey fans should.
- Woderwick

Yep. Would have no problem playing against Willy.

If I could, I'd trade him with an extension to Seattle for Schultz and Ryker Evans, but there's that whole thing about having a willing trade partner...

I get the feeling most Leafs fans (except AA) think the same - I agree for sure man.

Who was GM when JT sighed I forgot. Lou still or Dubas by then?
- Big23Questions

Dubas. Lou was with NYI and trying to get him to re-sign at that point. But he fired everyone Tavares was loyal to in the organisation and Dubas sold the idea of being a Leaf to him.

Dumba to Arizona?

[quote=Rare_Jewel]Marner is a superior player and it's not even really that close. It's not about Team Marner or Team Nylander. It's just objective and quantifiable…


can’t repeat the Selke again. I will throw up.

+\- is possibly the dumbest stat you could throw at me. There is so much that goes into that stat it is borderline useless to gauge a player by that stat on such a team sport.

Marner plays against top line? Because 34 is typically on the ice too. Also, Willy plays against top lines too. Willy has also seen a decent amount of time with Matthews.

Killing penalties. For sure that’s a great reason to give millions! I wonder what Jamal Mayers would fetch on this theory. Great pk player!

His pts and 34 goals go hand in hand. He sure does get a ton of secondary assists. That is interesting about the primary assists thing. Where’s that stat: I’m legit curios of this was a one year thing or if he always posts the second most?

Nobody questions what a great creative offensive player Marner is and how smart he is at picking off pucks…at least I hope they don’t cause that’s dumb. I just don’t think he is millions of dollars better at offence that Willy. He’s not. Not even close to being Millions better.

Not sure “it’s a simple fact” regarding Mitch making his player last around him better. It’s not. I know this because I can state that it’s the players he plays with that make Mitch better and you can’t at all PROVE to me that I’m wrong. JT played with plugs and got a lot of points. He got a bit more with 16? How much does 16 make vs those plugs?

His next contract will be horrific.

Matthews Marner and a few others always put up decent point totals on playoffs. Well except Mitch with goals over his time in TO - the issue is he is absolutely terrified to make a play in playoffs when the space is gone and physicality picks up. He wilts and always will. Great offensive guy but a better asset to move.
- Big23Questions

I could easily refute these point by point but I think I'd rather just ask what the Red Wings would / should give up for Nylander.

If what you're saying is true, the deal starts with Seider + more.

I could easily refute these point by point but I think I'd rather just ask what the Red Wings would / should give up for Nylander.

If what you're saying is true, the deal starts with Seider + more.
- Rare_Jewel

Neither Nylander or Marner would get that.

Dumba to Arizona?
- GreatGigInTheSky

🐺 🦊 🐺 🦊 🐺 🦊 🐺 🦊 🐺 🔫

I could easily refute these point by point but I think I'd rather just ask what the Red Wings would / should give up for Nylander.

If what you're saying is true, the deal starts with Seider + more.
- Rare_Jewel

That's ridiculous. He can be a valuable commodity without requiring a young cornerstone defenceman + in return.

That's ridiculous. He can be a valuable commodity without requiring a young cornerstone defenceman + in return.
- joel878

Par for the course

This party sucks!

My approach to this Nylander vs Marner debate boils down to a simplistic personal take. Who would I be more afraid to see on another team playing against the Leafs.
For me it’s hands down, Marner.
But I like them both…a lot, as most hockey fans should.
- Woderwick

Take it from a guy who's cheering from an opposing team.

Nylander has annoyed me alot more with his timely goals than Marner ever did.

Now that's not saying Nylander is better than Marner.

But I know who hurt me more over the years.

The friend had a 97.

My idiot daughter only had a 96.
- Atomic Wedgie

I hate to say it but there were some much lower marks from minorities hat most likely took their spot.

My daughter got into UBC with a 93% average, her friend with a 92% average did not get in.

My daughter became friends with an aboriginal girl that got in with a 70% average who dropped out of school in April.

System is broken and there is no fix in sight in this politically correct world we live.

Besides that, I told my daughter that she has to trash an Canuck fans and remind them that Leafs are superior.

I could easily refute these point by point but I think I'd rather just ask what the Red Wings would / should give up for Nylander.

If what you're saying is true, the deal starts with Seider + more.
- Rare_Jewel

I’m sure you think you can refute this but I suspect it would be a lot of +\- and he’s a PK super star and the reporters live his selke game type arguments.

So the Wings wouldn’t trade for either. There is no planet any GM would trade MO for 16 or 88. This isn’t a Wings talk place so I’ll stop there but my god man - just let it go. They are both really good at offence. One just gets paid way too much for regular season play and way too much for a winger

No, I’m just saying that there’s a part of this fanbase hates Marner no matter what, and that’s it’s cult like.

You are nothing but dramatics, LOeL.

You try starting poop, then run behind Dozzer.

From what I can tell ppl hate when WE argue, that includes you, genius. So stop starting poop because we all know you do.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Easy snowflake. You can respond to the Marner bit without all this other drivel, that's okay too.

Runs behind Dozzer loool. Have a feeling he'd disagree with that statement. 😂😂😂

Par for the course
- jribout

Summertime brings out the best.

Dubas. Lou was with NYI and trying to get him to re-sign at that point. But he fired everyone Tavares was loyal to in the organisation and Dubas sold the idea of being a Leaf to him.
- GreatGigInTheSky

That’s right! I remember now thinking Lou was not thinking when he did that while trying to conceive there Captain to stay put. Regardless of that - awful contract to offer. Not because he doesn’t live up to it because he absolutely does and deserves his cash. Centre, vet, point per game, proven to play at high level for a long time. Problem is the NMC.

Personally, it’s one of the things I feel gets on the way of more movement around the league.

That's ridiculous. He can be a valuable commodity without requiring a young cornerstone defenceman + in return.
- joel878

Ya man absolute- those dmen don’t grow on trees eh