is this fact or opinion?
- hello it's me 2050

Will you give it a rest? Please.

For (frank) sake.

Will you give it a rest? Please.

For (frank) sake.
- MBFlyerfan

nothing to give a rest too. Nothing wrong with that post. No go complain like you usually do.

black hand will be back shortly

Is t it funny the obtuse fraud wants proof on seeler but throws his antidotes about coots being 50/50 to return and be good contract rest of term.

Of course with no proof

ZMac going to play with Giroux up north. I wonder if the Sens coach will use him in the top 6 for two months like Torts did.

On December 6th after 24 games of absurdly inflated usage, he had 8 points and Frost had 6, and the authentic fans were crowing about MF being a bust. Of course by the time the season ended Frost got all the way up to 46 points, while MacEwen managed 10 total.

He can play both spots but he has a higher upside at wing in my opinion. The Flyers should not be putting team need ahead of what is best for a young player individually.
- MJL

An example of that would Coots who was playing shutdown center for first the half decade of his career simply because the team had nobody else and he was good at it. That stunted his offensive growth. He got minimal power play time and minimal time with scoring wingers (don't really remember but i think his wingers were crap as the Flyers weren't very deep). On a better managed team where he wasn't pigeonholed into being "the shutdown guy" he is probably a better player than the Flyers saw in his 20s. The year after they traded Schenn and moved him up the lineup permanently he went from being a 30+ pt guy to 70+ point guy.

https://thehockeywriters....overdue-break-out-season/

Defensive Responsibility
When looking at the numbers, it’s easy to spot another reason why Couturier has yet to break out. In his six-year NHL career, he has never started in the offensive zone at even strength more than 43% of the time. Everyone is aware that his role is best suited as a shutdown center, but you can’t expect a player to play against top lines and start in his own zone at even strength 55 percent of the time and produce offensively.

Couturier was being used as the 2C for three seasons before Schenn left in 2017.

https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL

He actually scored at a higher rate at ES in those three seasons than any Flyer but Voracek.

After last years performance they’d be stupid to switch him. Besides looking at the C position who exactly will take his place?
- landros 2

It never hurt his development in college. Just made him more versatile. I think he is valuable both as a center or wing. Depends on the need.

Center is a more responsible position. His smarts and defensive prowess make him effective here. Yet, on the wing he is strong on the board battles. I think he needs to get better on face offs (over 50% on the draw) so that they can use him deep in there zone more where his good defensive abilities can be utilized if he plays center.

This is very debatable as to center or wing. The fact that he can be somewhat effective to the point where we can debate this is a testament to he’s flexibility.

It never hurt his development in college. Just made him more versatile. I think he is valuable both as a center or wing. Depends on the need.

Center is a more responsible position. His smarts and defensive prowess make him effective here. Yet, on the wing he is strong on the board battles. I think he needs to get better on face offs (over 50% on the draw) so that they can use him deep in there zone more where his good defensive abilities can be utilized if he plays center.

This is very debatable as to center or wing. The fact that he can be somewhat effective to the point where we can debate this is a testament to he’s flexibility.
- peesinwind

With his defensive ability, if he can increase his scoring rate significantly, then he could be a hell of a center. I just don't see the puck skills to be a distributor of the puck. Nor the shot quality to be a goal scoring shooting center. He best offensive attributes are his ability on the forecheck as F1 and getting to the net for crash plays and rebounds. Although is a small sample, he scored at a much higher rate playing wing then he did at center. Keep in mind that he scored at a pedestrian rate playing center at ES playing up the lineup. If he ultimately becomes a 3rd line center, he'll be playing in situations less conducive to offense with lesser talented linemates. What will happen to his scoring rate then? I'm not interested in having an archaic checking 3rd line.

There are plenty of quotes of Fletcher saying that there is interest in Seeler. There are no quotes of Fletcher stating that a team has to overpay or "knock our socks off" to get Seeler. If the latter exists, link to it and I'll be glad to look at it. There is no credible reports that the Flyers were made a good offer for Seeler and they turned it down. If it exists, link to it and I'll be glad to look at it. In order for it to be mismanagement, those offers have to actually be present.
- MJL

The only reports of "overpay for Seeler" were fans in these blogs claiming might as well keep him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. He's too good as a "top" 5th or 6th dman to let go for picks.

ZMac going to play with Giroux up north. I wonder if the Sens coach will use him in the top 6 for two months like Torts did.

On December 6th after 24 games of absurdly inflated usage, he had 8 points and Frost had 6, and the authentic fans were crowing about MF being a bust. Of course by the time the season ended Frost got all the way up to 46 points, while MacEwen managed 10 total.
- Feanor

Where do you think Hathaway is going to play?

Couturier was being used as the 2C for three seasons before Schenn left in 2017.

https://www.naturalstattr...ines=single&draftteam=ALL

He actually scored at a higher rate at ES in those three seasons than any Flyer but Voracek.
- Feanor

I thought Giroux and Schenn were the top 2 Centers those years. I know there were times where Giroux played wing but i'm pretty sure Giroux and Schenn played 1C and 2C the majority when everyone was healthy (not that everyone was always healthy).

The only reports of "overpay for Seeler" were fans in these blogs claiming might as well keep him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. He's too good as a "top" 5th or 6th dman to let go for picks.
- Aaron_85

I don't recall that. I recall fans wanting him traded for whatever asset they could get.

There are plenty of quotes of Fletcher saying that there is interest in Seeler. There are no quotes of Fletcher stating that a team has to overpay or "knock our socks off" to get Seeler. If the latter exists, link to it and I'll be glad to look at it. There is no credible reports that the Flyers were made a good offer for Seeler and they turned it down. If it exists, link to it and I'll be glad to look at it. In order for it to be mismanagement, those offers have to actually be present.
- MJL

overpay, blown away, knock your socks off. the info was provided and was reported on multiple times by numerous nhl sources. we even had this discussion when it all first came out. Bill even talks about the overpayment, dimarco and friedmen report on the blown away or knock your socks off. they all have access to fletcher.

a no, there doesn't have to be an offer for something to be mismanaged.

Will you give it a rest? Please.

For (frank) sake.
- MBFlyerfan

Just ignore the losers. They can't get enough of this place. It's the only place on the internet or in their lives they can feel like a "somebody". Truly pathetic bunch.

It's funny seeing people who "no longer needed this place" immediately come back after being banned. They never left.

The only reports of "overpay for Seeler" were fans in these blogs claiming might as well keep him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. He's too good as a "top" 5th or 6th dman to let go for picks.
- Aaron_85

friedman and dimarco had quotes, from the articles i googled quick today. and Bill had it in his blog as well.

i would've taken a 6th rounder for him.

I don't recall that. I recall fans wanting him traded for whatever asset they could get.
- MJL

I recall that a bunch. I believe you were one of them actually. Told me I was wrong to suggest it because "he's a good pro." and "you need that type of player for rebuilds".

Honestly, if MM is anywhere close to advertised on the offensive side, I could personally care less if he even lifts a finger on the defensive side. If he does it's a bonus... I'm not gonna knock him if he doesn't.
- Tomahawk

I don’t expect he’ll be good defensively. Inconsistent at best. I expect he’ll make some effort though if only for getting him more ice time. Like most elite players, he’ll frustrate with turnovers but if he’s as advertised, he’ll draw a slew of penalties and do some amazing stuff.

black hand will be back shortly
- hello it's me 2050

I agree with that. But I said he’d be back by the 4th and the Flyers would never draft Michkov. I don’t know jack.

I thought Giroux and Schenn were the top 2 Centers those years. I know there were times where Giroux played wing but i'm pretty sure Giroux and Schenn played 1C and 2C the majority when everyone was healthy (not that everyone was always healthy).
- Flyers_01

Nope, Schenn mostly played wing. He also averaged about a minute less ice time at ES than Couturier did. Giroux didn't switch to wing till 17-18, when Couturier became the 1C.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ceoffs&page=0&pageSize=50

Faceoffs
Giroux - 5,507
Couturier - 3,501
Bellemare - 2,171
Schenn - 794
Laughton - 691

Just ignore the losers. They can't get enough of this place. It's the only place on the internet or in their lives they can feel like a "somebody". Truly pathetic bunch.

It's funny seeing people who "no longer needed this place" immediately come back after being banned. They never left.

- Aaron_85

Glad to see you drop by. How we doing today?

very disruptive and disrespectful in the bold. Can that be considered flaming or trolling?

As long as he’s responsible with the puck then he’s a guy you let create. There’s spots on the ice any team will want him when they don’t have the puck….it’s really not that hard. A lot of high end guys really aren’t bad defensively for the simple reason they have the puck more than the opponent. You don’t have to worry about the defensive side of the puck when your always on the offensive with the puck.
- landros 2

McD, OV, Pat Kane, Kucherov, EK, Panarin, MacKinnon, Pasta, Malkin.... some guys you can just shrug off that they don't play defense because their other contributions are just so overwhelmingly strong.

I recall that a bunch. I believe you were one of them actually. Told me I was wrong to suggest it because "he's a good pro." and "you need that type of player for rebuilds".
- Aaron_85

Okay! LOL. What I actually said it that if they would get a good offer, then by all means move him. Which I never thought would happen. The most likely offer for a 6/7 average tweener defenseman would be something like a 6th round pick, future considerations or a middling low level prospect. If so, then there is more value in keeping him around as he is the kind of player you want on your roster as a rebuilding team. The extra year on his deal at the time also limited the market.

I agree with that. But I said he’d be back by the 4th and the Flyers would never draft Michkov. I don’t know jack.
- Minnyhock

within the next 3 weeks. Fact. Not opinion.

McD, OV, Pat Kane, Kucherov, EK, Panarin, MacKinnon, Pasta, Malkin.... some guys you can just shrug off that they don't play defense because their other contributions are just so overwhelmingly strong.
- Tomahawk

"You'll never win Cups with guys like McDavid, Ovechkin, Kane or MacKinnon"
- John Tortorella