Bill Meltzer: Flyers-OTT Wrap, Phantoms Update

Lappy really had the boys ready to go last night.

The Phantoms have a stacked roster this season, so if he can't get them into the playoffs and winning rounds he needs to be replaced. The Flyers have obviously guaranteed him a job for life, but it doesn't have to be as head coach of the AHL team.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers-OTT Wrap, Phantoms Update
- bmeltzer

What is your thoughts/opinion on the juggling of Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae into the lineup? What would you do?

Also when are the flyers going to realize that Rocky is not the coach to turn this PP around and make it at least somewhat respectable? Where is the accountability?

Do you think the announcers have been giving some instructions to make sure they use the 4th line as a constant taking point?

The defense on this team may just be one of the worst group of defensemen EVER assembled on an NHL roster. There probably isn't a legit #1 or #2 defender on this roster. Perhaps York and Sanheim are #3 or 4 types. I was hoping Adrae could be a surprise answer for this group, but that is looking less likely. He was getting man handled by that Sens forecheck yesterday from what I saw (just the first period). Another long season incoming and I'm getting fed up! So damn sick of the other Philly teams being good while the Flyers suck. Thanks for nuttin! Gonna start rooting for da Hawks and Conner Bedard! That kid is amazing for just being 18 years old. Perhaps he could show Frosty how to actually get engaged in the action as a center at the NHL level. Eh what?

Gg

Bill why scratch two of four rookies during a so called rebuild? . If these guys are on the team they should play? It’s not like they’d be replacing elite skilled players. Thoughts?

Lappy really had the boys ready to go last night.

The Phantoms have a stacked roster this season, so if he can't get them into the playoffs and winning rounds he needs to be replaced. The Flyers have obviously guaranteed him a job for life, but it doesn't have to be as head coach of the AHL team.
- Feanor

The Phantoms’ 4th line played well and that’s what’s really important here.

What is your thoughts/opinion on the juggling of Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae into the lineup? What would you do?

Also when are the flyers going to realize that Rocky is not the coach to turn this PP around and make it at least somewhat respectable? Where is the accountability?

Do you think the announcers have been giving some instructions to make sure they use the 4th line as a constant taking point?
- hello it's me 2050

I found it cringy and embarrassing the way they talked about the 4th line. I caught the pre game against the Jackets and the way they fawned over the nickname was just so embarrassing. They all looked like really bad actors

What is your thoughts/opinion on the juggling of Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae into the lineup? What would you do?

Also when are the flyers going to realize that Rocky is not the coach to turn this PP around and make it at least somewhat respectable? Where is the accountability?

Do you think the announcers have been giving some instructions to make sure they use the 4th line as a constant taking point?
- hello it's me 2050

I'm fine with Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae swapping in/out in the first two games. I don't want that to go on for very long, however. If you aren't going to sit a vet yet, then make a decision between these players and have the other get ample minutes with LV for awhile. I wish Torts had acknowledged it was pre-planned and hadn't answered with "because I felt like it" when asked about the splitting of the first two games but that's Torts after a bad loss.

Rocky isn't the problem here. The Flyers all-time worst/2nd worst (depending on whether you count the "unofficial" stats from 1967-68 before the NHL officially tracked PPs) season on the power play was 2021-22. That was a season before Rocky was hired. They were a few percentage points higher last season -- still near the bottom -- but modestly better. But, fundamentally, I don't think it's a coaching issue. And despite the way/role he played as a player, Rocky isn't a dinosaur. The players like working with him, even though he doesn't sugarcoat things. They didn't like working with Michel Therrien, and Torch was only there holding a place until there was a new head coach.

The announcers are not "instructed" about who/what to talk about. But they base a lot of their on-air stuff on their exclusive prep time with the head coach and his narratives filter largely into their narratives (hardly unusual in sports and far from being just a Flyers thing). Torts openly loves that Deslauriers-Poehling-Hathaway line, won't break them up willingly, and so far uses them to start periods and skate more shifts than your average 4th line. He talks them up to all of the media and that includes the broadcasters.As such, it becomes a major part of the narrative. My own view is to dial it down a bit with all the "PHD Line" stuff -- they aren't going to win you or lose you games if deployed as a typical 4th line and not as some "super 4th line" -- but it is what it is.  

Bill why scratch two of four rookies during a so called rebuild? . If these guys are on the team they should play? It’s not like they’d be replacing elite skilled players. Thoughts?
- wbroudy

1) Foerster and Brink have their own flaws, too. Neither is an "elite" player but yet neither belongs on a 4th line, either. So what winger in the top nine are you taking out? Putting Laughton at LW4 and sitting Deslauriers isn't on the table right now, although I actually think a Laughton-Poeling-Hathaway regular 4th line would be pretty damn good and allow you to get both Foerster and Brink into the top nine. But I don't get a vote.

2) "Play the kids" isn't a panacea during a rebuild. Remember in 2006-07? How much did the NHL time for then well-regarded but clearly over their heads prospects such as Picard and Ruzicka do for them? It served to hurt them more than help. Not saying that will happen to Brink/Foerster or Andrae/Zamula but you can't force it. They're ready or they're not ready. rebuild or not.

I'm fine with Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae swapping in/out in the first two games. I don't want that to go on for very long, however. If you aren't going to sit a vet yet, then make a decision between these players and have the other get ample minutes with LV for awhile. I wish Torts had acknowledged it was pre-planned and hadn't answered with "because I felt like it" when asked about the splitting of the first two games but that's Torts after a bad loss.

Rocky isn't the problem here. The Flyers all-time worst/2nd worst (depending on whether you count the "unofficial" stats from 1967-68 before the NHL officially tracked PPs) season on the power play was 2021-22. That was a season before Rocky was hired. They were a few percentage points higher last season -- still near the bottom -- but modestly better. But, fundamentally, I don't think it's a coaching issue. And despite the way/role he played as a player, Rocky isn't a dinosaur. The players like working with him, even though he doesn't sugarcoat things. They didn't like working with Michel Therrien, and Torch was only there holding a place until there was a new head coach.

The announcers are not "instructed" about who/what to talk about. But they base a lot of their on-air stuff on their exclusive prep time with the head coach and his narratives filter largely into their narratives (hardly unusual in sports and far from being just a Flyers thing). Torts openly loves that Deslauriers-Poehling-Hathaway line, won't break them up willingly, and so far uses them to start periods and skate more shifts than your average 4th line. He talks them up to all of the media and that includes the broadcasters.As such, it becomes a major part of the narrative. My own view is to dial it down a bit with all the "PHD Line" stuff -- they aren't going to win you or lose you games if deployed as a typical 4th line and not as some "super 4th line" -- but it is what it is.  
- bmeltzer

Rocky imo is part of the problem. Thanks for the response.

All summer, everyone wanted the kids to play, and now we can’t crucify them for their mishaps. Gonna be growing pains no doubt. Let’s be a little more patient than two games in. I don’t think anyone had an overly poor game, we just watch a team that was more skilled, faster, and just a lot further along at this point. Hence the lopsided play, shots and attack zone time. Without team speed overall, hard to drive play when losing puck races and not having the puck much.

Hi Bill, do you know if there was any interest from the Flyers on claiming guys like Raphael Lavoie, Grigori Denisenko or Cal Foote from waivers? Did the Flyers have a shot at them? Were these other teams ahead of them on the waiver claims list? Or just no space on the roster/cap? Thanks.

As a rebuilding team, I would have loved to claim at least one of those players.

1) Foerster and Brink have their own flaws, too. Neither is an "elite" player but yet neither belongs on a 4th line, either. So what winger in the top nine are you taking out? Putting Laughton at LW4 and sitting Deslauriers isn't on the table right now, although I actually think a Laughton-Poeling-Hathaway regular 4th line would be pretty damn good and allow you to get both Foerster and Brink into the top nine. But I don't get a vote.

2) "Play the kids" isn't a panacea during a rebuild. Remember in 2006-07? How much did the NHL time for then well-regarded but clearly over their heads prospects such as Picard and Ruzicka do for them? It served to hurt them more than help. Not saying that will happen to Brink/Foerster or Andrae/Zamula but you can't force it. They're ready or they're not ready. rebuild or not.
- bmeltzer

Agreed! I think many folks on here seem to miss the fact that you need kids that are actually ready to compete at the NHL level. I think the Flyers made the right choices with the 4 kids that they kept up with the big team at the beginning of this season. Now they have to prove that they belong. You can't just keep playing the kids every night IF THEY AREN'T READY. It does them no good to get curb stomped every night cause they aren't ready, but this mantra falls on deaf ears of many on here.

The defense on this team may just be one of the worst group of defensemen EVER assembled on an NHL roster. There probably isn't a legit #1 or #2 defender on this roster. Perhaps York and Sanheim are #3 or 4 types. I was hoping Adrae could be a surprise answer for this group, but that is looking less likely. He was getting man handled by that Sens forecheck yesterday from what I saw (just the first period). Another long season incoming and I'm getting fed up! So damn sick of the other Philly teams being good while the Flyers suck. Thanks for nuttin! Gonna start rooting for da Hawks and Conner Bedard! That kid is amazing for just being 18 years old. Perhaps he could show Frosty how to actually get engaged in the action as a center at the NHL level. Eh what?
- Phillywhiteout

but Chicago tanked for Bedard and I thought you would root for any team that tanks....as for the rest of your post

youre a fool

Maybe its me though I crack up every time a see a grown man wearing a football jersey with a hoodie on underneath at the super market.

also the usual park a mile away plenty of spots. Someone still parks right next to you.

What is your thoughts/opinion on the juggling of Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae into the lineup? What would you do?

Also when are the flyers going to realize that Rocky is not the coach to turn this PP around and make it at least somewhat respectable? Where is the accountability?

Do you think the announcers have been giving some instructions to make sure they use the 4th line as a constant taking point?
- hello it's me 2050

Of course they have - no one in their right mind would glorify a fourth line like they are

but Chicago tanked for Bedard and I thought you would root for any team that tanks....as for the rest of your post

youre a fool
- THE BLACK HAND

I love how you love to criticize everyone else's comments on here yet you NEVER make any comments of your own. Typical internet tough guy living in Mommy's basement.

I love how you love to criticize everyone else's comments on here yet you NEVER make any comments of your own. Typical internet tough guy living in Mommy's basement.
- Phillywhiteout

keep deflecting, jackass

Rocky imo is part of the problem. Thanks for the response.
- hello it's me 2050

Rocky was in charge of the PP and defense for the Sharks. Ferraro and Knyzhov made strides on defense while he was there.

Thompson made some innovations on the PP with the breakout. SJ finished 29th on the PP. But they were middle of the pack in shots generated, scoring chances and goals per 60 on the PP. I guess he wasn’t successful but the talent wasn’t great. He’s pretty well respected around the league. But that could be a euphemism for mediocrity.

1) Foerster and Brink have their own flaws, too. Neither is an "elite" player but yet neither belongs on a 4th line, either. So what winger in the top nine are you taking out? Putting Laughton at LW4 and sitting Deslauriers isn't on the table right now, although I actually think a Laughton-Poeling-Hathaway regular 4th line would be pretty damn good and allow you to get both Foerster and Brink into the top nine. But I don't get a vote.

2) "Play the kids" isn't a panacea during a rebuild. Remember in 2006-07? How much did the NHL time for then well-regarded but clearly over their heads prospects such as Picard and Ruzicka do for them? It served to hurt them more than help. Not saying that will happen to Brink/Foerster or Andrae/Zamula but you can't force it. They're ready or they're not ready. rebuild or not.
- bmeltzer

Why not? Like you said, moving down Laughton makes that a stronger line and then you have both Brink and Foerster in the top 9. Why are they married to Deslauriers? They have plenty of guys that can fight already in the lineup (Laughton, Seeler, Hathaway, Risto when healthy) and it's not like having him in the lineup stops other teams from taking runs at guys. Didn't see the game but saw in your write-up Seeler felt the need to stand up for Foerster after a hit. I just don't understand why they feel the need to continue to play this guy at the expense of developing one of their younger forwards. Same with Staal. Torts said before the season that Staal would sit at times. First two games and he is already averaging 18+ minutes. Maybe I'm jumping ahead a bit, but it was Zamula, not Staal cycled out for Andrae. Isn't it time to see what they have in Zamula? Cycling rookies in and out of the lineup is not conducive to anyone succeeding. Either send Andrae and Brink down or play the kids and sit the vets that have no future here.

keep deflecting, jackass
- THE BLACK HAND

Where's Alf when we need him to ban you for life again? God you must be a loser in real life. Now go away kid your Mommy is calling you! And thanks! Eh what?

I'm fine with Brink/Foerster and Zamula/Andrae swapping in/out in the first two games. I don't want that to go on for very long, however. If you aren't going to sit a vet yet, then make a decision between these players and have the other get ample minutes with LV for awhile. I wish Torts had acknowledged it was pre-planned and hadn't answered with "because I felt like it" when asked about the splitting of the first two games but that's Torts after a bad loss.

Rocky isn't the problem here. The Flyers all-time worst/2nd worst (depending on whether you count the "unofficial" stats from 1967-68 before the NHL officially tracked PPs) season on the power play was 2021-22. That was a season before Rocky was hired. They were a few percentage points higher last season -- still near the bottom -- but modestly better. But, fundamentally, I don't think it's a coaching issue. And despite the way/role he played as a player, Rocky isn't a dinosaur. The players like working with him, even though he doesn't sugarcoat things. They didn't like working with Michel Therrien, and Torch was only there holding a place until there was a new head coach.

The announcers are not "instructed" about who/what to talk about. But they base a lot of their on-air stuff on their exclusive prep time with the head coach and his narratives filter largely into their narratives (hardly unusual in sports and far from being just a Flyers thing). Torts openly loves that Deslauriers-Poehling-Hathaway line, won't break them up willingly, and so far uses them to start periods and skate more shifts than your average 4th line. He talks them up to all of the media and that includes the broadcasters.As such, it becomes a major part of the narrative. My own view is to dial it down a bit with all the "PHD Line" stuff -- they aren't going to win you or lose you games if deployed as a typical 4th line and not as some "super 4th line" -- but it is what it is.  
- bmeltzer

It looks like Jones and Briere are committed to a rebuild and Torts is the counterbalance. Torts has to pay lip service to the rebuild but he just wants to win now. He can half ass it by doling out some ice to youth to appease Jones and Briere. Torts can minimize accountability by pointing to winning enough in a rebuild.

It looks like Jones and Briere are committed to a rebuild and Torts is the counterbalance. Torts has to pay lip service to the rebuild but he just wants to win now. He can half ass it by doling out some ice to youth to appease Jones and Briere. Torts can minimize accountability by pointing to winning enough in a rebuild.
- Minnyhock

not so sure this true. then those 2 are puppets.

Why not? Like you said, moving down Laughton makes that a stronger line and then you have both Brink and Foerster in the top 9. Why are they married to Deslauriers? They have plenty of guys that can fight already in the lineup (Laughton, Seeler, Hathaway, Risto when healthy) and it's not like having him in the lineup stops other teams from taking runs at guys. Didn't see the game but saw in your write-up Seeler felt the need to stand up for Foerster after a hit. I just don't understand why they feel the need to continue to play this guy at the expense of developing one of their younger forwards. Same with Staal. Torts said before the season that Staal would sit at times. First two games and he is already averaging 18+ minutes. Maybe I'm jumping ahead a bit, but it was Zamula, not Staal cycled out for Andrae. Isn't it time to see what they have in Zamula? Cycling rookies in and out of the lineup is not conducive to anyone succeeding. Either send Andrae and Brink down or play the kids and sit the vets that have no future here.
- TobyFlenderson

If ND is not in the Lineup you can not have a PhD line - and that marketing is extremely important to the rebuild