4 out of 5 now. Right back to their old ways. Ristolainen was a game time decision for game 1, here we are 9 games in and he’s in witness protection. Same old poop.
- PLindbergh31

Reminds me of how the Flyers handled Ellis's injury the first year.

Career faceoff numbers

Cates - 107 GP, 470 FOW - 716 FOL = 39.6%

Frost - 161 GP, 728 FOW - 844 FOL = 46.3%

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ffWins&page=0&pageSize=50
- Feanor

Coots didn't crack 50% FOs until his 6th season.

FO's are equal parts skill and equal parts developing relationships with and earning leeway from the linemen to cheat.

4 out of 5 now. Right back to their old ways. Ristolainen was a game time decision for game 1, here we are 9 games in and he’s in witness protection. Same old poop.
- PLindbergh31

When's is the annual 10+ game winless streak scheduled for?

Career faceoff numbers

Cates - 107 GP, 470 FOW - 716 FOL = 39.6%

Frost - 161 GP, 728 FOW - 844 FOL = 46.3%

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ffWins&page=0&pageSize=50
- Feanor

lmao, last year was cates first year at center. going against others top line. he will improve in the faceoff circle, and has done better this year. no he didn't do well against the canes.

but neither did any of the centers. how did coots do compared to how he normally does?

Reminds me of how the Flyers handled Ellis's injury the first year.
- Flyers_01

Well, with Ellis he actually played in games.

With Risto they are being careful by not having him suit up, even if it means playing a AHL guy on defense.

lmao, last year was cates first year at center. going against others top line. he will improve in the faceoff circle, and has done better this year. no he didn't do well against the canes.

but neither did any of the centers. how did coots do compared to how he normally does?
- Peter Richards

One game faceoff samples are just about meaningless. No one without an absurd agenda to push would have brought faceoffs up in this thread at all.

It was ridiculous to sit a player like Frost for six games in a rebuilding season.
- Feanor

I was fine with a game…a coaches decision and we don’t see a lot of what goes on beyond the games…but I agree. Last night it took frost a bit to get going but he made several skilled plays in the last half of the game that maybe on 2 or 3 others on the team are capable of. I’m not sure how a team that lacks elite skill can sit one of its most skilled guys for that long.

Coots didn't crack 50% FOs until his 6th season.

FO's are equal parts skill and equal parts developing relationships with and earning leeway from the linemen to cheat.
- Tomahawk

Yup.

Up to age 23, Laughton was a 45.5% faceoff guy in 109 GP. Since then he's at 50.8% in 419 GP.

Well, with Ellis he actually played in games.

With Risto they are being careful by not having him suit up, even if it means playing a AHL guy on defense.
- Feanor

True. More like Cam then, Cam didn't play any games and they didn't announce he was out for the year until Dec.

The Flyers have so many examples it's hard to pick just one.

Cates went 1-9 last night. He was way worse than Frost last season (39% vs 46%). He's in the low-40's again so far this season. Why no complaints about his viability as a C?

Like Torts you're holding Frost to some ideal standard and not others.
- Tomahawk

Cates never played center in his life before last season. What's Frost's excuse? The entire team was bad on faceoffs last night, but overall I see Cates improving as a center, but I don't see Frost improving in this one key area.

One game faceoff samples are just about meaningless. No one without an absurd agenda to push would have brought faceoffs up in this thread at all.
- Feanor

i wasn't the one talking about it on the first page. You can ignore the rest about cates that i pointed out. as i stated one game didn't matter as they all struggled, it happens. don't know what else you're talking about. most centers struggling in the faceoff circle their first couple of years.

I was fine with a game…a coaches decision and we don’t see a lot of what goes on beyond the games…but I agree. Last night it took frost a bit to get going but he made several skilled plays in the last half of the game that maybe on 2 or 3 others on the team are capable of. I’m not sure how a team that lacks elite skill can sit one of its most skilled guys for that long.
- landros 2

If Torts had just scratched Frost for Vancouver, and then he played like that against Edmonton, Torts would look like a genius. Instead, he looks like a buffoon. Eight games of the "PHD" line gave the team nothing at all, and as soon as Hockey Ops yelled at him enough to get Frost back in, a 4th line featuring Laughton scores a goal, and the scoring line with Frost at center was the most dangerous line on the ice.

As expected he was rusty to start but got better as the game went along. You can see the skill he has and why he needs to be in the lineup. The best pure playmaker on the team.
- MJL

show how far away they really are

Cates never played center in his life before last season. What's Frost's excuse? The entire team was bad on faceoffs last night, but overall I see Cates improving as a center, but I don't see Frost improving in this one key area.
- jd250

You still don't understand sample size.

Cates never played center in his life before last season. What's Frost's excuse? The entire team was bad on faceoffs last night, but overall I see Cates improving as a center, but I don't see Frost improving in this one key area.
- jd250

You still don't understand sample size.

For the Flyers, Morgan Frost was 6-for-20, Sean Couturier was 6-for-16, Noah Cates was 1-for-9, and Scott Laughton was 2-for-5.

Once again Frost get's held to a higher standard than everyone else. Frost needs to improve but how about Noah Cates? Cates skates on criticism?

The Flyers sucked at faceoffs, pretty much every Flyer that took a faceoff. The team needs to practice them, not just Frost.
- Flyers_01

bring in joel otto

I wonder also. There was zero justification for scratching Frost even for a single game. Doing so screams incompetence. If Briere was onboard, that's a serious problem in my opinion.
- MJL

It's a conspiracy .. everyone is against him! He might be a MAGA and we just don't know it

Cates never played center in his life before last season. What's Frost's excuse?
- jd250

He doesn't need an excuse for being a career 46% faceoff guy at age 24. That's extremely normal for a young center, as anyone who has followed Couturier and Laughton's development would know.

What's your excuse for acting like faceoffs are a big issue for Frost after last night's game when objectively he's way better at them than Cates who just went 1 for 9 on draws.

It was ridiculous to sit a player like Frost for six games in a rebuilding season.
- Feanor

a man in his position can not afford to be made to look ridiculous.

Cates never played center in his life before last season. What's Frost's excuse? The entire team was bad on faceoffs last night, but overall I see Cates improving as a center, but I don't see Frost improving in this one key area.
- jd250

Wingers take FO's all the time, so it's not like Cates never took a draw before last season.

ALL young players struggle in FO's early in their careers and Frost has been better than most of equal experience.

Coots didn't crack 50% FOs until his 6th season.

FO's are equal parts skill and equal parts developing relationships with and earning leeway from the linemen to cheat.
- Tomahawk

I feel like Giroux was the same way. You could even see how much he cheated and leeway he was given as he became a veteran and one of the more dominant faceoff winners. I swear I've seen him take some faceoffs left-handed. He hasn't been below 53% since 10-11 and still takes a ton of faceoffs despite not playing center anymore.

If Torts had just scratched Frost for Vancouver, and then he played like that against Edmonton, Torts would look like a genius. Instead, he looks like a buffoon. Eight games of the "PHD" line gave the team nothing at all, and as soon as Hockey Ops yelled at him enough to get Frost back in, a 4th line featuring Laughton scores a goal, and the scoring line with Frost at center was the most dangerous line on the ice.
- Feanor

Maybe Bill can update us on how the Flyers league leading highly paid "analytics dept" is being used this year and how that relates to the Flyers lineup decisions.

I'm still not sure what they are being used for other than an expensive PR talking point.

Andersen made a ton of huge saves. Hart as well. Flyers could have scored a bunch more goals. Back to back games where they're right in it against an actual contender and left with no points. Remember this is a rebuild. So it's actually better they're losing some of these games. Appreciating the hustle overall from the Flyers. The last thing the Flyers want to do is finish outside of a playoff spot and outside of a top 10 draft pick.

It's a conspiracy .. everyone is against him! He might be a MAGA and we just don't know it
- jd250

Nah, it's not a conspiracy. It's just incompetence from an out to pasture head coach. A GM who apparently is either in agreement or doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. Either way it was bush league.

Wingers take FO's all the time, so it's not like Cates never took a draw before last season.

ALL young players struggle in FO's early in their careers and Frost has been better than most of equal experience.
- Tomahawk

And some HoF centers never get good at faceoffs, like Malkin, who's at 44.7% for his career.