I feel like Giroux was the same way. You could even see how much he cheated and leeway he was given as he became a veteran and one of the more dominant faceoff winners. I swear I've seen him take some faceoffs left-handed. He hasn't been below 53% since 10-11 and still takes a ton of faceoffs despite not playing center anymore.
- TobyFlenderson

Yeah, people forget a lot of the linemen are pretty young and they want to earn the respect of the players as well... and guys like Bergy, G, Toews, Pavs, Sid... you cash in personal capital when you choose to throw guys of that stature out of the dot. So those dudes get away with A LOT.

Career faceoff numbers

Cates - 107 GP, 470 FOW - 716 FOL = 39.6%

Frost - 161 GP, 728 FOW - 844 FOL = 46.3%

https://www.nhl.com/stats...ffWins&page=0&pageSize=50
- Feanor

Why do we insist on comparing Frost, who has played center his entire career, to Cates who just started playing center last season? Why not compare Frost with Couturier? I mean that to me is a much more accurate comparison.

Andersen made a ton of huge saves. Hart as well. Flyers could have scored a bunch more goals. Back to back games where they're right in it against an actual contender and left with no points. Remember this is a rebuild. So it's actually better they're losing some of these games. Appreciating the hustle overall from the Flyers. The last thing the Flyers want to do is finish outside of a playoff spot and outside of a top 10 draft pick.
- Pixote Andolini

Foerster was so close to a PPG.

And some HoF centers never get good at faceoffs, like Malkin, who's at 44.7% for his career.
- Feanor

Clearly Malkin has never been a viable C.

Why do we insist on comparing Frost, who has played center his entire career, to Cates who just started playing center last season? Why not compare Frost with Couturier? I mean that to me is a much more accurate comparison.
- jd250

Where Cates started out is irrelevant if the coach is going to use him exclusively at center going forward. But if you want to compare Frost to Couturier, cool. At the age of 24 after 350 GP, Couturier had a career FO% of 47.6.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...WinPct&page=0&pageSize=50

One thing I noticed in the post game presser with Torts last night was when he was asked a softball question from Sam Charchidi about Frost's play, Torts said he needed to watch the tape and could not evaluate him. Really? I mean, Torts is down at ice level. He could plainly see that Frost struggled with his timing and chemistry the first two periods but in the 3rd really drove a lot of offense. Tort's couldn't even say that? I'm afraid it's personal at this point, Torts just does not like Frost. I don't think the kid is ever going to get a fair deal here.

Why do we insist on comparing Frost, who has played center his entire career, to Cates who just started playing center last season? Why not compare Frost with Couturier? I mean that to me is a much more accurate comparison.
- jd250

Okay, what was Couturier's FO% 160 games or so into his NHL career?

Clearly Malkin has never been a viable C.
- Tomahawk

Cups are for losers.

Give me a non-playoff team with four centers above 50% on faceoffs, and I'm happy.

That’s the problem with this team being around a .500 club. While it’s entertaining and fun and we should never root for our teams to lose, it turns the entire narrative of this so-called rebuild on its head. This team is not and will not be a Cup contender in the immediate future. While guys like Laughton have value in mentoring young players, as much as it hurts, some of these fan favorites have much more value to the Flyers long term if they can bring in prospects and draft picks.
- mikeyo27

Agreed, but the Flyers favor the former thinking. Probably because in the back of their minds they will never fully enter a rebuild....

One thing I noticed in the post game presser with Torts last night was when he was asked a softball question from Sam Charchidi about Frost's play, Torts said he needed to watch the tape and could not evaluate him. Really? I mean, Torts is down at ice level. He could plainly see that Frost struggled with his timing and chemistry the first two periods but in the 3rd really drove a lot of offense. Tort's couldn't even say that? I'm afraid it's personal at this point, Torts just does not like Frost. I don't think the kid is ever going to get a fair deal here.
- jd250

Just figuring that out?

Where Cates started out is irrelevant if the coach is going to use him exclusively at center going forward. But if you want to compare Frost to Couturier, cool. At the age of 24 after 350 GP, Couturier had a career FO% of 47.6.

https://www.nhl.com/stats...WinPct&page=0&pageSize=50
- Feanor

You need to check your facts. From the ages of 22-24 years old here is an accurate comparison:

Couts Frost
22 48.4 48.4
23 48.6 45.8
24 55.1 29.3

Couts was trending way up and by age 24 was one of the best faceoff centers in the league. Frost is trending the wrong way!

You need to check your facts. From the ages of 22-24 years old here is an accurate comparison:

Couts Frost
22 48.4 48.4
23 48.6 45.8
24 55.1 29.3

Couts was trending way up and by age 24 was one of the best faceoff centers in the league. Frost is trending the wrong way!
- jd250

Still don't understand sample size. How many NHL games had Couturier played by the time he was 22 versus Frost? How about at 24?

Still don't understand sample size.
- MJL

3 games is plenty!!

Wingers take FO's all the time, so it's not like Cates never took a draw before last season.

ALL young players struggle in FO's early in their careers and Frost has been better than most of equal experience.
- Tomahawk

I personally feel like face-offs are more of a team effort (unless you have a bergeron on your team). A team can actually win a faceoff that the centerman loses. You just have to be quick on the puck, which, of course, the Flyers are not....

I wonder if Laughton sat on the floor after the game in protest to his 4th line designation? We all know he wont stand for it.

He did, I'll give him credit. Frost was downright dazzling in the 3rd period. BUT .. if Frost is going to be a viable center in the NHL he has got to improve his FO%. You can practice faceoffs every day, whether you are in the lineup or not. Frost just is not improving in this area.
- jd250

Frost needs some muscle added to his frame, imo

You need to check your facts. From the ages of 22-24 years old here is an accurate comparison:

Couts - Frost
22 48.4 (82 GP) - 48.4 (55 GP)
23 48.6 (63 GP) - 45.8 (81 GP)
24 55.1 (66GP - 5th full NHL season) - 29.3 (3 GP - third full NHL season that has barely even started)

- jd250

Cates getting killed on faceoffs last night AND blowing the game with a horrible turnover in his own zone really got to you, huh.

Ill say it again. Noah Cates needs to play wing.
- MBFlyerfan

one of the best on the team getting to the boards, getting body position and coming away with the puck.

I think it is Brink.
- Peter Richards

I disagree. Frost has great vision. Brink is a better finisher than he is a playmaker.

Frost needs some muscle added to his frame, imo
- Bob Habib

already 195, he could add 3-5 but not sure that will be a big difference

Coots didn't crack 50% FOs until his 6th season.

FO's are equal parts skill and equal parts developing relationships with and earning leeway from the linemen to cheat.
- Tomahawk

And teammates doing their job to assist.

When's is the annual 10+ game winless streak scheduled for?
- Tomahawk

Might be in the process.

Cates getting killed on faceoffs last night AND blowing the game with a horrible turnover in his own zone really got to you, huh.
- Feanor

If Frost made that same play he would not be playing on Wednesday.

If Frost made that same play he would not be playing on Wednesday.
- mickel25

Is Frost playing on Wednesday?

The Canes are a decent faceoff team. They have a few guys above 50% on draws. Aho is around 49%.

We need to improve FO% as a team. But the Canes are a good faceoff team.

For me, I focus on the more important draws during a game. Frost won a 3rd offensive zone draw, but TK gave the puck away before Flyers could get set up. A few PP faceoffs were lost which kills any momentum.