Good points and enjoy the conversation. What issues have you seen unrelated to the d? It’s my belief that after long periods of poor team d in front of a goalie, they lose confidence and cheat for a pass feeling that their d won’t cover it. When you do that, you play too far back in your net and get beat on the shot. It spirals out of control. The d then don’t trust the goalie to make the save and try to block/ cover everything that high you can’t.

Conversely, when you trust the d, you are more confident in your reads and can step out to cut the angle on a shot putting more pressure on the shooter. Trust becomes contagious. D trusts tender, tender trusts d. My point being that while he’s not been perfect, the d in front of him has been horrible and many issues are traced back to this.
- Hextall271

He gives up very stoppable goals. He is inconsistent. Def agree in the bold.

I get the confidence thing though I am not huge believer in it. Hart knows the D isnt good. He just has to play his game. It shouldn't effect his confidence. Go about your business and control what you can. If his confidence is shaken then maybe he is not all that mentally strong. It shouldn't effect his game as much as you may think imo.

Unless a coaching staff feels that a young player is mentally fighting it or is heavily fatigued and it is leaking into his game. I don't believe that any young player should sit. Including Cates. Ups and downs are simply part of it for young players. Modern day coaching is working with young players and coaching them through the rough patches. Not sitting them out punitively to say, you've got to play harder! Now if a player is dogging it out there and being lazy, that's fine but I don't think that is the case with Cates or any of the Flyers young players. Zamula makes an ill-advised pinch in a game that leads to a transition goal against and he sits. He must be punished! Lets call up Mete and play him instead! Ridiculous. The issue with Cates is what was always apparent. Offensively, he is not a center. If his D game slips a little, his effectiveness at center declines.
- MJL

The fact that they decided to play Mete over Zamula is asinine. Does not bode well for him once Staal is back and healthy. Brink should not be sitting more than one game either.

Unless a coaching staff feels that a young player is mentally fighting it or is heavily fatigued and it is leaking into his game. I don't believe that any young player should sit. Including Cates. Ups and downs are simply part of it for young players. Modern day coaching is working with young players and coaching them through the rough patches. Not sitting them out punitively to say, you've got to play harder! Now if a player is dogging it out there and being lazy, that's fine but I don't think that is the case with Cates or any of the Flyers young players. Zamula makes an ill-advised pinch in a game that leads to a transition goal against and he sits. He must be punished! Lets call up Mete and play him instead! Ridiculous. The issue with Cates is what was always apparent. Offensively, he is not a center. If his D game slips a little, his effectiveness at center declines.
- MJL

So in your opinion its not valuable for a young player to sit up in the press box for a couple of games to get a different perspective into how plays develop, so they can better focus their practices and be better when they get back into the lineup? And do you believe that Zamula's ill-advised pinch was the first time all season he has made that type of play?

The fact that they decided to play Mete over Zamula is asinine. Does not bode well for him once Staal is back and healthy. Brink should not be sitting more than one game either.
- TobyFlenderson

You have to remember that Mete is still only 25 years old and has over 200 games of NHL experience. If the Flyers can resurrect his career he could become a valuable asset for them to use down the road in this rebuild. I would rather see Mete in the lineup than Belpedio, though I must admit Belpedio has held his own since being called up.

He gives up very stoppable goals. He is inconsistent. Def agree in the bold.

I get the confidence thing though I am not huge believer in it. Hart knows the D isnt good. He just has to play his game. It shouldn't effect his confidence. Go about your business and control what you can. If his confidence is shaken then maybe he is not all that mentally strong. It shouldn't effect his game as much as you may think imo.
- hello it's me 2050

I'll say it again, put Carter Hart on the Bruins right now and he wins the Vezina and probably breaks a few records along the way as well. Hart is part of the solution here, not the problem.

Travis Konecny has a similar skillset to Frost, fast, good hands, good vision, etc. and Torts love TK? Why is that? Perhaps because TK has a better motor than Frost and consistently gets to the dirty areas of the ice. TK takes risks that often lead to turnovers and chances going the other way, but Torts tolerates it because he knows that is what happens sometimes. No, I think the reason why Frost has a short leash with Torts is because he does not consistently play a harder game and get to the dirty areas as much as Torts would like. This is what I mean about being noticeable shift to shift. It's not always about the flashy play, its being around the net and having the puck more often.
- jd250

You missed the boat here. Tortorella favors a player like Konecny versus Frost because while both are offensive players. Konecny chirps and gets in players faces. Mixes it up between whistles. While Frost is more low keyed and not as physical.
You consistently make false statements concerning Frost. A player cannot score at the level that Frost has. Leading his team in ES scoring if he is a perimeter player. If he doesn't play a hard game and get to the dirty areas. All we have to do is simply look at the games that Frost has played since he came back from the 6 game scratch. Numerous individual high level scoring chances as well as numerous scoring chances set up for his teammates around the net in the "dirty" areas of the ice. Tortorella is not happy and not content unless he is irrationally handling some player on his team. You've also shown the inability to recognize when a player is noticeable. Frost will make numerous good plays in a game and you say he is invisible. That's when myself or Bill Meltzer will reply to you and point out what you apparently didn't notice.

The best goalie in their history, far and away? Not for any period. That would be Bernie Parent. RIP Roman.
- MJL

I love Bernie, one of my favorite players growing up along with Clarke. But I posted "in a 3 year period". Bernie played great for almost a decade, but no goalie in Flyers history had the numbers Roman had for 3 successive seasons.

2000-01 .921 2.01 AS-2,Hart-4,Vezina-2
2001-02 .921 2.05 AS-6
2002-03 .925 1.83 AS-5,Jennings-1,Vezina-7, only Marty Turco was better

After 15 games the supposed Selke candidate Noah Cates is scoring at a 4th line level, getting outscored 10-7 at ES, and has been demoted to the 4th line.
- Feanor

sophomore slump?

You have to remember that Mete is still only 25 years old and has over 200 games of NHL experience. If the Flyers can resurrect his career he could become a valuable asset for them to use down the road in this rebuild. I would rather see Mete in the lineup than Belpedio, though I must admit Belpedio has held his own since being called up.
- jd250

mete and valuable asset in the same sentence. Belpedio playing 12 minutes a night will end up taxing the other guys and limit their effectiveness.

I'll say it again, put Carter Hart on the Bruins right now and he wins the Vezina and probably breaks a few records along the way as well. Hart is part of the solution here, not the problem.
- jd250

no one has said he is part of the problem in any way. What peeps are saying is they do not want to commit to him long term with big bucks.

So in your opinion its not valuable for a young player to sit up in the press box for a couple of games to get a different perspective into how plays develop, so they can better focus their practices and be better when they get back into the lineup? And do you believe that Zamula's ill-advised pinch was the first time all season he has made that type of play?
- jd250

No, it is not valuable. This is another repeated narrative that you float. That it is valuable for a player to have another perspective to see a game that he will never see while actually playing ! LOL. Playing and gaining experience is what is valuable. Working to correct mistakes on the ice is what is valuable. The pinch is the reason why he was sat. If he didn't make that play, he would've played in the last game in my opinion. Zamula is playing in his first full NHL season. There are going to be mistakes and growing pains. It's one of the only tools that Tortorella has in his limited coaching tool bag. He doesn't know to do anything else.

You have to remember that Mete is still only 25 years old and has over 200 games of NHL experience. If the Flyers can resurrect his career he could become a valuable asset for them to use down the road in this rebuild. I would rather see Mete in the lineup than Belpedio, though I must admit Belpedio has held his own since being called up.
- jd250

Fine then scratch Belpedio. Not Zamula.

I'll say it again, put Carter Hart on the Bruins right now and he wins the Vezina and probably breaks a few records along the way as well. Hart is part of the solution here, not the problem.
- jd250

Nobody thinks he is a problem

You have to remember that Mete is still only 25 years old and has over 200 games of NHL experience. If the Flyers can resurrect his career he could become a valuable asset for them to use down the road in this rebuild. I would rather see Mete in the lineup than Belpedio, though I must admit Belpedio has held his own since being called up.
- jd250

Resurrect his career? He's been nothing but a bottom pairing/depth defenseman his entire career. There is nothing to resurrect. Even in that year he played a ton of games for Montreal he only averaged 17 minutes a game. The Flyers have plenty of young defensemen (especially Zamula) they should be developing. They should not be worried about resurrecting a depth defenseman's career, I'm sorry.

I love Bernie, one of my favorite players growing up along with Clarke. But I posted "in a 3 year period". Bernie played great for almost a decade, but no goalie in Flyers history had the numbers Roman had for 3 successive seasons.

2000-01 .921 2.01 AS-2,Hart-4,Vezina-2
2001-02 .921 2.05 AS-6
2002-03 .925 1.83 AS-5,Jennings-1,Vezina-7, only Marty Turco was better
- jd250

You said he was the best goalie in their history far and away for 3 years. False. Bernie Parent backstopped his team to 2 Stanley Cups back to back. There is a difference in the numbers such as SV% and GAA for goalies in different eras of the game.

Resurrect his career? He's been nothing but a bottom pairing/depth defenseman his entire career. There is nothing to resurrect. Even in that year he played a ton of games for Montreal he only averaged 17 minutes a game. The Flyers have plenty of young defensemen (especially Zamula) they should be developing. They should not be worried about resurrecting a depth defenseman's career, I'm sorry.
- TobyFlenderson

You said he was the best goalie in their history far and away for 3 years. False. Bernie Parent backstopped his team to 2 Stanley Cups back to back. There is a difference in the numbers such as SV% and GAA for goalies in different eras of the game.
- MJL

well why don't you create a curve chart comparing the era's.

No, it is not valuable. This is another repeated narrative that you float. That it is valuable for a player to have another perspective to see a game that he will never see while actually playing ! LOL. Playing and gaining experience is what is valuable. Working to correct mistakes on the ice is what is valuable. The pinch is the reason why he was sat. If he didn't make that play, he would've played in the last game in my opinion. Zamula is playing in his first full NHL season. There are going to be mistakes and growing pains. It's one of the only tools that Tortorella has in his limited coaching tool bag. He doesn't know to do anything else.
- MJL

Cliff you can absolutely pick up things watching from the press box.

No, it is not valuable. This is another repeated narrative that you float. That it is valuable for a player to have another perspective to see a game that he will never see while actually playing ! LOL. Playing and gaining experience is what is valuable. Working to correct mistakes on the ice is what is valuable. The pinch is the reason why he was sat. If he didn't make that play, he would've played in the last game in my opinion. Zamula is playing in his first full NHL season. There are going to be mistakes and growing pains. It's one of the only tools that Tortorella has in his limited coaching tool bag. He doesn't know to do anything else.
- MJL

you're right, because Torts has never, ever developed young NHL players that became any good.

You said he was the best goalie in their history far and away for 3 years. False. Bernie Parent backstopped his team to 2 Stanley Cups back to back. There is a difference in the numbers such as SV% and GAA for goalies in different eras of the game.
- MJL

I know what Parent did. What I am saying is even the great Bernie Parent never had 3 successive seasons with numbers as good as Roman. Look it up!

Resurrect his career? He's been nothing but a bottom pairing/depth defenseman his entire career. There is nothing to resurrect. Even in that year he played a ton of games for Montreal he only averaged 17 minutes a game. The Flyers have plenty of young defensemen (especially Zamula) they should be developing. They should not be worried about resurrecting a depth defenseman's career, I'm sorry.
- TobyFlenderson

So you are saying Mete doesn't have a higher ceiling than what he showed in Montreal? Hmmm ... and you know this because? I would like to see Mete play some this season, just in case you might be mistaken.

Fine then scratch Belpedio. Not Zamula.
- MJL

I think that will happen eventually. I don't expect Zamula to be out of the lineup for long. I would however give him a game or two to reset, see things from a different perspective, practice a few things and then get right back out there. Same with Brink. I certainly would hope no one is sitting as long as Frost was.

you're right, because Torts has never, ever developed young NHL players that became any good.
- jd250

He was a very good coach at one point in time. He isn't any longer. He has not adapted to modern times. He is stuck in the past and in his archaic ways. The sooner he is fired or re-signs, the better it will be for the Flyers.

I know what Parent did. What I am saying is even the great Bernie Parent never had 3 successive seasons with numbers as good as Roman. Look it up!
- jd250

It's not hard to grasp what you're saying. You don't understand how in different eras, goaltender numbers were different. You made an asinine and poorly thought-out statement in posting "3 years he was far and away the best Flyers goalie in their history" You didn't post about numbers. Just more poorly thought-out hyperbole from you.

So you are saying Mete doesn't have a higher ceiling than what he showed in Montreal? Hmmm ... and you know this because? I would like to see Mete play some this season, just in case you might be mistaken.
- jd250

You keep making these idiotic fallacies such as "you're just going to have to accept it" and "hmmm... you know this because" without offering anything factual or intelligent for that matter. He knows what Mete has been because that is what he has been! It's been 4 seasons since he was a regular NHL player. He's played in 3 different organizations since he left Montreal. He had to sign a one year 2 way deal with the Flyers. Who is knocking down his door with this higher ceiling that you refer to?