Riiight.

And just a few years later, that sense of honor, integrity, and privilege dissipates, and they start holding out for their bridge/standard contracts.

Ok cretin, I am done with you here.
- PT21

Well, that may be the case but at least by then those players have earned that right to seek more job security, money, a trade etc. I doubt the Morgan Frost, Jamie Drysdale, Zegras and Nylander contracts resulted in:

Team: “Hey player, this is your GM. I wanna talk to you about a new contract”

Player: [silence]

Team: “just following up. Trying to figure out where we’re going with this. You want an extension, you want a trade, or do you wanna just ride this out and become a free agent after the season? It’s your GM. Call me back”

Player: [silence]

Not much different. Especially if prior communication was that the player wanted to resign. Then said he didn’t. And then went silent.

kid gloves are officially off.
- hello it's me 2050

In a few minutes, he will realize that the guy the Flyers got back, demonstrated exactly the same lack of honor, integrity etc. Drysdale held out just a few months back.

I carried on 10 parallel conversations here. With everyone, we discussed substance, though we disagreed. With him, it is never about the issue. It is about playing a wild, out-of-control game of gotcha.

This season, I have posted only about the Eagles with a (hockey) comment or two a month. These past 3 days are my first sustained hockey posts.

"Nice" to see that the resident maniac is still in full flow.

Well, that may be the case but at least by then those players have earned that right to seek more job security, money, a trade etc. I doubt the Morgan Frost, Jamie Drysdale, Zegras and Nylander contracts resulted in:

Team: “Hey player, this is your GM. I wanna talk to you about a new contract”

Player:
- mikeyo27[silence]

Team: “just following up. Trying to figure out where we’re going with this. You want an extension, you want a trade, or do you wanna just ride this out and become a free agent after the season? It’s your GM. Call me back”

Player: [silence]

Not much different. Especially if prior communication was that the player wanted to resign. Then said he didn’t. And then went silent.

I'd like to know from PT21, how many NHL players have held out because the GM can't get a hold of the player or the agent to negotiate a new contract?

The overwhelming consensus on this board appears to be that Cutter has demonstrated immaturity and/or a lack of character and/or a lack of professionalism. I’m done talking about Anaheim’s new left winger.

For most yes. You work for a company and come up for a new invention. The company own the rights, you do not.
- WhiskeyMan

Actually, that depends on the agreement for your employment. That is not a common law or, to my knowledge, a statutory concept.

Well, that may be the case but at least by then those players have earned that right to seek more job security, money, a trade etc. I doubt the Morgan Frost, Jamie Drysdale, Zegras and Nylander contracts resulted in:

Team: “Hey player, this is your GM. I wanna talk to you about a new contract”

Player:
- mikeyo27[silence]

Team: “just following up. Trying to figure out where we’re going with this. You want an extension, you want a trade, or do you wanna just ride this out and become a free agent after the season? It’s your GM. Call me back”

Player: [silence]

Why do you feel that

Not much different. Especially if prior communication was that the player wanted to resign. Then said he didn’t. And then went silent.

But why do you feel that this right is reserved for only senior players? Why do you keep injecting an emotional and moral component to this, as though these are soldiers going to war?

As for your example, you realize this is not what happened, right? We don't know exactly why it didn't, but that is not what happened.

And who does t love the passion of Flyers fans on this board?!

In a few minutes, he will realize that the guy the Flyers got back, demonstrated exactly the same lack of honor, integrity etc. Drysdale held out just a few months back.

- PT21

I honestly don't want to get into any of the other back and forth you have with other posters, but this scenario is DEFINITELY apples/oranges as to what happened with Cutter Gauthier.

In a few minutes, he will realize that the guy the Flyers got back, demonstrated exactly the same lack of honor, integrity etc. Drysdale held out just a few months back.


- PT21

Drysdale is not the first player to hold out and won't be the last. Again, I would like you to explain how that is the same thing as telling the team that you don't want to play for them and blocking off all communication with a team. There is a difference between that and an ongoing contract negotiation that just hasn't been able to come to an equitable agreement yet. You can't grasp the difference. There was no lack of honor displayed by Drysdale.

Dribble deleted.

If you actually stopped to think for a few seconds, instead of splattering the board with your error filled posts like a demented cockatoo, the why would be apparent, and it would not stem from duty.

If it were indeed duty, obligation, character etc, then why would many of the same players do the reverse and hold out, not report for camp, ask to be traded, etc. etc. later on in their careers? It is because by then, they are more established and surer of themselves.

Translation: they suck it up because they don't dare buck the system as junior employees. One guy bucked it. That doesn't mean only one guy wanted to buck it.
- PT21

I Agree with this. Did he have the right to do it? Every thing I have seen says yes. So what if it doesn’t happen a lot? That should raise the question of why here and the related question of why not in more places. The fact that it is rare does not dictate that it must be wrong, immature, petty or whatever pejorative jumps to the mind of any poster.

But why do you feel that this right is reserved for only senior players? Why do you keep injecting an emotional and moral component to this, as though these are soldiers going to war?


- PT21

It is not a right exercised by senior players. What are you talking about?

As for your example, you realize this is not what happened, right? We don't know exactly why it didn't, but that is not what happened.
- PT21

It's not the full scenario of what happened but it is what happened after May of 23. It is the part of the process that fans have an issue with.

But why do you feel that this right is reserved for only senior players? Why do you keep injecting an emotional and moral component to this, as though these are soldiers going to war?

As for your example, you realize this is not what happened, right? We don't know exactly why it didn't, but that is not what happened.
- PT21

I’m not sure I’m injecting emotional or moral component to this. Just the cold hard truth that in my opinion this was a demonstration of a complete lack character and maturity and professionalism.

Of course, we are all making incredible presumptions based upon what others have pieced together. That is 100% accurate that we really do not know what happened, only that the Flyers have stated that the kid and his camp essentially ignored them. Now if it comes out that Briere made a pass at the kids mom or something, yeah that would be a game changer, but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

As for the right reserves to experienced players, it’s because it’s true. The CBL has it set up that way.

I have no problem I’d any player doesn’t want to play for a particular team. I’m on record as defending Michkov during the draft process. My sole issue is what appears to be a lack of (fill in the blanks) by not even having conversations.

Now you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. You have good points and points I clearly don’t agree with. I enjoy the debate and the other points of view. There’s a reason we have chocolate and vanilla etc. This is fun.

I Agree with this. Did he have the right to do it? Every thing I have seen says yes. So what if it doesn’t happen a lot? That should raise the question of why here and the related question of why not in more places. The fact that it is rare does not dictate that it must be wrong, immature, petty or whatever pejorative jumps to the mind of any poster.
- iamscore2day

I've asked that question to numerous posters. It gets dodged. The answer tells you what side to be on.

I honestly don't want to get into any of the other back and forth you have with other posters, but this scenario is DEFINITELY apples/oranges as to what happened with Cutter Gauthier.
- Wingdestroyer

Poster. But don't worry.

Anyway, more like oranges and marmalade to me.

Many of you seem to be buying the line that the guy just ghosted without any cause or explanation. I am not saying you are wrong. But look what both sides have admitted:

1. Gauthier changed his mind, and made it clear he didn't want to be a Flyer. Meaning, he said clearly he wants his rights traded.

2. Flyers wanted to know why. The reason they wanted to know why is because they wanted to persuade him to stay.

3. He did not want to be persuaded.

4. We don't know how many times he actually did tell them that he wanted out AND that he didn't want to give a reason before the ghosting began.

Tell me something: is it that obvious to you that given 1,2 and 3, and 4, that ghosting was not the best thing to do?

You are assuming that providing of the reason would be constructive. What if it was destructive?

Poster. But don't worry.

Anyway, more like oranges and marmalade to me.

Many of you seem to be buying the line that the guy just ghosted without any cause or explanation. I am not saying you are wrong. But look what both sides have admitted:

1. Gauthier changed his mind, and made it clear he didn't want to be a Flyer. Meaning, he said clearly he wants his rights traded.

2. Flyers wanted to know why. The reason they wanted to know why is because they wanted to persuade him to stay.

3. He did not want to be persuaded.

4. We don't know how many times he actually did tell them that he wanted out AND that he didn't want to give a reason before the ghosting began.

Tell me something: is it that obvious to you that given 1,2 and 3, and 4, that ghosting was not the best thing to do?

You are assuming that providing of the reason would be constructive. What if it was destructive?
- PT21

Some of us have enough common sense to know that providing the reason would be destructive and make Gauthier look worse. Which is why his agent is doing his job and protecting his client at this point.

I've asked that question to numerous posters. It gets dodged. The answer tells you what side to be on.
- MJL

No, my answer to your question is, so what? The kid has the right and did not like how the Flyers treated him in their contract negotiations. It sounds like he bet on himself and took a risk. Maybe the other players who considered this approach lacked his nerve. Just because it does not happen a lot doesn’t mean it is wrong, bad etc…. If that were the case, wouldn’t the other teams have let him play out his 4 years and try free agency? Doesn’t the willingness of Anaheim to trade for him make that a nonstarter?

I’m not sure I’m injecting emotional or moral component to this. Just the cold hard truth that in my opinion this was a demonstration of a complete lack character and maturity and professionalism.

Of course, we are all making incredible presumptions based upon what others have pieced together. That is 100% accurate that we really do not know what happened, only that the Flyers have stated that the kid and his camp essentially ignored them. Now if it comes out that Briere made a pass at the kids mom or something, yeah that would be a game changer, but usually the simplest explanation is the right one.

As for the right reserves to experienced players, it’s because it’s true. The CBL has it set up that way.

I have no problem I’d any player doesn’t want to play for a particular team. I’m on record as defending Michkov during the draft process. My sole issue is what appears to be a lack of (fill in the blanks) by not even having conversations.

Now you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. You have good points and points I clearly don’t agree with. I enjoy the debate and the other points of view. There’s a reason we have chocolate and vanilla etc. This is fun.
- mikeyo27

Fine, you think it was unprofessional, not immoral necessarily. And I am arguing it may not be. He had a difficult set of cards to play. There was no precedent. He had to convey to the team he wanted out. He did so. He wanted to convey there was NO SCOPE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSIONS.

(pardon the caps, just emphasizing, not shouting )

Tell me, was ghosting not an efficient way to convey the message? Lets say he didn't think the Flyers were getting ready to contend. That their entire organizational philosophy was at fault.

The Flyers would have said: No, no. This is what we are doing, this is what we plan to do. And he would have said, sorry, I just don't agree with the path you are taking.

What purpose would have been served by saying this? Who would it have helped?

And yeah, it is fun, but a guilty fun. I am already spending way too much time here.

No, my answer to your question is, so what? The kid has the right and did not like how the Flyers treated him in their contract negotiations. It sounds like he bet on himself and took a risk. Maybe the other players who considered this approach lacked his nerve. Just because it does not happen a lot doesn’t mean it is wrong, bad etc…. If that were the case, wouldn’t the other teams have let him play out his 4 years and try free agency? Doesn’t the willingness of Anaheim to trade for him make that a nonstarter?
- iamscore2day

If a certain behavior rarely happens and it is clearly outside of the spirit of the game and a sense of right and wrong. It's obviously wrong. It doesn't happen a lot because that's how the overwhelming majority of players feel.
Anaheim traded for him because the GM covets the player. He tried to trade up to draft Gauthier. I think what Gauthier did was wrong but I don't think he should be black balled by the rest of the league for this.

In a few minutes, he will realize that the guy the Flyers got back, demonstrated exactly the same lack of honor, integrity etc. Drysdale held out just a few months back.

I carried on 10 parallel conversations here. With everyone, we discussed substance, though we disagreed. With him, it is never about the issue. It is about playing a wild, out-of-control game of gotcha.

This season, I have posted only about the Eagles with a (hockey) comment or two a month. These past 3 days are my first sustained hockey posts.

"Nice" to see that the resident maniac is still in full flow.
- PT21

I don’t believe Drysdale ghosted his team and thus acting in bad faith…. And I actually like your Eagles post.

Apparently Trevor Zegras has a broken heart. What would it take to get him? Hes having an off year and may very well not flourish under Torts. Just what do you think it would take?

I don’t believe Drysdale ghosted his team and thus acting in bad faith…. And I actually like your Eagles post.
- landros 2

I am trying to persuade this board, essentially, that ghosting was an efficient card to play under those circumstances. It did not signify disrespect, or immaturity. It was a cold blooded contractual ploy*, and quite possibly the best one to use under the circumstances.

Also, please don't lie. You like all my posts.

(*EDIT: similar in spirit to holding out though of course very different in appearance)

Part of me wants to put york with Drysdale right away. Build that future pair.

Part of me wants to put york with Drysdale right away. Build that future pair.
- Peter Richards

The only hockey part of this I dislike is that the Flyers will likely worsen even further their draft position. And that gain will probably wipe out the value of the '25 2nd they got back.

can't wait to see drysdale!

The only hockey part of this I dislike is that the Flyers will likely worsen even further their draft position. And that gain will probably wipe out the value of the '25 2nd they got back.
- PT21

who cares we got a young dman that should actually want to play in Philly