Jeremy Laura: Wings lose more than a game, Larkin hits 30.

I figured the Red Wings would lose this game, but hoping I would be wrong.

Not sure why people are so negative. It's April. The team is playing meaningful games and basically tied for the final playoff spot. They have already exceeded expectations. Enjoy the final 6 games. Treat it as a playoff round. Win 4 of 6 and they are likely in.

As for being a legit contender? Still need a 1C. So likely need to tear it down and collect a couple of top 3 picks or hit a homerun on someone. Yzerman won't do that. So probably 4 or 5 more years of mediocrity. Then a new GM comes in and rebuilds.

Not sure why people are so negative. It's April. The team is playing meaningful games and basically tied for the final playoff spot. They have already exceeded expectations. Enjoy the final 6 games. Treat it as a playoff round. Win 4 of 6 and they are likely in.

As for being a legit contender? Still need a 1C. So likely need to tear it down and collect a couple of top 3 picks or hit a homerun on someone. Yzerman won't do that. So probably 4 or 5 more years of mediocrity. Then a new GM comes in and rebuilds.
- HockeyBuzzed

I agree that it’s a positive to be in the spot they’re in. The feedback gets a little more somber after each game. As far as 1C, I still feel Larkin can contribute on a top line, but as I’ve held they need another center with the same skill set. I don’t think it will be a full tear down. I honestly believe Seider is coming along well (I know you disagree), Edvinsson will likely be on the 2nd pairing. The gap between the top line and the second line is still far too great. Not sure what Kasper will turn into, Sandin Pellikka will be interesting to watch. Danielson will be interesting to watch interacting with older players. Will be interesting to see how many people head out the door. I know we disagree on Larkin. That’s part of what makes being a fan of the game.

I’m losing count of games that Perron helped us lose with taking stupid penalties. He’s done some good here, but he’s becoming a liability, like Jeff Petry. Both of those players need to be playing their final few games as Detroit Red Wings.
First order of off season business:
Fire Derek LaLonde

I agree that it’s a positive to be in the spot they’re in. The feedback gets a little more somber after each game. As far as 1C, I still feel Larkin can contribute on a top line, but as I’ve held they need another center with the same skill set. I don’t think it will be a full tear down. I honestly believe Seider is coming along well (I know you disagree), Edvinsson will likely be on the 2nd pairing. The gap between the top line and the second line is still far too great. Not sure what Kasper will turn into, Sandin Pellikka will be interesting to watch. Danielson will be interesting to watch interacting with older players. Will be interesting to see how many people head out the door. I know we disagree on Larkin. That’s part of what makes being a fan of the game.
- Jeremy Laura

What do we disagree on about Seider? He's a legit top pair guy and still getting better.

Larkin is a 1C. But not in the same league as most other contenders. Very hard to win a Cup with him as your top center. If you cloned him and had a 2C just as good, then maybe you can compete.

It won't be a tear down under Yzerman. But in 5-6 years Larkin will be past his prime and it will likely be more obvious we need to find a superstar center. And the most probable way to get one is to have a couple of top 3 or top 5 picks.

TOO NEGATIVE A POST. Caps lost. Flyers lost. No change in the playoff picture.

Patrica Kane effect

Chery pick chery pick & don't get hurt at all costs

All he cares about is his points

Total me player

So, lost game? Check? Hang in and throw punch-for-punch w/the best team (points-wise) in the NHL? CHECK! Sucks to lose a game like this? YUP. Sucks to lose in relation to the WC run? YUP. Still in the hunt? YUP. Exceeding expectations???? YUP YUP YUP!!!!Defer to 1st question if in need of consoling.

Listen, not making it sucks, for sure. Someone pull up the posts on predictions for this season back in Sep/Oct, pls. Did anyone think we'd have 6 games left and still be throwing punches to remain in contention? I sure as hell didn't. Heck, I believe (I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong....) I said they'll not make it, but make a run. Most of us said the same thing, I believe. Bottom line is this team is punching above its weight. The good ting is the holes keep being identified, so let's see what's done to fill them. There have been some misses, for sure.

2 things happened prior to the 4th G: Perron showed how he's using penalty-ridden play to cover up his degradation in abilities, and Chiarot Richarded around with the puck down low when he should've just cleared the damn thing and been done with it. Because he fumbled the puck, it stayed in the D-zone and ended up being the 4th G. 2 guys made mistakes in a game that had zero room for them.

Think it was Buzzed who said Lyon's not an NHL-calibre G. Agreed. Kid's played more games this season that all others combined. We need a stud G. Larkin's carrying the team on his back. Agreed. We need someone to take the heat off of him (we saw what happened when he went down: rudderless). This team has NO "superstar". The Cat showed he's streaky this year. Kane's been consistent, then kinda had his game fall a bit (is the hip an issue again? Is everyone asking that question? Sure they are....). Eddy has fought his way into the line-up in Oct. Who goes & who comes up?

Mazur's been a gritty little guy. Kasper may well make it. Can he be the guy who takes the heat off Larkin? He's playing some really good hockey in the A. We can't continue to trade goals with high calibre teams like NYR. But we gave them everything they did NOT want to see; a game that should've been a blow-out honestly. We kept up with them......and that's with a team D scheme that's as messy as a morning-after hang-over breakfast plate.

This is what happens when you miss Top 3 picks in the lottery, rebuilds go longer than expected. Not sure we need to totally tear it down and start again, maybe we do. I lost my NHL GM of The Year award, so I have no clue. I think we have some great assets in the A and developing in ECHL 7 college.

Gents, this IS a good team. Far better than we expected. We're squabbling over making the SCPO for Lord Stanley's sake! When was the last time we did THAT?!?!?!? Does it suck? YUP. But we're still in the hunt. Whitney commented on the team during a Chicklets segment, How in the hell are they still in it after dumping all those games when Larkin was down??? We're NOT SCF contenders, but we're close to making the SCPO, guys. We need some help. I frankin' HATE to lose (I'm "that" old guy now....), but this season has NOT been a waste. It's hurt us to lose like we did, that's a good thing if it's used correctly as a motivator.

This is still a good team, Jeremy. Don't lose faith, look at our predictions for this season......we're *this* close.........

GO GET 'EM LADS!!!!!

The defence is still horrible and so is the goaltending.

If this GM wasn't named Steve Yzerman he would have been blown out of town.

Not making the playoffs is unacceptable.

The defence is still horrible and so is the goaltending.

If this GM wasn't named Steve Yzerman he would have been blown out of town.

Not making the playoffs is unacceptable.
- Gertner

100% agree that Yzerman is shielded from any meaningful criticism. He got Raymond at #4 and should have realized there was still no 1C anywhere. So you needed at least 1 more year in the basement to get a top 3 pick. Instead he started to sign a bunch of steady veterans to help insulate these kids. So the next draft we pick at 6. He signs more vets and we then pick at 8, then 9, now likely around 15-20. We've missed our chance for a star center. Now you add that fact that our drafting has been awful. Numerous 2nd and 3rd round picks wasted with nothing to show for it. Moving up to select Cossa was another awful move. Wallstedt was considered the better goalie and has developed much better since then. Look at Dallas the other night. Wyatt Johnson picked at 23 while we moved up to 15 for Cossa. They hit on Stankoven in the 2nd round. So they already have the 2021 class playing key roles. Hintz, Robertson, Lindell all found in round 2 and 3.

What do we disagree on about Seider? He's a legit top pair guy and still getting better.

Larkin is a 1C. But not in the same league as most other contenders. Very hard to win a Cup with him as your top center. If you cloned him and had a 2C just as good, then maybe you can compete.

It won't be a tear down under Yzerman. But in 5-6 years Larkin will be past his prime and it will likely be more obvious we need to find a superstar center. And the most probable way to get one is to have a couple of top 3 or top 5 picks.
- HockeyBuzzed

I may have mistaken a comment about Seider from someone else and attributed it (unfairly) to you. I agree that in contention Larkin won’t be the player he is now. I think he’ll still be part of the team in a 2nd or 3rd line role in 5 or 6 years. We either have to have drafted a future top center or have his clone be several years younger.

The 2014-15 Toronto Maple Leafs roster was horrific

Shanny had them in the playoffs in two years.

Yzerman has been here since 2019. Stop with this "rebuilds take that long"

No they do not. Stop. And they aren't remotely close to being a contender.

The defence is still horrible and so is the goaltending.

If this GM wasn't named Steve Yzerman he would have been blown out of town.

Not making the playoffs is unacceptable.
- Gertner

I disagree on the Yzerman “blown out of town”. Defense is awful except for Seider and Walman. Husso outplayed Ned then fell back. Unlike Tampa, there wasn’t a Stamkos waiting, or a veteran St. Louis. His first pick here is now the #1 defender. The trade for Walman worked out well. They’re plugging holes with the veterans. Go back to Jimmy D’s comments about how long it would take him to build a contender. At this point only 3 people are on the NHL roster from Holland. Yzerman has turned over the roster, added goal scoring and still has the team as close as they are at this point. The roster will turn over several players again (9 new last year). In the same division as Tampa (3 straight SCF, 2 cups), Fla (last year’s SCF), Boston and Toronto (regular season dominance but nothing for the leafs past round 2 and that only once). It’s going to be a climb and if the GM weren’t willing to buy out, let go, trade away and keep trying new “plugs” while picks develop there’d be a much bigger issue. It’s a far cry from having the league’s top scorer and being stuck in the first round for most of his tenure.

The 2014-15 Toronto Maple Leafs roster was horrific

Shanny had them in the playoffs in two years.

Yzerman has been here since 2019. Stop with this "rebuilds take that long"

No they do not. Stop. And they aren't remotely close to being a contender.
- Gertner

What kind of draft “luck” may Toronto have had that Detroit hasn’t? And how many times was the team bounced in the first round even with 40million tied up in 4 forwards?

The 2014-15 Toronto Maple Leafs roster was horrific

Shanny had them in the playoffs in two years.

Yzerman has been here since 2019. Stop with this "rebuilds take that long"

No they do not. Stop. And they aren't remotely close to being a contender.
- Gertner

Yeah and where would the Leafs be if they had picked 4th in the Matthews draft instead of 1st overall and drafted Puljujarvi instead of Matthews.

Even when the Wings bottomed out and were the worst team in the league, they still picked 4th and that was their only top 5 pick of the rebuild.

Buffalo has been rebuilding for over a decade with multiple 1st overall and top 5 picks during that time and they are still no closer to the playoffs.

It's funny that every Original 6 aside from Detroit that misses the playoffs ends up with a 1st overall pick. Rangers got a 2nd overall and got their 1st overall when they were in the play-ins for the playoffs. Leafs got their 1st overall, Habs got their 1st overall, Chicago got their 1st overall. I'm sure when Boston eventually sucks and misses the playoffs the league will give them the 1st overall also. Wings are never getting a 1st overall...maybe if they had complied with Bettman and the league and gone back to the West conference they would have but they refused and so did Columbus so they probably will never get a 1st overall either.

The 2014-15 Toronto Maple Leafs roster was horrific

Shanny had them in the playoffs in two years.

Yzerman has been here since 2019. Stop with this "rebuilds take that long"

No they do not. Stop. And they aren't remotely close to being a contender.
- Gertner

I’ll give you credit on this, you certainly know what it looks like when your team isn’t really a contender, no matter how much you spend.

I’m losing count of games that Perron helped us lose with taking stupid penalties. He’s done some good here, but he’s becoming a liability, like Jeff Petry. Both of those players need to be playing their final few games as Detroit Red Wings.
First order of off season business:
Fire Derek LaLonde
- danimal6777

Totally agree fire Lalonde and get rid of Petry, Perron and Chairot as it was his fault that power play goal was scored

The defence is still horrible and so is the goaltending.

If this GM wasn't named Steve Yzerman he would have been blown out of town.

Not making the playoffs is unacceptable.
- Gertner

Agree

Agree
- saintdog19

Goaltending is fine if they had a good defense in front of them.

They really need someone good behind Seider to play with Edvinsson. Walman is ok but upgrading him to someone better to play with Seider would be best and drop Walman to 3rd pair. If they could do that and have a solid top 4, Husso/Lyon would be fine.

If they don't upgrade the defense then only an elite goalie would look good behind that defense. Teams aren't trading elite goalies and there aren't that many in the league these days anyways. Cossa should be able to come in and get some games next season when there is an injury. He has become a quality goalie in the AHL this season and now he needs to get his feet wet in the NHL next season to get his game ready for the next level.

Goaltending is fine if they had a good defense in front of them.

They really need someone good behind Seider to play with Edvinsson. Walman is ok but upgrading him to someone better to play with Seider would be best and drop Walman to 3rd pair. If they could do that and have a solid top 4, Husso/Lyon would be fine.

If they don't upgrade the defense then only an elite goalie would look good behind that defense. Teams aren't trading elite goalies and there aren't that many in the league these days anyways. Cossa should be able to come in and get some games next season when there is an injury. He has become a quality goalie in the AHL this season and now he needs to get his feet wet in the NHL next season to get his game ready for the next level.
- dcz28

You make many good points. I agree that Lyon is really not the problem and it is players like Chairot that keep making the same mistakes over and over that leads to goals in our net. What I really agree with the other guy was that it is no longer acceptable to not make playoffs. Cap era and pre cap era rarely did a team miss playoffs longer than 5-6 years. If a team goes longer it usually is ineptitude by management and usually that has to be changed. I believe Yzerman has had terrible coaching and refuses to make a change. The question is is that a layer of protection to protect him or is his teams just not up to the challenge

You make many good points. I agree that Lyon is really not the problem and it is players like Chairot that keep making the same mistakes over and over that leads to goals in our net. What I really agree with the other guy was that it is no longer acceptable to not make playoffs. Cap era and pre cap era rarely did a team miss playoffs longer than 5-6 years. If a team goes longer it usually is ineptitude by management and usually that has to be changed. I believe Yzerman has had terrible coaching and refuses to make a change. The question is is that a layer of protection to protect him or is his teams just not up to the challenge
- saintdog19

Well Yzerman had to do a complete tear down of the roster when he came in. He lost a year or two just doing that and unlike a lot of teams that do tear downs to rebuild, he had nothing to trade worth anything left on the roster. Holland had already traded Tatar, Nyquist, Jensen, Smith and basically anyone that didn't have a bloated contract that nobody wanted. He started with a team with very little cap space and a bunch of overpaid declining players nobody wanted and not a lot in terms of prospects or young players.

Sure he had Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi and Hronek but not much else. Yzerman did end up trading those players aside from Larkin and got a couple of 1st rounders + for them although the Mantha trade kind of failed with Vrana being a problem and he wore out his welcome in St Louis pretty quick too and is now in the AHL so obviously he still has issues that teams don't want on their NHL team.

Also doesn't help that despite being one of the worst teams for a few seasons, they only drafted top 5 once (Raymond at 4th) and the rest was 6th or later. Wings missed their chance at a franchise player or two (although Seider was a solid pick) so he had to find another way to build the team and still does. To compete for a cup they will likely have to be lucky and hope some players exceed expectations and become stars or superstars despite the draft positions, have to trade for what they are missing in top end talent like Vegas does or be able to sign some top UFAs that end up hitting the market (which is rare these days unless they are past their prime). They will probably need all of those options if they hope to build a cup winning team now since they won't be bad enough to draft in the top 3. They will need to build a deep team instead of relying on a few superstar/franchise players to pull the team up unless they can trade or sign one or two of those.

Goaltending is fine if they had a good defense in front of them.l.
- dcz28

So, was just talking to a MI guy on Fort Jackson Army post about DRW. He played hockey for a while, not an NHL or AHL guy, but played with some names. Closest I can get to being in "the room" as players are discussed...This guy was talking about Ned. He had potential, needed to have a good G coach and solid D in front of him to truly get his legs, learn the game, etc... He's playing well now, but look what he has in front of him. The Pens aren't world beaters, but they have consistent team D; we don't. We don't have a good G coach, Lyon's a good G and is going to get better....with a good G coach. Husso has myriad issues, bad signing for sure. BLUF: Coaching & a solid scheme enable decent players to be better (look at this season, when the team was playing a strong D we were winning...). Anyway, the point is: coaching.

TB was in good shape when Yzerman arrived, we didn't. Major muscle-movements to clean house...and there HAVE been bad moves made, he ain't perfect. 2d-guessing who was drafted when & by whom is a great exercise in hypothetical analysis. A good analyst can make numbers say whatever they want. Would've been nice to get a 1st,for damn sure. But to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a team NOT projected to make the SCPO MAY NOT make it? For me, it's an opportunity to have adult conversations about opinions & perceptions. And I do like the way y'all have been discussing it. No one's right about anything done in the past, but what they would've done if they were the GM is a good read with some valid points.

Listen, Yzerman is already taking some heat, and rightfully so. I don't think canning him because were weren't seleceted to make the SCPO...and may not is an ill-advised move at this point. And unless you, the posters, have ever build a perennial SCF team, it's just an opinion. Now, my opinion is we have a few years to go. If we regress, yeah he should be put on notice. He has a leash, I'm sure....

Sorry this is so long....this IS a good team. We need some help & to overcome some previous mistakes, and it's frustrating AF. We've already improved over last year....

You make many good points. I agree that Lyon is really not the problem and it is players like Chairot that keep making the same mistakes over and over that leads to goals in our net. What I really agree with the other guy was that it is no longer acceptable to not make playoffs. Cap era and pre cap era rarely did a team miss playoffs longer than 5-6 years. If a team goes longer it usually is ineptitude by management and usually that has to be changed. I believe Yzerman has had terrible coaching and refuses to make a change. The question is is that a layer of protection to protect him or is his teams just not up to the challenge
- saintdog19

It still begs the question, did Yzerman come to a team that needed tweaking or purging? Even last year nearly half the roster was turned over. He’s made some bad signings, but also gotten rid of contracts and players that were even worse dead weight. Add to that two shortened seasons at the very beginning of his tenure where scouting was banned and entire leagues were closed. 4 players left from Holland that have played for the current management, 3 on this year’s roster and likely at least one heading out in the summer for whatever reason. LaLonde is in his 2nd season. He may well get the boot, we don’t know at this point. Probably more likely that peripheral staff is released/replaced as a warning shot

So, was just talking to a MI guy on Fort Jackson Army post about DRW. He played hockey for a while, not an NHL or AHL guy, but played with some names. Closest I can get to being in "the room" as players are discussed...This guy was talking about Ned. He had potential, needed to have a good G coach and solid D in front of him to truly get his legs, learn the game, etc... He's playing well now, but look what he has in front of him. The Pens aren't world beaters, but they have consistent team D; we don't. We don't have a good G coach, Lyon's a good G and is going to get better....with a good G coach. Husso has myriad issues, bad signing for sure. BLUF: Coaching & a solid scheme enable decent players to be better (look at this season, when the team was playing a strong D we were winning...). Anyway, the point is: coaching.

TB was in good shape when Yzerman arrived, we didn't. Major muscle-movements to clean house...and there HAVE been bad moves made, he ain't perfect. 2d-guessing who was drafted when & by whom is a great exercise in hypothetical analysis. A good analyst can make numbers say whatever they want. Would've been nice to get a 1st,for damn sure. But to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a team NOT projected to make the SCPO MAY NOT make it? For me, it's an opportunity to have adult conversations about opinions & perceptions. And I do like the way y'all have been discussing it. No one's right about anything done in the past, but what they would've done if they were the GM is a good read with some valid points.

Listen, Yzerman is already taking some heat, and rightfully so. I don't think canning him because were weren't seleceted to make the SCPO...and may not is an ill-advised move at this point. And unless you, the posters, have ever build a perennial SCF team, it's just an opinion. Now, my opinion is we have a few years to go. If we regress, yeah he should be put on notice. He has a leash, I'm sure....

Sorry this is so long....this IS a good team. We need some help & to overcome some previous mistakes, and it's frustrating AF. We've already improved over last year....
- mcmastermike1968

I might be one of the only ones but i think Husso would be fine behind a good defense. Put Husso on Boston and i think he has solid numbers.

All the Wings goalies the last 2 or 3 years all start off good but eventually their confidence gets destroyed over time playing behind that garbage defense and how the forwards play or the lack of playing defense. This is why i say only an elite goalie would make a difference behind this team defense. Wings are not getting one of those so instead of just continuing to change goalies every year, it is probably much better to just fix the problem instead with that defense and team defense. That would allow this team to take another step forward.

The other issue is at center. Larkin goes down and this team can't win because they don't have anyone that can play top 6 minutes and produce at center when he goes down. Maybe Kasper or Danielson can fix that but that has yet to be proven.