What if you get back a better player?
- Chunk

That's a good point. What if he's not. What if you trade him and he becomes a 20+ minutes dman in the league? Then you make the playoffs and you have to face him.

I always feel scouting developing only goes so far and no one truly knows what the player will become in the future. Odds are in the favor of him not amounting to being a premier player but i guess I've never been the guy who always thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.

I'd rather give away future 2nd and or maybe 3rd round picks than Kaiser we've waited all this time for him to join us them they invested time in coaching, developing and ice.

Phillips is a tough one too but i believe he's not high on the depth chart. So i could understand them trading him and he'll be 23 this season.

Pronman is an enigma. Just go look his final rankings from 2017

- MjulQvist

Didn't he have Petersson at #17 and Makar at #19?

From 2-18 this draft is wide open to interpretation. I have my preferences, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if KD picks somebody else. While the #2 pick will be more impactful, the options are #18 are more ambiguous. Somebody may fall to #18 like Moore fell to #19 last year. There could be an extended run on defensemen or forwards early in the draft that impact who's available at #18. KD could trade up still too, although I'm not counting on it.

Its fun to speculate who the Hawks will draft this year, but its not worth getting worked up about (not directed at you, just a general statement).

Phillips is a tough one too but i believe he's not high on the depth chart. So i could understand them trading him and he'll be 23 this season.
- BetweenTheDots

I don't think Phillips or Crevier have much trade value. Keep them and put one of them in Rockford while the other is the #7 d-man.

That's a good point. What if he's not. What if you trade him and he becomes a 20+ minutes dman in the league? Then you make the playoffs and you have to face him.

I always feel scouting developing only goes so far and no one truly knows what the player will become in the future. Odds are in the favor of him not amounting to being a premier player but i guess I've never been the guy who always thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.

I'd rather give away future 2nd and or maybe 3rd round picks than Kaiser we've waited all this time for him to join us them they invested time in coaching, developing and ice.
- BetweenTheDots

We speak a lot of scouting/picking the right player but scouting&picking is only the first step. You have know how to develop these kids properly. How to help these young players to become best versions of themselves. And that brings as back to scouting. You have to be sure that players have good work ethic and they are willing to do the required train and maybe even more to reach their potential.

Reichel was also quite timid, Sharp never was. Improving himself physically is the easy part for Reichel, as in everything getting over a mental block is sometimes more difficult.
- paulr

I think Sharp was underrated for how many board battles he won.

Can we not learn the lesson the Kings showed everyone?

- BetweenTheDots

Help me out, Dots. What is the lesson to be learned from LA?

Kaiser and the 18th for Minnesota pick?
- Scott1977

No. Make it Allan but in reality there is no reason to move up again unless its to get above 12, imo.

Either or imo Allen has more upside than Kaiser. Kaiser to me is a better version of Mitchell but not by much.
- Scott1977

No, he doesn't. Allan's upside is a 6-7 d-man. He is too clunky on the blades and has no offense to him at the next level.

Allan has been passed by every LH D-man under contract. Even Phillips plays top pair in RFD ahead of him at times.

Kaiser is just to much of an unknown to trade away right now, just like Korchinski. If i were to trade anyone away right now it would be Phillips. Kid shows promise but we are seeing younger kids pass him up on the depth chart. Gotta let the research and development department, at least let them develop to see what we got.
- BetweenTheDots

I'm a Kaiser guy and posted a week into the season the Hawks have their Hammer lite in Kaiser, pencil him in for the next 10 yrs. ........ Still believe that but he's a fine asset and could bring back real value if traded. Same for Phillips, as you mention he shows promise and that's not a fan bot assessment.

Point is, and especially as the trickle/steady flow of prospects are coming to the AHL every yr, KD has real assets that other clubs would covet to improve the Hawks. Another part/phase of the rebuild if you will.

And yes, you wanna be patient with your prospects, and KD can afford to as he has ownership on board, but there is opportunity there for a club to identify your own prospects that you don't think will pan out to move them before the rest of the league knows that.

Move a kid that has a higher value around the league that you don't think is gonna develop into what you had hoped.

Phillips is a tough one too but i believe he's not high on the depth chart. So i could understand them trading him and he'll be 23 this season.
- BetweenTheDots

Phillips just needs to learn how to bring his game from the AHL to the NHL. And its starts with confidence to me. He plays a completely different game in the A.

He was always going to be a long term prospect.

I think Sharp was underrated for how many board battles he won.
- rpeters01

Sharp had a lot of nasty to him. He was quite sticky.

That's a good point. What if he's not. What if you trade him and he becomes a 20+ minutes dman in the league? Then you make the playoffs and you have to face him.

I always feel scouting developing only goes so far and no one truly knows what the player will become in the future. Odds are in the favor of him not amounting to being a premier player but i guess I've never been the guy who always thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.

I'd rather give away future 2nd and or maybe 3rd round picks than Kaiser we've waited all this time for him to join us them they invested time in coaching, developing and ice.
- BetweenTheDots

I wasn't pinpointing Kaiser per se. Just saying that they can (and will) trade from a position of depth for help in other areas. I don't think you can play scared that a guy you trade is going to flourish elsewhere if you have needs in other areas. The Hawks have dumped Hartman, Forsling, Hagel, Dach, Debrincat, Schmaltz, early in their careers for a variety of returns. Every team in the league does it. Some are just better than others at identifying talent (or have better situations/rosters/coaches that let them flourish). That's the whole point of drafting the BPA regardless of position. You then have the most valuable assets that be used to craft the team you want/need.

I know it's not realistic, but if every time your pick came up the BPA was a goalie, would you just keep all the goalies, or trade some for other positions?

I wasn't pinpointing Kaiser per se. Just saying that they can (and will) trade from a position of depth for help in other areas. I don't think you can play scared that a guy you trade is going to flourish elsewhere if you have needs in other areas. The Hawks have dumped Hartman, Forsling, Hagel, Dach, Debrincat, Schmaltz, early in their careers for a variety of returns. Every team in the league does it. Some are just better than others at identifying talent (or have better situations/rosters/coaches that let them flourish). That's the whole point of drafting the BPA regardless of position. You then have the most valuable assets that be used to craft the team you want/need.

I know it's not realistic, but if every time your pick came up the BPA was a goalie, would you just keep all the goalies, or trade some for other positions?
- Chunk

Hit the nail on that sentence. I thought the idea of a trade is to shore up your weakness by dealing from strength.

It's not realistic to keep all these prospects. Eventually you'll get to a point when they are no longer waiver exempt (yes, a few years away yet). You have to move some or lose them for nothing like CAR did with Forsling. KD's problem will be to decide who to keep and who to move.

Well when you look at the Sharp math. He was in the AHL at 20, spent two years there mostly - so 22. And then took 2 years to figure it out in the NHL which I think is about what it takes to understand what kind of player you have.

Reichel has 1ish season under his belt. By the back end of next year you should start to see consistency and progress and kinda know what you got.

He has the disadvantage of coming over from European ice and having to relearn the game to a certain extent on the smaller surface. I think his biggest struggles have less to do with strength and more to do with on ice awareness and off puck play.

You'd think with the talent level that would fix itself with time but you never know. Tomas Jurco had a lot of skill and skated good and lit up the AHL but couldn't put it together in the NHL. It'll be an interesting season for a lot of players especially depending on how they add or subtract this summer.
- fattybeef

Another of many fine posts, fatty......... You just can't ever be sure if a prospect turns into an NHL player, especially lower rd picks, until he does it. Your Jurco example is a good one.

That's why a CAR is always trading down for more picks. An organIzational philisophy and I think we can all agree they develop a lotta prospects who turn into fine NHL players.

But, it ain't one size fits all and I'd guess there are windows of deviation. KD trying to move up for Moore last yr and already moving up in rd 1 of this draft seems to show he might have a different philosophy than CAR.

As far as when young NHLers click is around the 200 game mark or even 250 games. That's 3 seasons. ....... Reichel is a riddle though. Looks like, for now, the Hawks value him highly and are gonna ride this thing out expecting him to be a useful NHLer. His speed and skill fits two big boxes for KD.

It's not realistic to keep all these prospects. Eventually you'll get to a point when they are no longer waiver exempt (yes, a few years away yet). You have to move some or lose them for nothing like CAR did with Forsling. KD's problem will be to decide who to keep and who to move.
- boilermaker100

That’s a good point about waiver exemption, but I’ll also say that there’s still plenty of placeholder players to move out for young guys on entry level deals.
AA, Donato, Anderson, R Johnson, Raddysh could easily go.
Murphy has a modified NTC but I’d love to move him and let some actual skaters play on our right side. Crevier is entering make or break territory and certainly doesn’t have the name we recognize vs our top D prospects.
I’m looking forward to when we have a full roster of young, fast, hungry players with unknown ceilings.

That's a good point. What if he's not. What if you trade him and he becomes a 20+ minutes dman in the league? Then you make the playoffs and you have to face him.

I always feel scouting developing only goes so far and no one truly knows what the player will become in the future. Odds are in the favor of him not amounting to being a premier player but i guess I've never been the guy who always thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.

I'd rather give away future 2nd and or maybe 3rd round picks than Kaiser we've waited all this time for him to join us them they invested time in coaching, developing and ice.
- BetweenTheDots

I do agree with Paul, and I'm sure you do too, that if an opportunity presents to improve the club you do it. But, of course, it's not always that simple. ....... Some prospects are harder, and scarier, to trade than others even if you are improving the club and for me Kaiser falls into that category. For instance, can Kaiser be the next Faber? Probably not but he doesn't have to be to be at least a useful NHLer and he just might but there is a nice floor there.

I believe Phillips will play NHL games and have a career. Might be one who never cements a role but he has the feet, size, skill, mentality that should allow for a decent NHL career and the tools to top out as 4 or 5. ...... But he'd be much easier to see go than Kaiser.

Rockford should be the petri dish that allows the cream to rise and the dust to settle.

Pronman's latest rankings as May 28, 2024

Tier 1 Elite
Celebrini

Tier 2 Bubble elite, All star
Levshunov

Tier 3 - All star
Yakemchuk, Silayev, Buium

Tier 4 - Bubble all star, top of the lineup player
Catton, Sennecke, Demidov

Tier 5 - top of the lineup player
Parekh, Lindstrom, D!ckinson

Tier 6 bubble top, middle lineup
Solberg, Iginla, Helenius, Jirick, Eiserman, Brandsegg-Nygard, Chernyshov

(That's 18 by the way.)

Tier 7 middle lineup
Luchanko, Beaudin, Wallenius, Elick, Greentree, Connelly, Hage, Eriksson
Boisvert, Latourneau, and several more.
- boilermaker100

What I find most curious about thius new revised pronman list is hiw he loaded the bottom with players he has never mentiuoned until now...from Russian goalies to large non-goalies with skating issues.

I think we finally got Corey (new lesser gauky ATHLETIC profile look and all) to come out from his curtain....
I suggest you note this lsit and see how absolutely bad it is after the real draft.

Pronman is an enigma. Just go look his final rankings from 2017

- MjulQvist

Enigma is kind.

Wec should be gald this guy isn't amking our picks.

Another of many fine posts, fatty......... You just can't ever be sure if a prospect turns into an NHL player, especially lower rd picks, until he does it. Your Jurco example is a good one.

That's why a CAR is always trading down for more picks. An organIzational philisophy and I think we can all agree they develop a lotta prospects who turn into fine NHL players.

But, it ain't one size fits all and I'd guess there are windows of deviation. KD trying to move up for Moore last yr and already moving up in rd 1 of this draft seems to show he might have a different philosophy than CAR.

As far as when young NHLers click is around the 200 game mark or even 250 games. That's 3 seasons. ....... Reichel is a riddle though. Looks like, for now, the Hawks value him highly and are gonna ride this thing out expecting him to be a useful NHLer. His speed and skill fits two big boxes for KD.
- Mr Ricochet

Is he really? He's only had a little over one full season of experience and he's been up and down as a mid-1st round pick. He has this season to show progress and next to show he really belongs. As they say, development is rarely linear. I'd say he's right on track.

You look at a guy like Kakko, he was much more heralded in his draft year, but has "disappointed" thus far. The caveat here is that they've played him in a much more defensive role - where he's performed admirably (although scratched one game). He's not been given much chance at generating offense (very limited PP time), but maybe he blows up on a team with a top six opportunity.

I'm a Kaiser guy and posted a week into the season the Hawks have their Hammer lite in Kaiser, pencil him in for the next 10 yrs. ........ Still believe that but he's a fine asset and could bring back real value if traded. Same for Phillips, as you mention he shows promise and that's not a fan bot assessment.

Point is, and especially as the trickle/steady flow of prospects are coming to the AHL every yr, KD has real assets that other clubs would covet to improve the Hawks. Another part/phase of the rebuild if you will.

And yes, you wanna be patient with your prospects, and KD can afford to as he has ownership on board, but there is opportunity there for a club to identify your own prospects that you don't think will pan out to move them before the rest of the league knows that.

Move a kid that has a higher value around the league that you don't think is gonna develop into what you had hoped.
- Mr Ricochet

Kaiser is 22 and just about the age he's ready to compete for an NHL job full time. The Hawks need to keep him and most of the other young ones that are down in Rockford and hope 1 or 2 of them continually push thru and make somebody on the NHL roster redundant or expendable in trade. Thats also a good way to manage the bottom end of the salary cap.

I do agree with Paul, and I'm sure you do too, that if an opportunity presents to improve the club you do it. But, of course, it's not always that simple. ....... Some prospects are harder, and scarier, to trade than others even if you are improving the club and for me Kaiser falls into that category. For instance, can Kaiser be the next Faber? Probably not but he doesn't have to be to be at least a useful NHLer and he just might but there is a nice floor there.

I believe Phillips will play NHL games and have a career. Might be one who never cements a role but he has the feet, size, skill, mentality that should allow for a decent NHL career and the tools to top out as 4 or 5. ...... But he'd be much easier to see go than Kaiser.

Rockford should be the petri dish that allows the cream to rise and the dust to settle.
- Mr Ricochet

Good on Faber for taking advantage of an opportunity (Spurgeon's injury), but the fact of the matter if he was still with the Kings, he would at best be 3rd pairing behind Doughty, Roy, and possibly Spence.

Also, the Kings got a PPG player in Fiala, so they didn't lose on the deal, they traded from excess and got a very productive forward. Faber would not have made a difference in how the Kings ended up, regular or post season.

I do agree with Paul, and I'm sure you do too, that if an opportunity presents to improve the club you do it. But, of course, it's not always that simple. ....... Some prospects are harder, and scarier, to trade than others even if you are improving the club and for me Kaiser falls into that category. For instance, can Kaiser be the next Faber? Probably not but he doesn't have to be to be at least a useful NHLer and he just might but there is a nice floor there.

I believe Phillips will play NHL games and have a career. Might be one who never cements a role but he has the feet, size, skill, mentality that should allow for a decent NHL career and the tools to top out as 4 or 5. ...... But he'd be much easier to see go than Kaiser.

Rockford should be the petri dish that allows the cream to rise and the dust to settle.
- Mr Ricochet

I could just be jaded, but Phillips seems like Clendenning 2.0 to me. Lots of skating and activity, but not enough production/effectiveness to be exciting.

Wiz's favorite group of Blackhawks fans - the CHGO guys - had Soupy on today.
Haven't watched yet,but in general I like Campbell, I always felt he would have been a good fit on the other 2 Cup teams