But he did and he isn't. Also, in those 150 games he was and is receiving significant minutes. It's not like he is EJ or Andrae playing sparingly or not at all, he was getting nearly 20 min a night. We're probably going to disagree on whether nearly 3000 minutes of ice time means something towards development. I think it means he's had quite the opportunity already to develop and show progress.

Andrae would kill for the benefit of the doubt that Drysdale get's from the coaches. If you are going to let the kids make mistakes and learn from them, for 99% of the players, Torts is the wrong coach.
- Flyers_01

100%

I was going to wait some but I don't think it's going to change. So I'll post my thoughts now on the Luchanko situation. What do we want out of the player? To be a good middle 6 two way forward, or are we looking for more? That is the question. Luchanko is clearly a smart player who can hold his own out there and play a decent game at 18. Pretty impressive. His strengths are his skating, his hockey IQ and all around play. What he needs to improve on is using his speed to attack offensively at top speed consistently and grow in strength on his skates. He needs to polish and improve his offensive game. Due to playing against NHL players regularly, he is not going to get enough "reps" offensively to do that in the NHL right now. Down in juniors he will get heavy ice time and far more opportunity to polish and improve his offensive skill. While the experience is good, keeping him in the NHL could actually retard his development as a player, rather than improve it. Players in his situation often hit a plateau offensively, get frustrated. With the pressure of wanting to produce and please the coaching staff, they will often fall back into conservative play and focus on being competent defensively and playing a team game. That is not what we want from Luchanko at this point in his development. We want him in a situation where he can be aggressive, take chances and push offensive play to develop that side of his game. That will best happen back in juniors. Not in the NHL. If the Flyers keep him up, they're well on the way to developing a good middle 6 player rather than the potential of a player to be more. The latter is what they need. Hopefully the Flyers do the right thing.

The almost have to give him the benefit of the doubt. torts said he wanted jd in the trade, they traded the #5 oa pick for him. The flyers already look foolish for cg stating that he did not want to play here -- so really what choice do they have?

FWIW - I am in complete agreement with your statement at EA
- corduroy

They do and it's not for hockey reasons, it's for the reasons you stated. If Drysdale was JAG (just another guy), is there any doubt that Torts would treat him differently based on his on ice performance?

Just like always, Sanheim took the puck to the net and couldn't finish. That's my point. I want Drysdale out there in OT.
- jd250

LOL, Drysdale will play the entire OT? How many OT game winners has Sanheim scored? How many has Drysdale scored? Any idea.

Last night, you posted and criticized Sanheim for giving up the puck. I'll link to the post if necessary. Your comments were absurd. Sanheim made the right play.

It's why I laugh hysterically when you post that people have never played the game or that you have to watch the game. You can't get it right no matter what you do.

Difference is Drysdale high 1st round pick. Andrae mid 2nd round. 1st rounders always get more benefit of the doubt
- WhiskeyMan

Frost was drafted in the first round. How much benefit of the doubt has been given overall?

Frost was drafted in the first round. How much benefit of the doubt has been given overall?
- MJL

to a lesser degree you can include Farabee as well.

I was going to wait some but I don't think it's going to change. So I'll post my thoughts now on the Luchanko situation. What do we want out of the player? To be a good middle 6 two way forward, or are we looking for more? That is the question. Luchanko is clearly a smart player who can hold his own out there and play a decent game at 18. Pretty impressive. His strengths are his skating, his hockey IQ and all around play. What he needs to improve on is using his speed to attack offensively at top speed consistently and grow in strength on his skates. He needs to polish and improve his offensive game. Due to playing against NHL players regularly, he is not going to get enough "reps" offensively to do that in the NHL right now. Down in juniors he will get heavy ice time and far more opportunity to polish and improve his offensive skill. While the experience is good, keeping him in the NHL could actually retard his development as a player, rather than improve it. Players in his situation often hit a plateau offensively, get frustrated. With the pressure of wanting to produce and please the coaching staff, they will often fall back into conservative play and focus on being competent defensively and playing a team game. That is not what we want from Luchanko at this point in his development. We want him in a situation where he can be aggressive, take chances and push offensive play to develop that side of his game. That will best happen back in juniors. Not in the NHL. If the Flyers keep him up, they're well on the way to developing a good middle 6 player rather than the potential of a player to be more. The latter is what they need. Hopefully the Flyers do the right thing.
- MJL

Not an exact parallel but it makes me think of Coots. Coots was a much better player than Jett when he made the big club but the point i am making has to do with usage.

We will never know what Coots ceiling might have been because the Flyers deployed him based on need, not development and there was certainly no long term plan for him. He filled a need being the most gifted defensive forward on the team but that stifled his offensive growth for at least 5 years and because he was there on the 3rd line they focused their attention on more offensive players who weren't as good defensively.

I would even argue the cumulative wear of hard defensive minutes over the years contributed to his body wearing down.

It's a fine line trying to win short term while planning for long term and god knows the Flyers suck at seeing past the end of the current season, Ed Snider was famous for it and i don't know how much the team has really changed it's outlook since.

The Flyers need to develop the 18 year old player for the future, not play him based on a perceived need by the coach in a supposed rebuilding year. The right place for him now is not the NHL.

Frost was drafted in the first round. How much benefit of the doubt has been given overall?
- MJL

Who drafted Frost?
Who traded for Drysdale?

to a lesser degree you can include Farabee as well.
- Flyfly

laughton was taken in the 1st has been given the benefit of the doubt his whole career

Give Drysdale a full year to play under Torts

laughton was taken in the 1st has been given the benefit of the doubt his whole career
- 2Real

Scott "The Room" Laughton is getting his name put in the rafters when he retires The most influential Flyers player since Bobby Clarke.

laughton was taken in the 1st has been given the benefit of the doubt his whole career
- 2Real

not at first... he was sent down a bunch. And now he is the Flyers Culture Czar

Who drafted Frost?
Who traded for Drysdale?
- WhiskeyMan

What does that have to do with anything?

Who drafted Frost?
Who traded for Drysdale?
- WhiskeyMan

You said first round picks get more leeway. Are you now amending your statement?

I was going to wait some but I don't think it's going to change. So I'll post my thoughts now on the Luchanko situation. What do we want out of the player? To be a good middle 6 two way forward, or are we looking for more? That is the question. Luchanko is clearly a smart player who can hold his own out there and play a decent game at 18. Pretty impressive. His strengths are his skating, his hockey IQ and all around play. What he needs to improve on is using his speed to attack offensively at top speed consistently and grow in strength on his skates. He needs to polish and improve his offensive game. Due to playing against NHL players regularly, he is not going to get enough "reps" offensively to do that in the NHL right now. Down in juniors he will get heavy ice time and far more opportunity to polish and improve his offensive skill. While the experience is good, keeping him in the NHL could actually retard his development as a player, rather than improve it. Players in his situation often hit a plateau offensively, get frustrated. With the pressure of wanting to produce and please the coaching staff, they will often fall back into conservative play and focus on being competent defensively and playing a team game. That is not what we want from Luchanko at this point in his development. We want him in a situation where he can be aggressive, take chances and push offensive play to develop that side of his game. That will best happen back in juniors. Not in the NHL. If the Flyers keep him up, they're well on the way to developing a good middle 6 player rather than the potential of a player to be more. The latter is what they need. Hopefully the Flyers do the right thing.
- MJL

Yeah, you want kids to experiment, take risks and assert themselves in a lower stakes environment. Grow their offensive repertoire, find the limits of their talent and discover how to stay on the knife's edge of risk/reward.

Very few players can grow offensively as quickly at the NHL level due to the stakes.

Like how many seasons did we spend wondering when Coots, JWill, Zubrus, NP and others would take the next step offensively? Meanwhile dudes like Carter, Richards and G got that extra year to spread their wings in junior and were much better off for it.

if Frost can stay average, you can live with it, he brings other stuff to the table. Ryan P and Coots needs to be lights out, someone that can take that a big draw.
- wcorvette

My worry with Poehling is that last year was an anomoly and he is now back to the non roster player he was prior. It is still just game 3 so we got to be patient with players. All players struggle at some point during a season.

We will need to wait and see where guys are at in December. Most likely some guys who were struggling will have bounced back while some players who were doing well will now be struggling

Frost was drafted in the first round. How much benefit of the doubt has been given overall?
- MJL

Plenty as he is still a Flyer.

look at Cam York as an example of how Torts could help Drysdale

My worry with Poehling is that last year was an anomoly and he is now back to the non roster player he was prior. It is still just game 3 so we got to be patient with players. All players struggle at some point during a season.

We will need to wait and see where guys are at in December. Most likely some guys who were struggling will have bounced back while some players who were doing well will now be struggling
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

It wasn't an anomaly. All of the data told the story. The coach fell in love with the player. Elevated him in the lineup. The results weren't there. He was still the same player. Just getting more ice time. Still the same 4th line player who skates well with hands of stone. He's a 4th liner.

But he did and he isn't. Also, in those 150 games he was and is receiving significant minutes. It's not like he is EJ or Andrae playing sparingly or not at all, he was getting nearly 20 min a night. We're probably going to disagree on whether nearly 3000 minutes of ice time means something towards development. I think it means he's had quite the opportunity already to develop and show progress.

Andrae would kill for the benefit of the doubt that Drysdale get's from the coaches. If you are going to let the kids make mistakes and learn from them, for 99% of the players, Torts is the wrong coach.
- Flyers_01

He did but the point is he hasnt been playing significant stretches of games. Playing 8 games in a season is not going to further his development. Frost has 232 games and we still have no idea if hes going to be a top 6 C.

Playing a small sample size of games in a season isnt going to help a player develop . Frost at least has 3 seasons over 50 games. Drysdale development is essentially the same as having a young kid play the 4th FWD or 7th D. Sure he is getting games but not enough to properly learn at the NHL level.

My worry with Poehling is that last year was an anomoly and he is now back to the non roster player he was prior. It is still just game 3 so we got to be patient with players. All players struggle at some point during a season.

We will need to wait and see where guys are at in December. Most likely some guys who were struggling will have bounced back while some players who were doing well will now be struggling
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

yea Ryan P the wheels, you hope he can recover his play

Yeah, you want kids to experiment, take risks and assert themselves in a lower stakes environment. Grow their offensive repertoire, find the limits of their talent and discover how to stay on the knife's edge of risk/reward.

Very few players can grow offensively as quickly at the NHL level due to the stakes.

Like how many seasons did we spend wondering when Coots, JWill, Zubrus, NP and others would take the next step offensively? Meanwhile dudes like Carter, Richards and G got that extra year to spread their wings in junior and were much better off for it.
- Tomahawk

Not really seeing the connection on some guys. NoPa busted because of injuries, Williams and Coots did not bust. Zubrus maybe didnt meet his ceiling but another year in juniors is not guaranteed to have changed that. Luchenko could be fine, maybe not. He has the freedom to make mistakes. He is Torts shiny new toy.

Luchenko could be ready, he could not be ready. We wont know until it is too late. Going to juniors is just simply the safer choice as theres no harm in it.

Not that faceoffs aren't important,.especially at key moments of the game but you place way too much value in them. They do have the effect on puck possession that you think they have. The Flyers lost due to defensive coverage breakdowns.
- MJL

I think draws are humongous big while on special teams! If you lose the offensive draw while on the PP you lose 30 seconds of valuable PP time. If you win the draw in the defensive zone while on the PK you have basically killed off a quarter of the other team's PP (assuming you clear the zone after the win). It may be my imagination, but it seems the Flyers are especially bad at special team faceoffs.

He did but the point is he hasnt been playing significant stretches of games. Playing 8 games in a season is not going to further his development. Frost has 232 games and we still have no idea if hes going to be a top 6 C.

Playing a small sample size of games in a season isnt going to help a player develop . Frost at least has 3 seasons over 50 games. Drysdale development is essentially the same as having a young kid play the 4th FWD or 7th D. Sure he is getting games but not enough to properly learn at the NHL level.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

You're conflating different arguments and not getting it. Nobody is saying that Drysdale should be fully developed. It's that he should be further along than he has shown.

look at Cam York as an example of how Torts could help Drysdale
- 2Real

I know this is probably a joke, but I actually wouldn't mind if they sent Drysdale down to the minors for awhile. Is he waiver exempt? I mean, perhaps it would help him regain some confidence.