they haven't even started a full rebuild..........to do that, you have to unload a crap ton of guys who are not going to be easy to unload, unless you give them away for free..................the return for guys like phaneuf, lupul, gardiner, etc will be minimal based on their contracts, health issues, and poor performance.

the only assets you guys have to trade, who would bring anything of real value back, are kessel, kadri, jvr (assuming reilly and nylander are untouchable).....the rest are either untradable, worth nothing because of their contracts or worth nothing simply because they aren't really that good to begin with ....or a combination of both.

if they actually do go through a full rebuild (which i'll believe when i actually see) it's going to take years and years.............this team will be edmonton bad, and probably for just as long.
- sensarmy_11

No need to get rid of Gardiner. A 5 year rebuild is plenty of time for him to prove himself. And Phaneuf will get a decent return. He's got a big salary, but you won't find similar calibre players for less in UFA.

Franson might get a 1st on his own, and Winnik and Santo will get 2nds/3rds. Doubt they move Kadri and JVR. Still need players on the team, and they're Young enough to be valuable contributors after the rebuild.

No need to get rid of Gardiner. A 5 year rebuild is plenty of time for him to prove himself. And Phaneuf will get a decent return. He's got a big salary, but you won't find similar calibre players for less in UFA.

Franson might get a 1st on his own, and Winnik and Santo will get 2nds/3rds. Doubt they move Kadri and JVR. Still need players on the team, and they're Young enough to be valuable contributors after the rebuild.
- Feeling Glucky?

maybe not.......but then all you're giving up is the dollars, not the assets to get him AND the dollars.

unless the leafs eat a significant portion of that contract, the return will be minimal. he's about to turn 30, which means he isn't getting any better (in fact you could make a convincing argument that his play is already declining), and he has a massive cap hit until age 36 or 37..........that's an incredibly hard contract to move.

my point was that, unless you deal kessel (and even then), this rebuild will be very painful and very long........and there is absolutely nothing in the history of this franchise or its fanbase that indicates they'll have the patience to see it through.

maybe not.......but then all you're giving up is the dollars, not the assets to get him AND the dollars.

unless the leafs eat a significant portion of that contract, the return will be minimal. he's about to turn 30, which means he isn't getting any better (in fact you could make a convincing argument that his play is already declining), and he has a massive cap hit until age 36 or 37..........that's an incredibly hard contract to move.

my point was that, unless you deal kessel (and even then), this rebuild will be very painful and very long........and there is absolutely nothing in the history of this franchise or its fanbase that indicates they'll have the patience to see it through.
- sensarmy_11

What do you call the last 11 years?

The fan base is nothing if not patient. It's the media and ownership that haven't been.

But now there's new owners, that own the media, and apparentlY are on board with tearing it down.


On Phaneuf, look at what Philly gave MacDonald. Teams don't care about term if they think the player can help them win now... And teams looking to acquire a top pairing guy as the final piece won't have too many options.

What do you call the last 11 years?

The fan base is nothing if not patient. It's the media and ownership that haven't been.

But now there's new owners, that own the media, and apparentlY are on board with tearing it down.
- Feeling Glucky?

it's a tune we've heard before in toronto.....burke was supposed to have completely rebuilt the team............and we saw what happened.

i'll believe that they're serious about this when guys like kessel, lupul, phaneuf, etc, are wearing new uniforms.

i think certain "die hard" fans, like you, are patient and accepting of a rebuild.........i think the average fan will be at the rink, tossing jerseys and putting bags on thier heads, every time the team has a losing streak.

On Phaneuf, look at what Philly gave MacDonald. Teams don't care about term if they think the player can help them win now... And teams looking to acquire a top pairing guy as the final piece won't have too many options.
- Feeling Glucky?

which team, in a position to be looking for the "final piece", can both afford to fit phaneuf on their roster (for the next 7 years), and are willing to give up "significant" assets to acquire him.

sure, if the leafs are willing to eat like 2.5-3 mil, for the duration of the contract...then lots of teams will pony up some good assets.....but if you're just shipping him out as is, no salary/cap retention, then you won't get anything of significant value for him......maybe a decent prospect and a 2nd rd pick

it's a tune we've heard before in toronto.....burke was supposed to have completely rebuilt the team............and we saw what happened.

i'll believe that they're serious about this when guys like kessel, lupul, phaneuf, etc, are wearing new uniforms.

i think certain "die hard" fans, like you, are patient and accepting of a rebuild.........i think the average fan will be at the rink, tossing jerseys and putting bags on thier heads, every time the team has a losing streak.
- sensarmy_11

Burke made it clear he wasn't committing to a full rebuild. And Liewikie got him booted before he could finish his job. Team was trending up under him, only Leafs playoff team in a while was the one he put together, and then Nonis let it go to poop with some awful signings/trades.

Burke made it clear he wasn't committing to a full rebuild. And Liewikie got him booted before he could finish his job. Team was trending up under him, only Leafs playoff team in a while was the one he put together, and then Nonis let it go to poop with some awful signings/trades.
- Feeling Glucky?

trending up to what? that team....which is essentially the same team as now, plus/minus a couple of guys.......was never going to be a contending team. at best, they would have been a constant playoff team, in the 6-8 range.

like i said, if they're actually committed to this for the long haul, and do it right.......then good on them.........but given the history of this franchise, i won't believe it until i see it.

trending up to what? that team....which is essentially the same team as now, plus/minus a couple of guys.......was never going to be a contending team. at best, they would have been a constant playoff team, in the 6-8 range.

like i said, if they're actually committed to this for the long haul, and do it right.......then good on them.........but given the history of this franchise, i won't believe it until i see it.
- sensarmy_11

better than trending down, like oel Bryan Murray has managed.

trending up to what? that team....which is essentially the same team as now, plus/minus a couple of guys.......was never going to be a contending team. at best, they would have been a constant playoff team, in the 6-8 range.

like i said, if they're actually committed to this for the long haul, and do it right.......then good on them.........but given the history of this franchise, i won't believe it until i see it.
- sensarmy_11

They were getting better every year with Burke, partially because he kept making smart trades... Nonis, not so much.

honestly its sad how otften you need to bring this stuff up.. years later..
- senstroll

this article was publiished a month ago............not years ago??


The Globe and Mail

Published Tuesday, Jan. 06 2015

Again, I pose the question, if a team can lose that many games in a row, what does that say about teams that STILL can't amass as many wins as them?
- prock

Ottawa has lost 22 games this season..........FOUR leas than toronto who have lost 28!!

What does that say about the make-be-leafs???-

Ottawa has lost 22 games this season..........FOUR leas than toronto who have lost 28!!

What does that say about the make-be-leafs???-

- Doppleganger

You're kidding right?

I don't even want to laugh at you anymore. I feel sorry for you.

Sounds like you’ve got the same commitment to winning as Melnyk now.

Burke made it clear he wasn't committing to a full rebuild. And Liewikie got him booted before he could finish his job. Team was trending up under him, only Leafs playoff team in a while was the one he put together, and then Nonis let it go to poop with some awful signings/trades.
- Feeling Glucky?

Burke was committed to building through the draft, but jumped at a chance to "jumpstart" the rebuild by trading two firsts and a second for Kessel. Six or seven years later I think we can concede that it did not work, and now it seems Kessel might be traded to bring back some picks or prospects, so end ends up being a wasted decade.






Brian Burke April 10, 2012

“I’m trying to build a championship team here. And it’s very hard to see today, but the building blocks, the keys to what you need — the Phil Kessels, the Joffrey Lupuls, the Jake Gardiners, the Dion Phaneufs, the second line, all those things — have been put into place. And that’s what cannot be overlooked as you analyze and dissect the season. Even in a season that’s marked by failure, I think we’re going in the right direction in terms of building for the future. It’s just hard to see today.”

You're kidding right?

I don't even want to laugh at you anymore. I feel sorry for you.
- prock

You're the fool we all know you to be. You keep on and on about the WHOPPING 2 more wins the leafs have, but don't mention the three more games they've played than the Senators.

So, on the other side of the coin is the four more losses the leafs have, than the Senators.


Even for you that's pretty weak.

You're the fool we all know you to be. You keep on and on about the WHOPPING 2 more wins the leafs have, but don't mention the three more games they've played than the Senators.

So, on the other side of the coin is the four more losses the leafs have, than the Senators.


Even for you that's pretty weak.
- Doppleganger

For someone that's blabbered on about loser points so many times in the past, to start disputing that they're losses altogether is pretty special of you.

we are all a bunch of (frank)ing morons for having participated in this thread, it's confirmed. there is nothing left to gain. let us go gently into that good night.




SHUT THIS female dog DOWN


edit: god damnit this isn't even leaf agony. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THREAD. SHUT BOTH DOWN.

Ottawa has lost 22 games this season..........FOUR leas than toronto who have lost 28!!

What does that say about the make-be-leafs???-

- Doppleganger

Leafs get a better pick?

Burke was committed to building through the draft, but jumped at a chance to "jumpstart" the rebuild by trading two firsts and a second for Kessel. Six or seven years later I think we can concede that it did not work, and now it seems Kessel might be traded to bring back some picks or prospects, so end ends up being a wasted decade.






Brian Burke April 10, 2012

“I’m trying to build a championship team here. And it’s very hard to see today, but the building blocks, the keys to what you need — the Phil Kessels, the Joffrey Lupuls, the Jake Gardiners, the Dion Phaneufs, the second line, all those things — have been put into place. And that’s what cannot be overlooked as you analyze and dissect the season. Even in a season that’s marked by failure, I think we’re going in the right direction in terms of building for the future. It’s just hard to see today.”
- Doppleganger

That's an awesome quote with nothing to back up your BS.

So a typical "you" post.

we are all a bunch of (frank)ing morons for having participated in this thread, it's confirmed. there is nothing left to gain. let us go gently into that good night.




SHUT THIS female dog DOWN


edit: god damnit this isn't even leaf agony. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THREAD. SHUT BOTH DOWN.
- Shutdown

All dopps threads should be sterilized.

Leafs get a better pick?
- senstroll

leafs may pick before the Senators, but it does not mean the pick is better. Better odds at winning the lottery, if that's what you mean.

All dopps threads should be sterilized.
- Feeling Glucky?

Not my thread my good friend, it's Spatsos' thread.



Hey, the leafs have two wins this year, Ottawa is a little better with 6 wins this year.

We all should be focused on the lottery, as the playoffs are a non factor in Ontario.

Not my thread my good friend, it's Spatsos' thread.



Hey, the leafs have two wins this year, Ottawa is a little better with 6 wins this year.

We all should be focused on the lottery, as the playoffs are a non factor in Ontario.
- Doppleganger

I meant any thread you commented in.

leafs may pick before the Senators, but it does not mean the pick is better. Better odds at winning the lottery, if that's what you mean.
- Doppleganger

Picking before the sens when both have missed the playoffs is better..no matter how you try to spin it.

I wonder if the sens would be better off had they not traded for Bobby Ryan
Nick Richie, Jakob Silfverberg and Stefan Noesen or Ryan?

For a team thats going to rebuild again...3 prospects is better imo

leafs may pick before the Senators, but it does not mean the pick is better. Better odds at winning the lottery, if that's what you mean.
- Doppleganger

No, it's better. Mainly because we'll get to hear how the Sens tricked us into getting the better prospect/player again.

Picking before the sens when both have missed the playoffs is better..no matter how you try to spin it.

I wonder if the sens would be better off had they not traded for Bobby Ryan
Nick Richie, Jakob Silfverberg and Stefan Noesen or Ryan?

For a team thats going to rebuild again...3 prospects is better imo
- senstroll

Big price to pay for a 50 point second liner.