It's not just the size of the ice surface, it's the style of play that coaches use on it, and the lack of the physical style of play that he needs to get used to in order to play in the NHL.

It was a waste of half a season, as he'd already been there, done that in the previous season.

The leafs should do the right thing by this prospect, and let him know he's going to remain in the AHL for the entire 2015 16 season as well.
- Doppleganger

Well, I guess it might explain why Erik Karlsson can't play two way hockey.

Well, I guess it might explain why Erik Karlsson can't play two way hockey.
- prock

What are you talking about??
Have you not seen him play for the past two months?


Besides, the best player on the leafs, is the NHL poster boy for only playing a one way game, being the last on the ice for practise and first one off, not driving the net to make a play, not taking a hit to make a play and not keeping himself in the best shape he could.


Karlsson's game has improved under the new coach and his new system, he's Plus two on the season, and is playing much mare like he did in his Norris Trophy winning season.


Karlsson is mile and miles better than any D man on the toronto roster.

What are you talking about??
Have you not seen him play for the past two months?


Besides, the best player on the leafs, is the NHL poster boy for only playing a one way game, being the last on the ice for practise and first one off, not driving the net to make a play, not taking a hit to make a play and not keeping himself in the best shape he could.


Karlsson's game has improved under the new coach and his new system, he's Plus two on the season, and is playing much mare like he did in his Norris Trophy winning season.


Karlsson is mile and miles better than any D man on the toronto roster.
- Doppleganger

Kessel > Karlsson defensively.

You are garbage people made of garbage

Kessel > Karlsson defensively.
- prock

Karlsson is a PLUS 1, and Kessel is a MINUS 22

You are garbage people made of garbage
- Shutdown

Your team having troubles in California?

Karlsson is a PLUS 1, and Kessel is a MINUS 22


- Doppleganger

Interesting.

Therefore, Holzer is a better d-man than Karlsson?

Jesus, if Karlsson's your team's best piece, and he's worth less than Holzer, how are you going to start rebuilding properly?

I know the Draft & Develop method of building a team to get to the Stanley Cup Finals, is completely foreign to you, but you'll get it eventually if the leafs actually emulate
the Senators, who have done it in the past, and are on the road to doing it again.


The Senators had about 15 players, on their 2007 Stanley Cup Finalist team, that were Drafted and developed by Senator Management.


I know you don't completely recognize that most teams that have reached the Stanley Cup Finals over the past decade have followed the Draft & Develop method of building a team ......... you're clinging onto the tried a true method of failure that the leafs have used over that same period of time.
- Doppleganger

Yes, but the teams that made it to the finals using the draft and develop method that the Leafs seem to be following now actually went ahead and drafted players who could be difference makers(in a good way)... Who on the Senators matches that description? All I see are supporting players, and players that do more harm than good.

Interesting.

Therefore, Holzer is a better d-man than Karlsson?

Jesus, if Karlsson's your team's best piece, and he's worth less than Holzer, how are you going to start rebuilding properly?
- Feeling Glucky?

Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM, and Ottawa would take back enough of Karlssons' Salary to make the trade even up contract cost wise.

Yes, but the teams that made it to the finals using the draft and develop method that the Leafs seem to be following now actually went ahead and drafted players who could be difference makers(in a good way)... Who on the Senators matches that description? All I see are supporting players, and players that do more harm than good.
- Feeling Glucky?

Well this just proves your lack of ability in accessing the talent in young prospects, and how they may potentially progress.


I doubt very much you've watched any of the the Senators games over the past two months.

Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM, and Ottawa would take back enough of Karlssons' Salary to make the trade even up contract cost wise.
- Doppleganger

Well, based on your logic, of +/- being king of defensive stats, Holzer, who we traded would be one, and Robidas would be the other. Both are obviously superior defensively, which is what you want from a defenseman.

Well this just proves your lack of ability in accessing the talent in young prospects, and how they may potentially progress.


I doubt very much you've watched any of the the Senators games over the past two months.
- Doppleganger

I think it proves the opposite.

Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM, and Ottawa would take back enough of Karlssons' Salary to make the trade even up contract cost wise.
- Doppleganger

Dopps, by the criteria YOU JUST USED, Petter Granberg and Stephane Robidas.

That's YOUR choice, using YOUR criteria. That's his point.

Well this just proves your lack of ability in accessing the talent in young prospects, and how they may potentially progress.


I doubt very much you've watched any of the the Senators games over the past two months.
- Doppleganger

Actually, I would say that this just proves your lack of ability in accessing the talent in young prospects, and how they may potentially progress.

I doubt very much you've watched any of the the Senators games over the past two months, without goggles on.

You forget, we saw these late season runs perennially around 2006 to 2008.

Ottawa is ahead of their pace, at this time last season, after 62 games.

Last year Ottawa still had Jason Spezza, who, as the top Center, brought a ton of offence, and drew the opponents top defensive lines and defensive pairings, insulating players below him in the line up.

With his request to be traded, Ottawa has elevated a number players higher up the depth shart, into newer roles than they played last year and they also have three rookies playing a regular role in the majority of their games.

So all things considered, and with the Senators re-build suffered a set back with both Alfredssons' and Spezzas' unplanned departures, all in all it's progressing in the right direction.

Now it they can keep up the incredible pace of play they've had over the past 10 or 15 games, then they should be able to end up with more points than last season.

Dopps, by the criteria YOU JUST USED, Petter Granberg and Stephane Robidas.

That's YOUR choice, using YOUR criteria. That's his point.
- prock

You're mixing up two different posts, and spinning your whacked out logic, to somehow prove that there is no leafs dMan that you would trade for a former Norris trophy winner, who will probably be the leading Dman in points by the end of the season.


So if you were the leafs GM, you would turn down a trade for Karlsson, for either of those two players.

So if you were the leafs GM, you would turn down a trade for Karlsson, for either of those two players.
- Doppleganger

YOU WOULD. You just said, in as many words, above, that YOU WOULD.

That's his point.

Hummm... Ottawa Rookie Mike Hoffman (0.75 Million) has 23 goals, 40 points and is a plus 24.

leaf superstar Phil Kessel (8 Million) has 23 goals, 51 points ( has played 5 more games) and is a Minus 22


So that's $7.25 Million for a paltry 11 more points.





Ottawa has two rookies (Hoffman and Stone) with 40 points each, both are Plus players (+12 & +24 playing in the "top 6 " forwards for the Senators.

The leafs only have two of their "top 6" forwards with more points, and none of their top six forwards have plus rating.

Well, based on your logic, of +/- being king of defensive stats, Holzer, who we traded would be one, and Robidas would be the other. Both are obviously superior defensively, which is what you want from a defenseman.
- Feeling Glucky?

So trading Robidas or Holtzerm for Karllsson, would not make the leafs a better team, but a worse team.


Okay.

Your team having troubles in California?
- Doppleganger

Yes

So trading Robidas or Holtzerm for Karllsson, would not make the leafs a better team, but a worse team.


Okay.






- Doppleganger

yes.


by your logic.

yes.


by your logic.
- Feeling Glucky?

My logic was one for one (Karlsson for any leaf Dman) at no extra cost as the Senators would retain whatever portion of Karlssons' salary.

Please tell me the names of every defenceman on the leafs roster, that YOU would not trade straight up for Karlsson, if YOU were GM, and Ottawa would take back enough of Karlssons' Salary to make the trade even up contract cost wise.
- Doppleganger

So if you were GM, you would not trade Robidas or Holtzerm straight up for Karlsson.

Ok.

My logic was one for one (Karlsson for any leaf Dman) at no extra cost as the Senators would retain whatever portion of Karlssons' salary.








So if you were GM, you would not trade Robidas or Holtzerm straight up for Karlsson.

Ok.
- Doppleganger

Using your standards for analyzing defensemen, Robidas is clearly the superior defender.

So trading Robidas or Holtzerm for Karllsson, would not make the leafs a better team, but a worse team.


Okay.


- Doppleganger

That is what you said, yes.

Using your standards for analyzing defensemen, Robidas is clearly the superior defender.
- Feeling Glucky?

My standards include everything a player brings to the table, defence, offence, work ethic, sportsmanship, team work and whether or not they give a shit when their team is out of the playoff race.


But you've proven yourself as a GM, by refusing a straight trade of Karlsson for Robidas, which would NOT, in your mind, improve the leafs.