Well I'm capable of listening to the people who have watched Kassian every single game he played..yeah, theres that. I'm not counting the other half of the season where he was in the AHL either...yeah, there's that too.
- boonerbuck

Fair enough, he now has new teammates, new system and new culture. He might be a complete bust or he could become a great power forward. It's too early to tell either way. On the flipside there is no guarntee that Hodgson takes his top 6 roll in Buffalo and becomes everything everyone thought he would be either.

Once again, you're missing the point, if we have to rely on our 3rd line to score for us in the playoffs we're not going anywhere anyways. Our fortunes were always going to be placed upon the Sedins and Kesler, not Hodgson. But even WITH Hodgson centering the 2nd PP, we STILL weren't scoring, are we a less skilled team with him gone? Yes. Was it strange timing that he was traded? Yes, but his stock was at his highest, and a bad playoff (or injury for that matter which is also possible/likely in the playoffs) might have dropped his stock tremendously. Unless he wins the Conn Smythe, there's no way he would be worth 1-for-1 a top 6 forward/top 4 D in the summer. This is not propaganda, this is FACT, your revisionist history notwithstanding. We made it to Game 7 of the SCF without Hodgson playing a significant role. Time will tell if we made a mistake or not, I tend to think not, we'll see after the run is over with.
- DariusKnight

Thank you

Gillis is big on selling high and buying low. I'ts money puck. Hodgsons value would get diminished in the next three months and it's at an all time high right now. It's tighter hockey now. AV gave him sheltered minutes and you can bet on your life that coaches would go over game tapes and try to exploit our third line. If we were on the road as soon as our third line went out the other teams top line would go out. Obviously he was our future number one/two center but if he wants more ice time he wasn't going to get it here. He had to be traded and i have no doubt Gillis realized this was the best time to trade him. In the off season we would not have been able to get Kassian for him because his offensive would have started to dry up. Especially in the playoffs. Kassian is going to be a beats in the playoffs. Mark my words. He's ready.
- Boinker

I don't agree with your assesment of value and when. It makes no sense that Hodgson's value would fall. If he was going to move Hodgson in the summer, it would give him a chance to shop him to every GM. Dimished minutes for a blue chip rookie going into the playoffs would not mean less value....scouts know what they are getting even if his minutes are managed. Thats a giant assumption that makes little sense. We will never know what kind of deal could have been made if Gillis took his time but what you are saying makes no sense at all.... and if we apply your same logic to Schneider...we shouldnt expect full value from him then.

we suck.

i think you gave away your current insurance policy and future offensive leader for a kid who you think will be a bertuzzi clone, only according to buffalo fans and some watchers, may not get there for a couple years. I think that the canucks could've won (and still could) a cup this year by embracing the puck possession skill game that they've played very well. i think that last year you met the only team in the league who played like the 1970's flyers and it scared your GM into making a move that doesn't make you immediately better.

basically, I think you made a summer move that tries to change the identity of a team at the trade deadline, which seems like a bad idea. and i think that in a conference with the blues, press, kings, etc. that play lock down d or have great goaltending, but aren't overly physical like the bruins were last year, i think you gave away your best edge in having true scoring depth.

i might be wrong, just what i think. if you're convinced the other way, then power to you.
- chester97

Yeah, But by the time we made it to the SCfinals, their wasn't much left in the tank, players like Kesler were already injured and not playing up to their potential.

The big body guy who can crash and bang out there is supposed to alleviate some of the abuse Kesler has to dole out.

I get the theory, I just don't know if Kassian is the guy who can do that now.

We'll see I guess.

I don't agree with your assesment of value and when. It makes no sense that Hodgson's value would fall. If he was going to move Hodgson in the summer, it would give him a chance to shop him to every GM. Dimished minutes for a blue chip rookie going into the playoffs would not mean less value....scouts know what they are getting even if his minutes are managed. Thats a giant assumption that makes little sense. We will never know what kind of deal could have been made if Gillis took his time but what you are saying makes no sense at all.... and if we apply your same logic to Schneider...we shouldnt expect full value from him then.
- boonerbuck

I think Gillis targeted Kassian. They probably had a couple of players they'd trade Hodgson for. They probably didnt need to shop him and also the Canucks decided to go for the cup this year. They got a center who is extremely talented defensively and some much needed size and grit. We're better today than we were before the deadline. also I think our future is brighter than ever. One of Luongo or schneider is getting traded and you can bet the return will be a lot better than Hodgson.

Wellwood stats:

2005/2006 Toronto Maple Leafs (True Rookie Year)
GP: 81 Goals: 11 Assists: 34 Points: 45 PIM:14 +/-: 0

Hodgson stats:

2011/2012 Vancouver Canucks/Buffalo Sabres (Also True Rookie Year)
GP: 64 Goals: 16 Assists: 17 Points: 33 PIM: 8 +/-: 8

I'd say the comparison is apt, both were projected to be first line/second line natural playmaking centers. Both played most of the season on the third line, Wellwood on a very bad Maple Leafs team yet his plus/minus is even. Wellwood didn't have the intangibles that Hodgson brings, nor did he score the goals, but Hodgson's +/- is only +8 having played on a very good Vancouver team that is up there in GF/GA with great goaltending.
- DariusKnight

Stand by that and we'll see who looks foolish as time goes on...I don't expect it to be me. It's a very, very weak comparison. I don't expect one person (not even Wellwood) would agree with you. perhaps you're visionary -- but I doubt it.

I don't agree with your assesment of value and when. It makes no sense that Hodgson's value would fall. If he was going to move Hodgson in the summer, it would give him a chance to shop him to every GM. Dimished minutes for a blue chip rookie going into the playoffs would not mean less value....scouts know what they are getting even if his minutes are managed. Thats a giant assumption that makes little sense. We will never know what kind of deal could have been made if Gillis took his time but what you are saying makes no sense at all.... and if we apply your same logic to Schneider...we shouldnt expect full value from him then.
- boonerbuck

I agree with you.

Hmmm... Whose value falls during the summer?

The kid who was making a case for the Calder, was one of the top 5 scorers on one of the best teams in the league that went deep in the playoffs?

Or the kid who couldn't crack the line-up of a non-playoff team for most of the season, and was disappointing when he did...

Something tells me, Hodgson's value would have been sky-high during the summer and Kassian would have been the subject of "is he a bust or isn't he" talk in Buffalo and around the league.

Fair enough, he now has new teammates, new system and new culture. He might be a complete bust or he could become a great power forward. It's too early to tell either way. On the flipside there is no guarntee that Hodgson takes his top 6 roll in Buffalo and becomes everything everyone thought he would be either.
- fiveandagame

I will care little about what they will become in the future til after the playoffs. I don't think this trade makes us better instantly like people are claiming. If this trade is for the future,,,then it didnt have to happen now. If we fail in the playoffs...it will be obvious the wrong types of trades were made and I'm not talking about Kassian for Hodgson. I'm talking about team needs that were not filled in favour of this trade.

PETER, great read!

This trade could go either way and personally I'm 50/50 on who is going to pay off more for their respective team.
But the Pens had a similar situation with Malkin, Crosby, and Stall and they chose not to let Stall go. That decision has been paying dividends with Crosby and Malkin's injury history the past few seasons.
Stall and Cody may be different in terms of style and ability but as the Pens have proven it never hurts to have a capable 3rd line centre as opposed to the stereotypical checking line center.
Just playing Devil's advocate.
- Fedorsbrokenjaw

fixed. there's a reason it was a great read. No offense intended Ian.

I think Gillis targeted Kassian. They probably had a couple of players they'd trade Hodgson for. They probably didnt need to shop him and also the Canucks decided to go for the cup this year. They got a center who is extremely talented defensively and some much needed size and grit. We're better today than we were before the deadline. also I think our future is brighter than ever. One of Luongo or schneider is getting traded and you can bet the return will be a lot better than Hodgson.
- Boinker

Kassian is normally a winger. He can play at C though, and did a bit in Jr.

Again, I stated that in goal scoring and intangibles, Hodgson has that over on Wellwood, but that Wellwood was better defensively and could handle playing against the top lines. I realize it's somewhat of a poor comparison since Wellwood was established already when the Canucks got into the 2009 and 2010 playoffs and Hodgson had he not been traded would have only been a rookie.
- DariusKnight

Wellwood rarely (if ever) played against "the top lines".

Yeah, But by the time we made it to the SCfinals, their wasn't much left in the tank, players like Kesler were already injured and not playing up to their potential.

The big body guy who can crash and bang out there is supposed to alleviate some of the abuse Kesler has to dole out.

I get the theory, I just don't know if Kassian is the guy who can do that now.

We'll see I guess.
- moondawg

wouldn't that mean a third centre who could slide into a 2nd line role and help out with scoring would be a huge benefit?

Well I'm capable of listening to the people who have watched Kassian every single game he played..yeah, theres that. I'm not counting the other half of the season where he was in the AHL either...yeah, there's that too.
- boonerbuck

Kassian won't come into his own until after his 25th birthday, IMO. That's what puzzles me about this deal, simple getting a banger at the expense of Hodgson doesn't compute with me.

Do I think Kassian will be a good power forward, yes I do. But that's not gonna help us win a Stanley Cup this season...I've been wrong once before though!

wouldn't that mean a third centre who could slide into a 2nd line role and help out with scoring would be a huge benefit?
- chester97

I was thinking that myself.

We have Schroeder still. I like his game. Smart skilled player. He doesn't quite have the vision of Hodgson but he's got the same shot and he's fast and can play better in his own end. Perfect third line center for this team going forward...he'll eventually be in the top 6. So right now our center depth going into the playoffs is.

Sedin
Kesler
Pahlsson
Malhotra
Lapierre
Schroeder
Reinchrept

Im happy with that. Our 3rd, 4th and 5th centers are very hard to play against. Hodgson would chip in here and there but his corsi rating was horrendus. I honestly dont put much stock into that rating because it makes Raymond look like a stud when he actually kinda sucks this year... but when your -5 a game in terms of shots againts your not helping your team in your own end.
- Boinker

Well, if his corsi sucked then he is even better than I thought. Hodgson produced way more chances offensively than he 'gave up' defensively.

As for Schroeder: he has proven nothing at the NHL level. In fact, from what he's shown so far he's not going to be much of an NHL player. It seems he's improved defensively under McTavish, but I would call it a stretch to say he's better defensively than Hodgson. He hasn't shown he has any consistency or grit either. He's no more than a prospect for the distant future, IMO.

Once again, you're missing the point, if we have to rely on our 3rd line to score for us in the playoffs we're not going anywhere anyways. Our fortunes were always going to be placed upon the Sedins and Kesler, not Hodgson. But even WITH Hodgson centering the 2nd PP, we STILL weren't scoring, are we a less skilled team with him gone? Yes. Was it strange timing that he was traded? Yes, but his stock was at his highest, and a bad playoff (or injury for that matter which is also possible/likely in the playoffs) might have dropped his stock tremendously. Unless he wins the Conn Smythe, there's no way he would be worth 1-for-1 a top 6 forward/top 4 D in the summer. This is not propaganda, this is FACT, your revisionist history notwithstanding. We made it to Game 7 of the SCF without Hodgson playing a significant role. Time will tell if we made a mistake or not, I tend to think not, we'll see after the run is over with.
- DariusKnight

It is absolutely not a fact. You have no idea of knowing what he is worth, was worth, or will be worth. Just another opinion...like the rest of us.

I agree with you.

Hmmm... Whose value falls during the summer?

The kid who was making a case for the Calder, was one of the top 5 scorers on one of the best teams in the league that went deep in the playoffs?

Or the kid who couldn't crack the line-up of a non-playoff team for most of the season, and was disappointing when he did...

Something tells me, Hodgson's value would have been sky-high during the summer and Kassian would have been the subject of "is he a bust or isn't he" talk in Buffalo and around the league.
- DrChristianTroy

Agree. Until Kassian proves otherwise he is in the same category as Bernier when we got him.

Well, if his corsi sucked then he is even better than I thought. Hodgson produced way more chances offensively than he 'gave up' defensively.

As for Schroeder: he has proven nothing at the NHL level. In fact, from what he's shown so far he's not going to be much of an NHL player. It seems he's improved defensively under McTavish, but I would call it a stretch to say he's better defensively than Hodgson. He hasn't shown he has any consistency or grit either. He's no more than a prospect for the distant future, IMO.
- rdfred

The people who are calling Hodgson a defensive liability are forming their opinions from AV's reluctance to play him in defensive situations, not observation or reality... Hodgson's positioning & anticipation were superb in all 3 zones. Just because he didn't defend via shadow harrassment doesn't mean he wasn't plugging passing lanes/shooting lanes and helping the D down low.

wouldn't that mean a third centre who could slide into a 2nd line role and help out with scoring would be a huge benefit?
- chester97

That is not the vision Canucks management had apparently. They think that Kassian can do all the hitting and clear space for guys like Kesler. Like I said, we will see.

And remember Samuelson was injured for the PO's last year, we do have a healthy Booth joining the Top 6 for this years run.

That is not the vision Canucks management had apparently. They think that Kassian can do all the hitting and clear space for guys like Kesler. Like I said, we will see.

And remember Samuelson was injured for the PO's last year, we do have a healthy Booth joining the Top 6 for this years run.
- moondawg

i watched that coyotes game the other night, and booth was benched and then put on the 3rd line while raymond stayed on the 2nd for awhile. i think AV is a decent coach but i didn't understand that.

The people who are calling Hodgson a defensive liability are forming their opinions from AV's reluctance to play him in defensive situations, not observation or reality... Hodgson's positioning & anticipation were superb in all 3 zones. Just because he didn't defend via shadow harrassment doesn't mean he wasn't plugging passing lanes/shooting lanes and helping the D down low.
- DrChristianTroy

Hodgson was on the PK for the Sabres last night. They got a shut out.

I find it crazy that AV sticks Cody on the 4rth line for a number of games...ice time was discussed soon after... and then Cody was traded. Since speculation is running wild the last few days... lets speculate on that a little.

i watched that coyotes game the other night, and booth was benched and then put on the 3rd line while raymond stayed on the 2nd for awhile. i think AV is a decent coach but i didn't understand that.
- chester97

Out of the doghouse and off the team-> Hodgson

In the doghouse-> Booth

When Ballard is healthy...Booth will be out of the doghouse and Ballard in. By the time the playoffs come around, it will be Kassian sitting in the doghouse.

i watched that coyotes game the other night, and booth was benched and then put on the 3rd line while raymond stayed on the 2nd for awhile. i think AV is a decent coach but i didn't understand that.
- chester97

Neither did we, or the play by play team, or any analyst out there.

John and Shorty were wondering if he was injured, and then he came out for a shift and they were like, wtf is up? As was I.

AV's doghouse can be busy at times. My guess is that Booth missed a defensive responsibility in his zone and voila, benched.

Where Raymond can fall down in the offensive zone all night, and as long as he ties up sticks in the Dzone, he will get the shifts all night long. Its a head scratcher..

fair enough. guess I'm of the mindset that it's pretty dramatic. especially when the third line centre then becomes either malholtra or pahlson, which hurts higgins and lapierre's offence as well.
- chester97

I do agree with you on that point. Huge drop off from Hodgson to Malhotra or Pahlsson when it comes to creating offense. But I think the Canucks now realize the NHL could care less about the entertainment value of hockey in the playoffs. Especially in the later rounds. ("It's a playoff game! It's already exciting right?!") So it's all about being able to check and check and check and check....and then hopefully score on a turnover.

Kesler got bogged down with checking duties last year so I think the plan this year is to have line 3a and line 3b to do the checking. The Sedins will be doing their usual thing (eating up time with the top defenders and accomplishing pretty much nothing offensively) leaving Kesler and Booth to generate most of the offense with their speed, net drive and shoot first approach.

Hodgson was on the PK for the Sabres last night. They got a shut out.

I find it crazy that AV sticks Cody on the 4rth line for a number of games...ice time was discussed soon after... and then Cody was traded. Since speculation is running wild the last few days... lets speculate on that a little.
- boonerbuck

So it's AV's fault that Hodgson was traded... Unbelieveable, the guy is the winningest coach in Canucks history, has won the division almost every year he's coached here, only coach to win us a President's Trophy, one of only 3 who's gotten us to the Cup Finals and one of 2 to get us within a game of the Cup, yet because he wouldn't play a ROOKIE in front of Henrik and Kesler, he's the worst coach in history. Yes folks, it's no wonder people laugh at us for being such idiot fans. Somehow it's all his fault when the players on his team don't perform, but when they do, he's not credited with brilliance, it's just the team he has.

And on the subject of Buffalo's game last night, might that have more to do with RYAN MILLER playing unbelievable? I seem to recall that he made outstanding saves on Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne and Ryan in the third period when they were getting outshot badly.