Can I ask a question from another point of view? First, I, like any reasonable person, thinks Torres should receive a long suspension and I thought Shea Weber should have sat a game. However, my question is, at what point does the players union have a responsibility to stand with the league in putting a stop to this? I only hear crickets chirping from the NHLPA. What are your thoughts?
- 12pack

This was my big beef when Savard was destroyed by Cooke back in the day. The NHL PA went out of their way to make sure Cooke didn't recieve anything and fought tooth and nail to make it happen. How can a union turn their back on the player, a star player for that matter, to defend a guy who was continually is in video after video injuring members of their union intentionally?

I don't care what he has done since, but at the time he was the poster child for what was wrong with the NHL and specfically Colin Campbell. I don't get it. You'd think the PA would be more interested in looking after those who were injured and trying to prevent it from happening again rather than spending all their effort protecting the guy doing it all....

Your argument is duly noted, but consider the contextual argument I put forth in the blog.

Did Hossa hit Torres (late and to the chin) just prior (as Daniel did to Keith—whether you want to admit it or not)?

Had league discipline utterly screwed the Canucks earlier the same day?

No and no.

The Hawks could have lost ALL 5 games Keith was suspended and missed the playoffs.
- John Jaeckel

That's fine John, and I would have been fine if Daniel had received a one game suspension if that is what Shanahan had decided. My only point was that I didn't hear much from Chicago fans when it was Daniel who was hurt. Its exactly as you said "how would you feel if your star player got run"... its an epidemic and every team's players seem to be doing it.

I agree. I think if a first time offender makes this hit (like Hagelin on Alfie)...people are talking 2 or 3 games. It was a definite charge and it was certainly late, but I agree Keith's is worse. Also, someone said unofficial reports are broken jaw? I didn't see any contact to the jaw or face in real time...it looked shoulder to chest...but I suppose thats why they have the discipline process, so they can view all the angles and all that stuff.
- anawrocki

Have not heard jaw. Concussion and other, possibly more serious injury below the head. His season is likely over.

I was told Bettman and Fehr were both together at the game last night.

BTW, my early info. on Hossa is not good.
- John Jaeckel

Can you give us anymore JJ?

Very similar to the James Neal hit on Couturier. Only difference is Couturier didn't leave on a stretcher. I guess if Torres claims he tried to avoid the hit, he'll get off too?

This is what happens when discipline is based solely (at least it seems that way. who the (frank) knows for sure) on the injury. The injury is just the result of the play. The play itself (blatant headhunting) needs to be identified and punished.

I was told Bettman and Fehr were both together at the game last night.

BTW, my early info. on Hossa is not good.
- John Jaeckel

unofficial thirdmanin blog stated broken jaw....

I am 100% calm....

Torres took a running start, jumped and plowed his shoulder into Hossa's head. Completely different plays and one was monumentally more dirty than the other.
- CaptainBlackhawk

I disagree for two reasons. (And lets be clear from the start that I'm not defending Torres I think he should be suspended)

First: The hit could have been a clean hit, torres made it dirty. There is no way the Keith elbow could be clean.

Second: The Torres hit was .4 seconds late ish, I could be wrong but I don't think sedin even touched the puck.

Are suspensions meant to punish, deter or both?

Apparently Torres is not dissuaded from this nonsense despite multiple suspensions - give him 25 games.
- dawgzhouse

I like the way you think.

Dude, someone DID and he got 2 and 10!!
- John Jaeckel

the awful thing that is happening now, is no-name guys like torres and carkner, are being dressed to head-hunt. who cares if these guys are suspended? Also, the officiating has been pisspoor, retribution gets penalized ie dubinsky kicked out of game 2 and your guy getting a 10 for sticking up for his guy.

I will tell you, and it might not come as a total surprise, this was escalated to Bettman last night.

And there are going to be serious consequences, if not now, then later.
- John Jaeckel

Mark my words here. Player suspensions will be a MAJOR contention point of the next CBA (which is this summer). If what has been posted on John's blogs before is true, Shanny is just a puppet master for the greater NHL execs & GMs.

I'd be interested to see what stance the players association takes on this. Do they protect the aggressor or the victim? Seems like the GMs have been pawning for less "impactful" suspensions... and they are getting it. Unless of course you are a non-star player... then anything goes it seems.

The real issue here isn't the supplemental discipline IMO. It's the fact that players are taking advantage of the chaos that happens in a hockey game. If you give the war room in Toronto the ability to call down to the officials in a game and assess penalties, a lot of this nonsense is dealt with in game... and most importantly... the offending team is properly penalized.

I might get smoked here for being a little too "big brother", but if you are going to keep the instigator rule in place, you have to give the officials a little help when something like this happens. It's insane that the 'hawks were shorthanded after all was said and done.

The see no evil Coyotes claimed the 5th. Tippett claimed he has to see the video...looked ok to him. Doan or Vrbada gets run like that....I suspect their vision would have been lazer sharp 20/20.
- bogiedoc

I'm sure the same reaction Chicago had on the Sedin hit, Vancouver had on the Torres hit from last year, the same reaction Nashville had on the Weber incident, etc etc

I understand that's what they have to say but eventually someone will be seriously injured and it will be on the players, not Bettman.

That's fine John, and I would have been fine if Daniel had received a one game suspension if that is what Shanahan had decided. My only point was that I didn't hear much from Chicago fans when it was Daniel who was hurt. Its exactly as you said "how would you feel if your star player got run"... its an epidemic and every team's players seem to be doing it.
- Slacker

I will also add, without the Shaw thing the same day, it would be easier to accept. The two combined really speak to a system that is broken from the ice up to Bettman.

How is this clown Torres still in the league? His late hit/cheap shot on Jumbo last year in the WCF separated Joe's shoulder, if he wasn't 6'4" Torres would have hit his jaw too, like Hoss.

Of all the guys to go after with a blatant late hit to the face you go after Marian (frank)ing Hossa?!?!?!?

That guy is nothing but a pure beautician in this league. Nobody deserves to be hit like that, but it's super sad to see it happen to a guy like Hoss.

Hawk fans I can understand the frustration. The Shaw thing is what it is, you guys are under-reacting to the hit (naturally as fans) and the league over-reacted to it. He should have received 1 game, not 3.

Torres better get 5 games at the MINIMUM!!!

the awful thing that is happening now, is no-name guys like torres and carkner, are being dressed to head-hunt. who cares if these guys are suspended? Also, the officiating has been pisspoor, retribution gets penalized ie dubinsky kicked out of game 2 and your guy getting a 10 for sticking up for his guy.
- cnugget99

We agree

I disagree for two reasons. (And lets be clear from the start that I'm not defending Torres I think he should be suspended)

First: The hit could have been a clean hit, torres made it dirty. There is no way the Keith elbow could be clean.

Second: The Torres hit was .4 seconds late ish, I could be wrong but I don't think sedin even touched the puck.
- Cfser

Most of us agreed that Keith's hit was a cheap shot and worthy of a suspension.

In his long career, giving him even the benefit of the doubt, Torres has displayed a habitual recklessness that has resulted in several suspensions and penalties. The NHL dealt with a similar player last year in Matt Cooke, who was suspended for the final 10 games of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs. This season, Cooke has been a changed player -- still effective, but within control. Cooke is, for one season, reformed.

Torres is out of control and the NHL can try to reform him with a similar penalty. He should be suspended for ten games, and any games that are not covered by the playoffs will carry into next season.

As for the officiating and rulings in this series, the wheel of justice has landed solely in the Yotes' favor -- the Blackhawks have lost Shaw for 3 games plus a game misconduct, and Hossa for most of one game and until we hear otherwise. The Coyotes have not lost anyone on the controversial plays.

I know Weber should have probably gotten a game for what he did, but Weber's actions are no where near any of these other hits JJ. While Weber's headlock/facesmash looked bad, there is no way he could have done half the damage that some of these hits are doing. This garbage about Zetterburg helmet being cracked in two places is complete BS. Weber had no momentum on the play. I have no doubt it hurt Z, but lets stop comparing that play to plays like the Torres/Hossa play.
- PoileRulezzzYo

I don't disagree, but the point is Weber should have gotten a game, but didn't. The league had a chance to set the bar after the Weber incident, and they did.

And look what's happened since.

Have not heard jaw. Concussion and other, possibly more serious injury below the head. His season is likely over.
- John Jaeckel

I'm sure we'll get the really story as to how hurt Hossa really is after the Hawks are out of the playoffs.

Hopefully we are not out of it yet.

How is this clown Torres still in the league? His late hit/cheap shot on Jumbo last year in the WCF separated Joe's shoulder, if he wasn't 6'4" Torres would have hit his jaw too, like Hoss.

Of all the guys to go after with a blatant late hit to the face you go after Marian (frank)ing Hossa?!?!?!?

That guy is nothing but a pure beautician in this league. Nobody deserves to be hit like that, but it's super sad to see it happen to a guy like Hoss.

Hawk fans I can understand the frustration. The Shaw thing is what it is, you guys are under-reacting to the hit (naturally as fans) and the league over-reacted to it. He should have received 1 game, not 3.

Torres better get 5 games at the MINIMUM!!!
- mxgsfmdpx

I felt Shaw was in the wrong. I would have thought one was too much (honestly), but I think I and most fans here would not have had nearly as much issue with it.

Not trolling and I think there definitely should be a suspension but I don't see this hit as being as bad as the Keith elbow.
- Cfser

This!

Again, not trying to troll here, just my assessment as an impartial observer.

Daniel Sedin is still out from that intentional elbow and it may have cost them their playoffs for this year. Keith? he got a nice rest for the last few regular season games that really didnt mean anything, and was back in time for the playoffs.

I am also having a hard time seeing the reasons why the Torres hit was the catastrophe many are making it out to be. was it late? maybe a bit, but it is a fast game. Hossa had just played the puck, from what I saw, so he was fair game for a second or two. It was not a blind side hit, it was head on. contact with the head was made, but it wasn't a flying elbow, it was shoulder. this is one of the key components, but heads are hit all the time in bodychecks, that doesnt mean you suspend the guy every time.

the biggest issue is torres leaving his feet. there is no doubt he did come off the ice, but as the snow from his skates shows, he was in the process of stopping. maybe it was to launch himself, maybe it was to lessen the impact (not likely, but still a possibility).

Hossa was facing Torres, and should have seen the hit coming. not to blame him for his injury, but having just played the puck, you have to expect a hit, especially when you know a guy like Torres is on the ice.

My thought is that given the evidence of a charge, and no penalty on the play, I would say a 1-2 game suspension (these are playoff games remember!) at most would be suitable. I would also not be surprised if no suspension was levied.

Given that they carted him off on a stretcher, and that shanahan is apparently drawing the number of games from a hat now, your guess is as good as mine.

That's fine John, and I would have been fine if Daniel had received a one game suspension if that is what Shanahan had decided. My only point was that I didn't hear much from Chicago fans when it was Daniel who was hurt. Its exactly as you said "how would you feel if your star player got run"... its an epidemic and every team's players seem to be doing it.
- Slacker

I might be wrong, but I believe that fans didn't so much want Sedin suspended as they wanted to see ref call him on the elbow right then and there. Without calling him on the elbow, which we can all agree was an elbow, Keith felt he needed to reply. This is part of the issue in the league, if the refs keep bumbling through games missing this and missing that, players are starting to take it into their own hands.

No sane person wants to see the reaction of Keith in their game. No sane person wants to see Carkner assault some unwilling guy everytime he decides what occured is uncalled for.

What people want is for the refs to make the right calls before things escalate but lately I find myself believing the NHL likes things to escalate. To me, thats the real issue.

In his long career, giving him even the benefit of the doubt, Torres has displayed a habitual recklessness that has resulted in several suspensions and penalties. The NHL dealt with a similar player last year in Matt Cooke, who was suspended for the final 10 games of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs. This season, Cooke has been a changed player -- still effective, but within control. Cooke is, for one season, reformed.

Torres is out of control and the NHL can try to reform him with a similar penalty. He should be suspended for ten games, and any games that are not covered by the playoffs will carry into next season.

As for the officiating and rulings in this series, the wheel of justice has landed solely in the Yotes' favor -- the Blackhawks have lost Shaw for 3 games plus a game misconduct, and Hossa for most of one game and until we hear otherwise. The Coyotes have not lost anyone on the controversial plays.
- Jam16sugar

I believe it was Carcas who posted this last night.

http://www.nhlwheelofjustice.com/

I felt Shaw was in the wrong. I would have thought one was too much (honestly), but I think I and most fans here would not have had nearly as much issue with it.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed. the shaw suspension was horrendous also. 1 game max.

2 things... I'm not against the Shaw suspension I just hate how it compared to Neil and Lucic.. 3 might of been a little excessive but he clearly went at smith with intent.
2)I've hated Torres since he played in Buffalo. I'm not sure that hit was that late as you're allowed to finish your check. But it was extremely dirty and had clear intent to injure. He needs a minimum 10 games.

In his long career, giving him even the benefit of the doubt, Torres has displayed a habitual recklessness that has resulted in several suspensions and penalties. The NHL dealt with a similar player last year in Matt Cooke, who was suspended for the final 10 games of the regular season and the first round of the playoffs. This season, Cooke has been a changed player -- still effective, but within control. Cooke is, for one season, reformed.

Torres is out of control and the NHL can try to reform him with a similar penalty. He should be suspended for ten games, and any games that are not covered by the playoffs will carry into next season.

As for the officiating and rulings in this series, the wheel of justice has landed solely in the Yotes' favor -- the Blackhawks have lost Shaw for 3 games plus a game misconduct, and Hossa for most of one game and until we hear otherwise. The Coyotes have not lost anyone on the controversial plays.
- Jam16sugar

There is no official word, but based on what I am hearing, Hossa is done for the year. Long term is the larger issue.