WTF?

Gagner is easily worth a mid range first round pick... Stewart the same.
- Zombie

I don't know that I've ever heard of Gagner for mid first discussion that wasn't completely shot down in a chorus of disagreement. I wouldn't trade Gagner for a late first, an early 2nd and a throw-in right now, but I think that's closer to what you'd get for him.

As for Stewart, there is a reason for the Blues to trade him right now, so they might take that package.

By the time he was on waivers, we had managed to lower his value to... very, very low. Remember how happy we were to get him? Remember how well he played when he wasn't injured or hating the guy signing his paycheque? Remember the embarassingly pathetic soap opera that was the whole "Souray vs Oilers management" squabble?
Sad to see any team get a very valuable player and then manage to lower his value to nothing. Worse to see my team do it.
I'm not saying I think Souray was in the right by any stretch... I'm just saying when we got him he was valuable, and we couldn't give the guy away by the end of it. That is partly Souray's fault, but you've gotta think a competent GM would have gotten something, anything, for him, rather than getting a distraction and an embarassment to the franchise.
- thefullnelson

Then we'd have people complaining that all we got for him was picks and prospects as most did with Pronger, although now people don't complain because that resulted in Smid and Eberle.

ST and Lowe were trying to do the opposite of what they did with Pronger and it still back fired.

WTF?

Gagner is easily worth a mid range first round pick... Stewart the same.
- Zombie

Stewart isn't getting you that.

A good Penner got a 19th a third and a potential bottom pairing d-man.

I don't know that I've ever heard of Gagner for mid first discussion that wasn't completely shot down in a chorus of disagreement. I wouldn't trade Gagner for a late first, an early 2nd and a throw-in right now, but I think that's closer to what you'd get for him.

As for Stewart, there is a reason for the Blues to trade him right now, so they might take that package.
- Morris

That's because 99.999% of fans are idiots that don't understand the low success rate of draft picks and that production is more important then size.

Stewart isn't getting you that.

A good Penner got a 19th a third and a potential bottom pairing d-man.
- Lahey

I think you helped prove my point, 100 games of Penner on pace for 50 points landed a first ++

Stewarts RFS rights would easily be worth that.

I'll tell you one thing, you wont get him for the table scraps most people are offering.

I think you helped prove my point, 100 games of Penner on pace for 50 points landed a first ++

Stewarts RFS rights would easily be worth that.

I'll tell you one thing, you wont get him for the table scraps most people are offering.
- Zombie

You know my proposals were satirical right?

I think you helped prove my point, 100 games of Penner on pace for 50 points landed a first ++

Stewarts RFS rights would easily be worth that.

I'll tell you one thing, you wont get him for the table scraps most people are offering.
- Zombie

Dunno about that. That was Penner with a year left on his contract at an all-time high in value at trade deadline time. Chris Stewart is at a near all-time low in value needing a new contract and seemingly has no future with the Blues.

But let's take that as a value for Stewart. a 19th pick, a 3rd rounder and Teubert. How different is that from Pitlick, Jones and a 2nd? Why is that 'table scraps' where the other is fair value?

You know my proposals were satirical right?
- TheTaoOfSemenko

~~

That's because 99.999% of fans are idiots that don't understand the low success rate of draft picks and that production is more important then size.
- Zombie

But seriously though, a low first, a 2nd and a throw in. Isn't that almost EXACTLY what the Penner deal was?

~~
- Zombie

Just checking.

Dunno about that. That was Penner with a year left on his contract at an all-time high in value at trade deadline time. Chris Stewart is at a near all-time low in value needing a new contract and seemingly has no future with the Blues.

But let's take that as a value for Stewart. a 19th pick, a 3rd rounder and Teubert. How different is that from Pitlick, Jones and a 2nd? Why is that 'table scraps' where the other is fair value?
- Morris

In terms or draft picks, I'd say Stewart is probably worth the 19th straight up... maybe a 3rd on top of that.

The issue is that Jones Pitlick and lander are probably worth a 2nd or 3rd, Peckham is probably worth a 3rd/4th and Belanger and Omark are probably worth 4th or 5ths

mid range first >>>>> 2nd + 3rd + 4th

But seriously though, a low first, a 2nd and a throw in. Isn't that almost EXACTLY what the Penner deal was?
- Morris

I've seen nothing we've proposed worth a mid first though, it's collections of far less valuable players.

Of our prospects I'd say only Klefbom and MPS are worth a mid first

Of our roster players, I'd say Gagner, Smid, Hemsky and maybe Schultz are the only ones worth roughly a mid first.

In terms or draft picks, I'd say he'd probably worth the 19th straight up.

The issue is that Jones Pitlick and lander are probably worth a 2nd or 3rd, Peckham is probably worth a 3rd/4th and Belanger and Omark are probably worth 4th or 5ths

mid range first >>>>> 2nd + 3rd + 4th
- Zombie

Pitlick, two years removed from being the first pick of the 2nd round, is imo undoubtedly worth a 2nd. So Pitlick + a 2nd is two 2nds right there. Let alone adding Jones/Omark/Peckham/Belanger/Omark.

How much better is a 19th pick than two 31sts? Last year Toronto sent the 30th and 39th for a 22nd, for example. I'm really confused here about what you're getting at.

Pitlick, two years removed from being the first pick of the 2nd round, is imo undoubtedly worth a 2nd. So Pitlick + a 2nd is two 2nds right there. Let alone adding Jones/Omark/Peckham/Belanger/Omark.

How much better is a 19th pick than two 31sts? Last year Toronto sent the 30th and 39th for a 22nd, for example. I'm really confused here but what you're getting at.
- Morris

After scoring a point every 3rd games in the AHL, I've got a hard time believing Pitlick still holds the value of 31st overall. I'd say he's late 2nd, early 3rd by this point.

After scoring a point every 3rd games in the AHL, I've got a hard time believing Pitlick still holds the value of 31st overall. I'd say he's late 2nd, early 3rd by this point.
- Zombie

He's going around PPG in the playoffs I think. That's what you look for in a draftee, the point where they start to turn a corner.

After scoring a point every 3rd games in the AHL, I've got a hard time believing Pitlick still holds the value of 31st overall. I'd say he's late 2nd, early 3rd by this point.
- Zombie

7 points in 7 playoff games

Pitlick has come a long way and is one on OKC's best players in the playoffs. Don't be a fool and let his regular season stats sour you on him. He had a hard time adjusting to the game in OKC, but once he came around he came around real well.

7 points in 7 playoff games

Pitlick has come a long way and is one on OKC's best players in the playoffs. Don't be a fool and let his regular season stats sour you on him. He had a hard time adjusting to the game in OKC, but once he came around he came around real well.
- Lahey

It takes alot more then 7 games to turn that around.

Either way though, he's not going to be the centerpiece for a good young NHL'er with lots of tools.

Who here trades Gagner for Brock Nelson, Marty Reasoner and a 4th?

It takes alot more then 7 games to turn that around.

Either way though, he's not going to be the centerpiece for a good young NHL'er with lots of tools.
- Zombie

He turned it around in January or February.

Who here trades Gagner for Brock Nelson, Marty Reasoner and a 4th?
- Zombie

You aren't looking at this in the right way.

Stewart is a player who doesn't fit in with STL. He is a RFA that is going to have to be qualifed at over 3.3mil, that in itself hurts.

And if it's going to cost us Pitlick, Jones and 2013 first. Then we just move along. Too much risk for a guy that has had consistency issues.

After scoring a point every 3rd games in the AHL, I've got a hard time believing Pitlick still holds the value of 31st overall. I'd say he's late 2nd, early 3rd by this point.
- Zombie

He was hampered by an injury, he's a contributor in far more ways then scoring, he was decidedly better in the 2nd half and he's a ppg in the playoffs. Then there's the fact that very few players are actually playing professional hockey by their 2nd year post-draft. His performance wouldn't be enough to drop a whole round imo. Unless this is a common occurrence that happens to about 30% of the players taken in the first two rounds.

It takes alot more then 7 games to turn that around.

Either way though, he's not going to be the centerpiece for a good young NHL'er with lots of tools.
- Zombie

Yeah, he definitely has a looooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go.

He was hampered by an injury, he's a contributor in far more ways then scoring, he was decidedly better in the 2nd half and he's a ppg in the playoffs. Then there's the fact that very few players are actually playing professional hockey by their 2nd year post-draft. His performance wouldn't be enough to drop a whole round imo. Unless this is a common occurrence that happens to about 30% of the players taken in the first two rounds.
- Morris

I'll cut him slack due to his injury... I'll start to judge the guy after next season. If he ends up in the NHL, where do you see him playing? 3rd liner?

Who here trades Gagner for Brock Nelson, Marty Reasoner and a 4th?
- Zombie

When we bench Gagner in a season where he plays terribly and is due a raise and we're shopping him, those are some of the offers I'd expect to get.

Although you're speaking hyperbolically, as Reasoner and a 4th are the bottom of the barrel in terms of what we were suggesting.