No one expects Schenn to shut down top pairings...just 3rd + 4th liners like he was supposed to this year...

Near the tail end of the season, a lot of Schenn's mistakes were directly resulting in goals...
- Pen15

Well tell the (frank)ing goalies to stop the puck!

No one expects Schenn to shut down top pairings...just 3rd + 4th liners like he was supposed to this year...

Near the tail end of the season, a lot of Schenn's mistakes were directly resulting in goals...
- Pen15

2nd highest +/- on the team for defensmen. Albeit still a -6.

Just saying, stay-at-home dmen are normally JUST coming into the league at his age. It's clear that they should have left him down for a few years rather than rush him.

Not to mention he's been developed by a run-and-gun coach in Wilson who doesn't have the slightest clue of how to coach any form of defensive system.

Well tell the (frank)ing goalies to stop the puck!
- mykokes

I'll be the first to admit there are a lot of issues with the team, but absolving Schenn because of our goaltending or our coaching is a cop out IMO.

If it really was the goaltending, or the system....then Schenn should've underperformed for 4yrs under the system/goaltending we've had....but he hasn't.

That's why I find it a bit hypocritical that a lot of us are writing Kuli off for one bad year....but Schenn gets to remain the golden child...

Just my two cents.

2nd highest +/- on the team for defensmen. Albeit still a -6.

Just saying, stay-at-home dmen are normally JUST coming into the league at his age. It's clear that they should have left him down for a few years rather than rush him.

Not to mention he's been developed by a run-and-gun coach in Wilson who doesn't have the slightest clue of how to coach any form of defensive structure.
- Juice

He was a -6 playing drastically less minutes than most other defenders AND against weaker players...

And if Wilson's structure is to blame, how come he was able to perform decently for us last year? He was afterall, playing for the same system and the same coach...

2nd highest +/- on the team for defensmen. Albeit still a -6.

Just saying, stay-at-home dmen are normally JUST coming into the league at his age. It's clear that they should have left in down for a few years rather than rish him.

Not to mention he's been developed by a run-and-gun coach in Wilson who doesn't have the slightest clue of how to coach any form of defense structure.
- Juice

I guarantee you that when, not if Schenn gets traded, he'll succeed wherever he goes, then these boards will be filled with posters who wonder why the hell we traded Schenn in the first place.

Anyways, GO MARLIES!

2nd highest +/- on the team for defensmen. Albeit still a -6.

Just saying, stay-at-home dmen are normally JUST coming into the league at his age. It's clear that they should have left him down for a few years rather than rush him.

Not to mention he's been developed by a run-and-gun coach in Wilson who doesn't have the slightest clue of how to coach any form of defense structure.
- Juice

His lack of AHL grooming has caught up with him

I'll be the first to admit there are a lot of issues with the team, but absolving Schenn because of our goaltending or our coaching is a cop out IMO.

If it really was the goaltending, or the system....then Schenn should've underperformed for 4yrs under the system/goaltending we've had....but he hasn't.

That's why I find it a bit hypocritical that a lot of us are writing Kuli off for one bad year....but Schenn gets to remain the golden child...

Just my two cents.
- Pen15

Leafs fans, year after year (with the exception of his rookie year) have constantly been voicing their dissapointment in him...perhaps YOU haven't been, but Leafs fans as a whole absolutely have been. Their expectations are completely unrealistic and many fans want to see him traded because they've already given up.

I'll be the first to admit there are a lot of issues with the team, but absolving Schenn because of our goaltending or our coaching is a cop out IMO.

If it really was the goaltending, or the system....then Schenn should've underperformed for 4yrs under the system/goaltending we've had....but he hasn't.

That's why I find it a bit hypocritical that a lot of us are writing Kuli off for one bad year....but Schenn gets to remain the golden child...

Just my two cents.
- Pen15

I'm not among the group writing off kuli, and schenn isn't my golden child either, but there are many other pieces I'd like to see gone, and should be gone. But if nothing changes, c'est la vie....I'd love to see Nate in a Leafs jersey

Just don't pull a "Tlusty" on us
- JIMI-JAMES

?

Will you also take a home town discount to play for the blue + white?
- Pen15

If I was ever lucky enough to play ont he team I would tell burke to pay me the minimum and sign me for life.

Leafs fans, year after year (with the exception of his rookie year) have constantly been voicing their dissapointment in him...perhaps YOU haven't been, but Leafs fans as a whole absolutely have been. Their expectations are completely unrealistic and many fans want to see him traded because they've already given up.
- Juice

...and if you ask me, those leafs fans are no different than the ones absolving him of his play and making excuses for him. (too opposite extreme ends of the spectrum).

I have my opinion on Schenn, and many on here probably don't agree, but it's just an opinion and one that will simply be proven right or wrong within the next couple years. All I'm trying to drive home is the hypocracy of some posters giving up on Kuli because of his off year....but at the same time making excuses for Schenns.

His lack of AHL grooming has caught up with him
- JIMI-JAMES

His lack of footspeed has caught up with him.. It was pretty easy too

?
- mfreedman

Don't listen to him. I'd be extremely grateful if you pulled a Tlusty and pm'd me with the details.


xoxo

Don't listen to him. I'd be extremely grateful if you pulled a Tlusty and pm'd me with the details.


xoxo
- weirdoh

I'm not among the group writing off kuli, and schenn isn't my golden child either, but there are many other pieces I'd like to see gone, and should be gone. But if nothing changes, c'est la vie....I'd love to see Nate in a Leafs jersey
- mykokes

I totally agree that there's a lot of garbage to offload before we get to Schenn. However, in terms of the pieces we're going to need to bring in (i.e., goaltending, #1c, power forward), I still think Schenn is marketable enough to be packaged into a deal to make one of those happen.

If I was ever lucky enough to play ont he team I would tell burke to pay me the minimum and sign me for life.
- mfreedman

you say that now...

Wait until Berger & UG start critiquing your game....you'll want to go play down in FLA in no time.

?
- mfreedman

Tlusty took a cameraphone photo of his package

He was a -6 playing drastically less minutes than most other defenders AND against weaker players...

And if Wilson's structure is to blame, how come he was able to perform decently for us last year?

He was afterall, playing for the same system and the same coach...
- Pen15

He played well for half the season that year...the first half he was harped on constantly.

He's young, he's inconsistent, he's learning and he will go through ups and downs. A True, stay-at-home veteran dman can play in any style and still be effective...but when a kid Schenn's age is developing in a defense-last system, how's he supposed to stand a chance?

His lack of AHL grooming has caught up with him
- JIMI-JAMES

Definitely.

I guarantee you that when, not if Schenn gets traded, he'll succeed wherever he goes, then these boards will be filled with posters who wonder why the hell we traded Schenn in the first place.

Anyways, GO MARLIES!
- mykokes

For sure...that's exactly what will happen.

you say that now...

Wait until Berger & UG start critiquing your game....you'll want to go play down in FLA in no time.
- Pen15

"I don't care if you make the league minimum and your only bonus was a lifetime cable subscription and monitored cameraphone, you FAIL!!!"

He played well for half the season that year...the first half he was harped on constantly.

He's young, he's inconsistent, he's learning and he will go through ups and downs. A True, stay-at-home veteran dman can play in any style and still be effective...but when a kid Schenn's age is developing in a defense-last system, how's he supposed to stand a chance?
- Juice

Again, I go back to my argument that he's shown long (season long) bouts of consistency under the 'defense-last system' of Wilson.

I personally think his problem is a lot bigger than the system he plays in. Will it help? Sure. But ultimately, his lack of footspeed in today's NHL, combined with his lack of hockey IQ will be what solidifies him as a #5-6 dman in a few years.

I hope I'm wrong...but I haven't seen anything on the contrary to make me believe he can turn it around.

...and if you ask me, those leafs fans are no different than the ones absolving him of his play and making excuses for him. (too opposite extreme ends of the spectrum).

I have my opinion on Schenn, and many on here probably don't agree, but it's just an opinion and one that will simply be proven right or wrong within the next couple years. All I'm trying to drive home is the hypocracy of some posters giving up on Kuli because of his off year....but at the same time making excuses for Schenns.
- Pen15

The one thing Kuli is definitely not...is a first line winger, guaranteed.

The one thing he definitely is effective at would be a 3rd line winger that can fill in on the 2nd line. The potential for the next few years will be that he's a capable 2nd liner but the verdict is still out on that.

I'm not saying Schenn is developing perfectly, he's more inconsistent then I thought he'd be at this point...but I won't be concerned about him until he's 25 and still inconsistent.

I totally agree that there's a lot of garbage to offload before we get to Schenn. However, in terms of the pieces we're going to need to bring in (i.e., goaltending, #1c, power forward), I still think Schenn is marketable enough to be packaged into a deal to make one of those happen.
- Pen15

But why do we need to bring in goaltending and a #1 c this season? I mean, didn't this team just finish in 25th place? I doubt those two additions will make this team a Stanley Cup contender over this offseason. Suck for one more year, draft Nate. #1 centre taken care of......and as for goaltending, lets see whether Reimer or Scrivens have the ability to be NHL starters. Who knows, we may just get lucky and end up with a Brian Elliott story, or in Scrivens case, maybe an Ed Belfour type story. We have nothing to lose by sucking.

"I don't care if you make the league minimum and your only bonus was a lifetime cable subscription and monitored cameraphone, you FAIL!!!"
- JIMI-JAMES

credit: UG