Seriously JJ? I hope you are kidding or you know nothing about the Wings prospects. Jurco, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Tatar, Sproul, Ouellet, Sheahan, Tvrdon, Jensen, Mrazek ect... This is the deepest the Wings prospect pool has been since the early 90's. No i don't think they will all make it but there is a lot of potential there. Brunnstrom was just a one year signing to give him a shot, not someone for the future.

As for the person that compared Jurco to Hudler, well they both are skilled but Hudler is small and slow while Jurco is bigger and faster already. Most people don't compare Jurco to Hudler, they compare him more to Hossa (yes he has a lot of work to do before he is in that class of player and might never get there).
- dcz28

Please.

Yeah, i know something about prospects. I actually get paid to cover them.

And I know that 3 out of 4 don't even make the NHL. And of those that do, very few become stars. Let it go.

You tell me one of those guys who is going to be another Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Franzen. You can't.

I deal with Hawk fans on here every day trying to elevate Brandon Saad to the Hall of Fame. I tell them the same thing. He probably had better numbers this year than ALL of your great prospects. Take your smack talk somewhere else.

if you want to hang on to the dream of the current (or nearly bygone ) era in Detroit. That's fine. provide some proof. I know Pavel, Henrik, Johan and both Niks birthdates.

Signing both Suter and Parise as a package deal might be a good PR move and business move from the standpoint of putting butts in seats. Almost sounds like something the Islanders would do. However I don't know if its a good hockey move.

I know he was up in Rockford for the last couple of games of the season. I don't know if he saw any acton though.

I wonder if they do sign Simpson or not? I would think the Hawks wouldn't just want to let him walk away. I guess the question is do they buy out Richards? Do they re-sign Hutton? What about Salak? is he staying or going? Then there's Johan Mattsson. What about him?

They have only so many slots for guys under the 50 contract limit.
- EKolb13

Mattson could be the best of them all.

1) Al and I want to be big stars on tv together. Doesn't mean it's remotely going to happen. However, with his mellifluous vocal talents, he might make it on his own. Patrick Kane and Kris Versteeg might like to pay together again. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. And Bob Mackenzie has been wrong before, believe it or not. With the dollars involved in signing Parise and Suter, all the teams and agents involved, good luck. It's really more of a pipe dream of a couple of kids who probably don't understand business all that well.

2) But it doesn't matter what fans of 29 other teams think the Hawks should have. The Hawks front office should want to stack the deck like they did in 2010 and win a Cup. Not settle for being an OK team.

3) It's not just me who thinks his contract is an albatross. believe me. Further, again, it doesn't matter what you or I think (although, I believe I am a bit more objective on the subject of Luongo's value—let's face it, all Vancouver fans are getting majorly worked up over how "high" his trade value is).

What matters is the market. Period. If there is more than one team involved, if they each have a strong desire for him, so strong that it overcomes the huge added cap hit over multlple seasons, then his value will go up. Until that happens, it is a contract that Gillis will have to unload for minimal return. You can say Toronto and Tampa will both bid his value up—and that could happen. But until it actually happens, it's all b.s.
- John Jaeckel

THIS * ∞

I'll take a load up to the hilt if it means a good chance at 2 cups in 4 years, even if there has to be a cap-ocalypse in between !!

John, I think you have added all the compelling arguments of how & why with adding Suter.
When people here pooh-pooh my much earlier statements that the Hawks were indeed working this addition out, many thought that silly.

I think the way you will get the early indications of IF this is really happening will be how busy the Hawks are at the draft.

btw, I updated the 211 player Mock with profiles:

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012/

That's because usually to get super stars you have to stink really bad and draft top 3. Then since the team is so bad that drafted them they usually start in the NHL right out of the gate. Occasionally you get a guy like Giroux who is picked 22nd and becomes a star but usually its those top-tier picks that make it.
- Rally_Shots

Exactly.

John, I think you have added all the compelling arguments of how & why with adding Suter.
When people here pooh-pooh my much earlier statements that the Hawks were indeed working this addition out, many thought that silly.

I think the way you will get the early indications of IF this is really happening will be how busy the Hawks are at the draft.

btw, I updated the 211 player Mock with profiles:

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012/
- wiz1901

Thanks Bill.

You guys check out my buddy Wiz' site. He is the maestro.

JJ

Any chance Chicago looks at signing Vokoun this offseason? He still had a good year in WAS with a .917 sv pct and is typically solid and consistent. I know we have both crawford and emery, but one could be sent down or traded. If Vokoun could accept a similar contract he did in WAS, $1.5 per, he would instantly upgrade the net while eating minimal cap space. If you give Vokoun 2 years $3 mil, the MOST cap space he eats is $400k if its him and crawford as netminder (Vokouns $1.5mil - Emery's $1.1 mil) and will have created cap space if you bury crawford or trade him if you decide the netminders to be Vokoun and Emery. You basically have you entire cap space left to spend on just forwards and D while already having upgraded a weakness on the team.

Al I think like most teams Chi should keep away from Suter /Parise go for smaller pieces in UFA





Luongo Tanev 2013 first for Sharp

Kane ,Crawford , prospect , Vancouvers 2013 first for Nash




Nash Toews Parenteau (UFA)

Stalberg Filppula(UFA) Hossa

Bickell Bolland Jones (UFA)

Bollig Shaw Tootoo (UFA)



Keith Seabrook

Hjalmarsson Wideman (UFA)


Allen(UFA) Tanev

Luongo
Emery
- VANTEL

Vantel,

Becasue you took the time I will too and here is what I think...

No BobbyLu unless Scotty Bowman has an epiphany and realizes spending big money on a goalie is an acceptable strategy.

Parenteau....Been there,done that....This bunch doesn't usually go back to the well.

Columbus trade involving Kane won't happen but could help the young guy realize he is lucky to be here rather than in most cities around the league.

Jones...interesting...

TooToo is a no for a number of reasons...

Wideman...Could be a $5-$5.5 mill purchase and might be a PLan B or C depending on how things shake out. If he were to come Wideman would likely be Leddy's partner and Hammer could be somehwere else.

Allen....Maybe an option.

Tanev...You know a lot more about him than I do.

The point is there are other options if Suter doesn't come here...

I still belive he is Plan A.

What I meant to say is that the Hawks would lose offense Bolland vs Kruger. You are absolutely right about the Hawks gaining offense if they were to pick up Staal.
- jhawk159

After I wrote that, I realized that was probably what you meant. Bolland was not bringing much offense to the table last season and Kruger will get better if he stays healthy. I wonder what the point total gap would look like.

JJ

Any chance Chicago looks at signing Vokoun this offseason? He still had a good year in WAS with a .917 sv pct and is typically solid and consistent. I know we have both crawford and emery, but one could be sent down or traded. If Vokoun could accept a similar contract he did in WAS, $1.5 per, he would instantly upgrade the net while eating minimal cap space. If you give Vokoun 2 years $3 mil, the MOST cap space he eats is $400k if its him and crawford as netminder (Vokouns $1.5mil - Emery's $1.1 mil) and will have created cap space if you bury crawford or trade him if you decide the netminders to be Vokoun and Emery. You basically have you entire cap space left to spend on just forwards and D while already having upgraded a weakness on the team.
- FourFeathers773

He had a rough year with injury concerns and was beaten out by an unknown...

I here Vokoun is not going to play in the NHL next year.

Datsyuk drafted 151st overall (6th rd)
Zberg drafted 210th overall (7th rd)
Filppula drafted 95th overall (3rd rd)
Franzen drafted 97th overall (3rd rd)

Or you're just awesome at finding talent and developing it properly...
- fattybeef

This is true too. But while Wings fans want to say I don't know anything about prospects or the great Tomas Jurco, JJ actually DOES know a little something about prospects. And I will tell you that those picks were made when the Wings were scouting Europe much more and much better than other teams. Those days have changed. Holland can't go in any longer and be the only GM whose had a pair of paid eyeballs on some kid playing above the Arctic Circle.Now 20-25 teams have seen him. Huge difference.

I like Holland a lot. I respect what the Wings have done a lot. I lived in Michigan and covered hockey for a number of years. I get it. But I also think that this wild "forecasting" of a continuation of Detroit's dominance after Lidstrom retires and Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen get even older and more injury prone is a little like Hitler moving around non-existent armies on the battle board in the bunker.

Zetterberg and Franzen are very good to great players that come along once a decade or so for a good team. Lidstrom is a once every 30 years player. Datsyuk is a once every 20 years player. They will not replace all these guys at once or within a 5 year span. Anyone thinking that is dreaming.

JJ

Any chance Chicago looks at signing Vokoun this offseason? He still had a good year in WAS with a .917 sv pct and is typically solid and consistent. I know we have both crawford and emery, but one could be sent down or traded. If Vokoun could accept a similar contract he did in WAS, $1.5 per, he would instantly upgrade the net while eating minimal cap space. If you give Vokoun 2 years $3 mil, the MOST cap space he eats is $400k if its him and crawford as netminder (Vokouns $1.5mil - Emery's $1.1 mil) and will have created cap space if you bury crawford or trade him if you decide the netminders to be Vokoun and Emery. You basically have you entire cap space left to spend on just forwards and D while already having upgraded a weakness on the team.
- FourFeathers773

Highly doubtful.

He had a rough year with injury concerns and was beaten out by an unknown...

I here Vokoun is not going to play in the NHL next year.
- Al

Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

Tomas Vokoun has decided not to accept an offer from a KHL team at the present time. He is solely focused on playing in the NHL next year.

Vantel,

Becasue you took the time I will too and here is what I think...

No BobbyLu unless Scotty Bowman has an epiphany and realizes spending big money on a goalie is an acceptable strategy.

Parenteau....Been there,done that....This bunch doesn't usually go back to the well.

Columbus trade involving Kane won't happen but could help the young guy realize he is lucky to be here rather than in most cities around the league.

Jones...interesting...

TooToo is a no for a number of reasons...

Wideman...Could be a $5-$5.5 mill purchase and might be a PLan B or C depending on how things shake out. If he were to come Wideman would likely be Leddy's partner and Hammer could be somehwere else.

Allen....Maybe an option.

Tanev...You know a lot more about him than I do.

The point is there are other options if Suter doesn't come here...

I still belive he is Plan A.
- Al

\

From a Hawk source: ".02% chance" that they'd be interested in Luongo.

Vantel,

Becasue you took the time I will too and here is what I think...

No BobbyLu unless Scotty Bowman has an epiphany and realizes spending big money on a goalie is an acceptable strategy.

Parenteau....Been there,done that....This bunch doesn't usually go back to the well.

Columbus trade involving Kane won't happen but could help the young guy realize he is lucky to be here rather than in most cities around the league.

Jones...interesting...

TooToo is a no for a number of reasons...

Wideman...Could be a $5-$5.5 mill purchase and might be a PLan B or C depending on how things shake out. If he were to come Wideman would likely be Leddy's partner and Hammer could be somehwere else.

Allen....Maybe an option.

Tanev...You know a lot more about him than I do.

The point is there are other options if Suter doesn't come here...

I still belive he is Plan A.
- Al

I like Allen. I want size and tenacity on the blue line as well as some crease-clearing ability. Allen is all that. Unfortunately, it seems Hawks management doesn't see it that way. They seem to shy away from those types in favor of more dynamic D-men who can skate well and pass and are generally small (Makes Seabrook even more valuable because of his skill set). But it gets frustrating to see this team struggle with small D men who can't or don't take the body, can't separate guys from the puck and can't stand up to big hits from the forecheck.

John, I think you have added all the compelling arguments of how & why with adding Suter.
When people here pooh-pooh my much earlier statements that the Hawks were indeed working this addition out, many thought that silly.

I think the way you will get the early indications of IF this is really happening will be how busy the Hawks are at the draft.

btw, I updated the 211 player Mock with profiles:

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012/
- wiz1901

This is true too. But while Wings fans want to say I don't know anything about prospects or the great Tomas Jurco, JJ actually DOES know a little something about prospects. And I will tell you that those picks were made when the Wings were scouting Europe much more and much better than other teams. Those days have changed. Holland can't go in any longer and be the only GM whose had a pair of paid eyeballs on some kid playing above the Arctic Circle.Now 20-25 teams have seen him. Huge difference.

I like Holland a lot. I respect what the Wings have done a lot. I lived in Michigan and covered hockey for a number of years. I get it. But I also think that this wild "forecasting" of a continuation of Detroit's dominance after Lidstrom retires and Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen get even older and more injury prone is a little like Hitler moving around non-existent armies on the battle board in the bunker.

Zetterberg and Franzen are very good to great players that come along once a decade or so for a good team. Lidstrom is a once every 30 years player. Datsyuk is a once every 20 years player. They will not replace all these guys at once or within a 5 year span. Anyone thinking that is dreaming.
- John Jaeckel

JJ, great point. I actually had this conversation with a Red Wing fan, I know I know, that I talk hockey with a lot and he agreed with me. The Red Wings scouts found those guys because they werent exactly the first on the scene in countries like Sweden, but they looked and scouted HEAVILY there, more than anyone else at the time, so they had their pick of the litter because most teams just didnt know as much about them as DET did. In the same respect, over the past 10 years, the Hawks have had some of the best North American scouts with pretty brutal european scouts, as evident by the breadth of our drafting. On the DET side, they have had amazing Euro scouts and some down right terrible North American scouts. Chicago hasnt drafted a euro stud in forever, and DET hasnt drafted a North American stud in forever either

Seriously JJ? I hope you are kidding or you know nothing about the Wings prospects. Jurco, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Tatar, Sproul, Ouellet, Sheahan, Tvrdon, Jensen, Mrazek ect... This is the deepest the Wings prospect pool has been since the early 90's. No i don't think they will all make it but there is a lot of potential there. Brunnstrom was just a one year signing to give him a shot, not someone for the future.

As for the person that compared Jurco to Hudler, well they both are skilled but Hudler is small and slow while Jurco is bigger and faster already. Most people don't compare Jurco to Hudler, they compare him more to Hossa (yes he has a lot of work to do before he is in that class of player and might never get there).
- dcz28.
- John Jaeckel

I know a bit about the Wing hopefuls and their deficeits too:

Jarnrok is never gonna be fast.
Sproul has footwork issues too,
Ouellet is never gonna stop any attacker PERIOD!,
Mrazek is very hot & cold and is not very good up top even when he is good down low.
Tatar is more quick than fast, and not a puck pursuit guy or a guy who wins on the wall, but does set up teammates with first step quickness
Sheahan has definite upside if he can start building his offensiev game,
Mark Tvrdon has a wicked wrister, good hands, and impressive strength to go with his size, but again needs a couple steps to get going.
and yes, Tomas Jurco DOES have upside...but don't you wonder why so mnay NHL teams passed on him and he lasted until middle second?
His defensive game is almost non-existent and he is really not strong or thick- granted these are long-term issues that time and commitment can resolve...if the kid has the commitment.
and the only true comparison of Hossa to Jurco is their both Slovakians.
Die-hard fans spend much of their free time trying to "fit" their homer teams prospects into the parent club with rose-colored glasses. It remains more difficult to WAIT until the prospect is in camp and shows similarities.

John, I think you have added all the compelling arguments of how & why with adding Suter.
When people here pooh-pooh my much earlier statements that the Hawks were indeed working this addition out, many thought that silly.

I think the way you will get the early indications of IF this is really happening will be how busy the Hawks are at the draft.

btw, I updated the 211 player Mock with profiles:

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012/
- wiz1901

Hey Bill,

I'm thinking for the first time in forever there actually might be a good chance the #1 pick is traded.

Your thoughts?

Allan Walsh ‏@walsha

Tomas Vokoun has decided not to accept an offer from a KHL team at the present time. He is solely focused on playing in the NHL next year.
- FourFeathers773

Didn't know it was from his agent...But there you go.

I like Allen. I want size and tenacity on the blue line as well as some crease-clearing ability. Allen is all that. Unfortunately, it seems Hawks management doesn't see it that way. They seem to shy away from those types in favor of more dynamic D-men who can skate well and pass and are generally small (Makes Seabrook even more valuable because of his skill set). But it gets frustrating to see this team struggle with small D men who can't or don't take the body, can't separate guys from the puck and can't stand up to big hits from the forecheck.
- Kentxo

I have heard many times and again recently....In Chgo the preference is not for size on the blueline but rather mobility.

Please.

Yeah, i know something about prospects. I actually get paid to cover them.

And I know that 3 out of 4 don't even make the NHL. And of those that do, very few become stars. Let it go.

You tell me one of those guys who is going to be another Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Franzen. You can't.

I deal with Hawk fans on here every day trying to elevate Brandon Saad to the Hall of Fame. I tell them the same thing. He probably had better numbers this year than ALL of your great prospects. Take your smack talk somewhere else.

if you want to hang on to the dream of the current (or nearly bygone ) era in Detroit. That's fine. provide some proof. I know Pavel, Henrik, Johan and both Niks birthdates.
- John Jaeckel

Oh snap

I know a bit about the Wing hopefuls and their deficeits too:

Jarnrok is never gonna be fast.
Sproul has footwork issues too,
Ouellet is never gonna stop any attacker PERIOD!,
Mrazek is very hot & cold and is not very good up top even when he is good down low.
Tatar is more quick than fast, and not a puck pursuit guy or a guy who wins on the wall, but does set up teammates with first step quickness
Sheahan has definite upside if he can start building his offensiev game,
Mark Tvrdon has a wicked wrister, good hands, and impressive strength to go with his size, but again needs a couple steps to get going.
and yes, Tomas Jurco DOES have upside...but don't you wonder why so mnay NHL teams passed on him and he lasted until middle second?
His defensive game is almost non-existent and he is really not strong or thick- granted these are long-term issues that time and commitment can resolve...if the kid has the commitment.
and the only true comparison of Hossa to Jurco is their both Slovakians.
Die-hard fans spend much of their free time trying to "fit" their homer teams prospects into the parent club with rose-colored glasses. It remains more difficult to WAIT until the prospect is in camp and shows similarities.
- wiz1901

2011-12 stats:

(same or similar leagues)

Brandon Saad 44GP 34G 42A 76P
Marek Tvrdon 60GP 31G 43A 74P

Tomas Jurco 48GP 30G 38A 68P
Philip Danault 62GP 18G 53A 71P

Tomas Tatar 76GP 24G 34A 58P
Brandon Pirri 66GP 23G 33A 56P

Sproul? Stephen Johns and Adam Clendening (especially) might be better prospects.

Mursak? Dunno, I think a lot of GMs might go for Mark McNeill.

All the rest of Detroit's guys? Chicago has a number of first and second round picks I haven't even mentioned: Kevin Hayes, Rensfeldt, Holl, Simpson, Nordstrom

I actually don't care if the Hawks' prospects are better than Detroit's. I think the Hawks have a lot of good (but few great/can't miss) prospects. Same with Detroit.

St. Louis has better prospects than both. St. Louis is a very young team. The Hawks are a young team. Detroit is an old team, whether their fans like it or nt.

THIS * ∞

I'll take a load up to the hilt if it means a good chance at 2 cups in 4 years, even if there has to be a cap-ocalypse in between !!
- blackhawk24

Yeah regardless of what specific players they add...

They absolutely need to add a veteran C who can win draws and kill penalties. I would like to see them add two.

Second pairing defender to eat 20+ minutes and help stabilize Leddy would be neat.

7th Dman (preferably bigger guy) who can be a mentor to Olsen / fill in for injuries.

Crawford needs to rebound or they need to ride Emery till his hip falls off again.

The team is super close as it is. A few tweaks and getting lucky on 1 or 2 players would make them viable contenders IMO.